Fighting a big cat...

[tedwca]

Well for what it's worth, here's my experience with mountain lions. My sister runs a big cat rescue facility and she's had everything from ocelots to tigers come through. Her cheetahs did the Mt. Dew commercial a few years ago. If you can't shoot them before they get to you or they are on you this has worked for me. I'm a pretty big guy, 280lbs+, so I can shove the cats around a little. It might not work with a smaller person.

Mountain lions are hardwired for quadrupeds and are unsure of how to deal with bipeds. If you read most of the reports of attacks the victim is bent over tying their shoes, riding a bike, etc. This mimics the posture of a quadruped and the cat knows where the neck is and how to kill.

In my experience I've wrestled two declawed mountain lions(they were playing) and I've noticed a couple things they both did. They will stand on their back legs and put their front paws on your shoulders. If you grab one of the paws they will bite that arm and their weight pulls you forward. At this point they transition to trying to get your neck, because you are net over. I suspect that they would try to climb you if you didn't get the front paws off and start kicking with the back feet. The best thing to do is to kick them away from you. Put your foot on their belly and shove it away(I suppose you could stab it in the chest as well if you don't bend over). Then be aggressive to them. Run at them yelling. This is not normal prey behavior and they don't like it and will likely run. If the cat has decided to engage, the only thing I've found that works short of killing them is a fire extinguisher.

I want no part of a cat with claws. Actually, I want no part of a wild cat unless I'm armed and see it coming.

Here's me and the Mt. Dew cheetahs and a picture of Apache the resident cougar(Mt. Lion)

 

[mmmotorcycle]

My Rd-4 could do some serious damage to a big cat. In all likely hood I'd probably be dead before I knew it.

 

[mmmotorcycle]

Well for what it's worth, here's my experience with mountain lions. My sister runs a big cat rescue facility and she's had everything from ocelots to tigers come through. Her cheetahs did the Mt. Dew commercial a few years ago. If you can't shoot them before they get to you or they are on you this has worked for me. I'm a pretty big guy, 280lbs+, so I can shove the cats around a little. It might not work with a smaller person.

Mountain lions are hardwired for quadrupeds and are unsure of how to deal with bipeds. If you read most of the reports of attacks the victim is bent over tying their shoes, riding a bike, etc. This mimics the posture of a quadruped and the cat knows where the neck is and how to kill.

In my experience I've wrestled two declawed mountain lions(they were playing) and I've noticed a couple things they both did. They will stand on their back legs and put their front paws on your shoulders. If you grab one of the paws they will bite that arm and their weight pulls you forward. At this point they transition to trying to get your neck, because you are net over. I suspect that they would try to climb you if you didn't get the front paws off and start kicking with the back feet. The best thing to do is to kick them away from you. Put your foot on their belly and shove it away(I suppose you could stab it in the chest as well if you don't bend over). Then be aggressive to them. Run at them yelling. This is not normal prey behavior and they don't like it and will likely run. If the cat has decided to engage, the only thing I've found that works short of killing them is a fire extinguisher.

I want no part of a cat with claws. Actually, I want no part of a wild cat unless I'm armed and see it coming.

Here's me and the Mt. Dew cheetahs and a picture of Apache the resident cougar(Mt. Lion)

Wow! That's some good advice. I'd never thought of kicking them away.:thumbup:

 

[Horse]

"The cat wont be on my back forever and a Karambit will find a target eventually. A Karambit is also used to embed and open up flesh from the inside.
You sound confident like you fight them regularly"

That is ironic- so do you!

Harry Wolhunter is the guy from South Africa who killed the lion that unhorsed him. His knife looked to me like a 6 inch boning knife. There was an article about this in an old knife digest- maybe from the late 1980's?

 

[kvaughn]

Something dull so it wont hurt so bad when he shoves it up your a@#! Seriously, its hard to stab something thats got its claws and and teeth in your back. Try to be aware of the situation around you and possible ambush points.

 

[inspira]

a poisoned tipped sticker or a scythe. a big friggin scythe.

 

[moonwilson]

Getting jumped on by a big cat would be similar to having somebody throw a couple bags of cement at you hard, and then tossing a woodchipper on top of you- business end first. If it manages to hit you, you're in a world of hurt. Any knife you have on you will do some damage, but your chances of incapacitating a big cat before he incapacitates you are slim. He's got 20 knives, big teeth, a nasty disposition and probably a weight advantage. A big cat is specially designed to kill critters about your or my size. If I were in big cat country, I would worry more about what load I had in my gun rather than what knife I had with me. A tiger vs. a man with a .500 S&W- head to head about 20 yards apart- about an even match, I'd say.

 

[rebeltf]

I've owned a few Timber Wolves.
They'd fight if attacked or cornered but would not protect you.
Now an American Bulldog of the proper blood would kill the cat without much trouble.
In Argintina the Dogos there which IMO are not as tough as the AB have to catch a big cat to prove they're breed worthy.
I saw this AB throw around a 600 pound boar like a toy.
He was the strongest dog I ever trained as 20 years as a dog trainer.
His rear legs were like tree trucks.
He's 120 pound in shape Johnson/standard hybrid.

That is a handsome dog.

I love and respect dogs so don't get me wrong here but , a boar of any size is not a Mountain Lion.
Boars have one hell of a temper but they are as agile as they are cute. ( agility compared to a big cat here )

Also , interesting reading folks.

I think we have to realize here , this would not be a fight between two humans , or a human and a comparativly slow dog , but between a human and a extremly fast , agile and dextrous big cat intent on making you his next meal.

Imagine fighting a 150 lb. German Shepherd , ok.

Then imagine fighting a Cougar wieghing the same.

You'd better hope to survive no matter what you can use to fend off the cat , even if you get a chance to fend it off.

Most canines will give some sort of warning before attack , a cat will not. A big cat is wild and has hunted it's entire life.

I do not think there are many survival stories regarding big cat attacks compared to the stories of partially eaten victims found alongside a trail.

 

[DocArnie]

I've heard that in India people wear masks on the back of their heads, to keep tigers from attacking from behind.


Edit: BTW, that AB really is a beatiful dog!

 

[Vorpal Blade]

Recall the Mt. lion attack on an elderly couple earlier this year in No. Cal. The Wife attempted to stab the lion with a ballpoint pen as it attacked her Husband.

One case where the sword would have been mightier than the pen.

Good one! I like it.

She managed to get the lion off of him but his wounds and subsequent infection were very serious.
Whatever you carry should obviously be accessible. A stout 3" or longer blade would be reasonable. You choose the brand.
Wilbur Smith books make terrific reading. I think the first triology was the best, starting with When the Lion Feeds.
GB

Carl Akeley, the supplier of most of the stuffed animals in the African Hall of the American Museum of Natural History, was attacked by a small, injured, female leapard at one point in his career. It's been a long time but IIRC, it weight less than 110 Lbs and it had an open, infected wound where one of its back claws was missing. The Leopard attacked from the front but missed its leap slightly so that its back legs ended up clawing air instead of almost instantly clawing Akeley's guts to shreds. He threw it down on its back, with his knee in its chest and broke some of its ribs. At the same time, he presented his fist for biting and thrust it past the teeth down its windpipe. The Leopard died by suffocation.

He emerged grievously clawed and bitten, with internal injuries and massive blood loss. When found, he managed to cling to life long enough to receive medical attention. Recovery took the better part of a year.

============================================

John Pierre Hallet ("African Kitabu") killed a big male Leapard with a knife. At the time of the struggle, he was missing his left hand............. While on safari one of the bearers was attacked from the rear by a full grown male Leapard. While the cat was on top of the man, Hallet jumped on the Leapard's back with his legs wrapped around its middle and his arms locked around its chest, under its armpits. While the leapard was trying to shake him off by leaping six feet in the air and coming down on top of him, he dared not let go. Finally, one of the bearers threw him a knife and he dispatched the animal. He emerged without any serious injury at all. He later said the knife was too long and hard to get into position for a stab, but did not give measurements.

============================================

There was a case in South Africa, I don't recall the source, where a man was grabbed by a lioness, shaken, and dragged off by the shoulder. She was dragging him with her mouth. He was not rendered helpless as she probably assumed. With his free arm he managed to draw a sheathed knife undetected and deeply slit her throat with it. The Lioness bled out very quickly without inflicting further damage.
(Edit: I think this came from one of Peter Capstick's books.)

============================================

Presumably, these cases are documented and not tall tales. Carl Akeley's veracity it unimpeachable as is John Pierre Hallet, IMO. The third case is more subject to doubt.

I believe incidents like these are the exception to the rule. Usually, there is some type of wild card foiling these kinds of attacks. You hear about them because they are so truly sensational, (or exaggerated or not true). And dead men tell no tales. At least there's nothing to celebrate. From my reading, most of the time, when a big cat attacks you by surprise, which is usually the way, you will not even have time to reach for your knife. You will be Purina.

 

[Vorpal Blade]

John Pierre Hallet, a Belgian agronomist by training, lived in the early part of the last century. Before his left hand was blown off by dynamite in a fishing incident, he spent time living with the Masai. This was before the British discouraged the Masai practice of killing Lions with spears.

During this period, he lived the Masai lifestyle in every way. During his indoctrination, he learned to hunt lion with a spear and shield. The technique is this:-- The men go out in a group and provoke a robust looking male to attack. The Masai combatant goes out in front and meets the Lion who charges and springs at the last second. While the Lion is in the air, the Masai throws his spear into its heart. As soon as the spear leaves his hand, he rolls aside, covering up with his shield. If any part of the body is left exposed, the Lion can deliver a death blow just before it loses consciousness...Assuming the throw was perfect in the first place. If the throw was less than fatal, the other warriors are there ready to pincushion the beast.

The shields are conveniently shaped for this kind of protection and are perfect for bearing away the dead body of a fallen warrior. The spears are sort of half sword, half spear. The spearhead, mainly for use of the point, is long enough for slashing, if needed. It is straight with a central ridge and sometimes slightly waisted farther down toward the wooden haft. These spears are very mild steel, at best. Probably more like iron. They were not made by the Masai but by another, less fierce tribe which specialized in blacksmithing and traded with the Masai and others.

 

[Vorpal Blade]

Where is Couger Allen?

 

[Jim Craig]

I think the best defense is to wear a thick leather jacket and mount all of your knives to it, sticking out like a giant biker porcupine. Maybe run a current throught it, for the real big cats. Then when the cat jumps you, it will kill itself, and you can feed it to your bulldog.

 

[alco141]

dogs seem to be the favorite food of the cats and alligators, i am not so confident in a single dogs ability to handle one of these walking chain saws.

alex

 

[tedwca]

We used to have a rottie that loved to play with one of the bobcats on the property. They actually got along really well. The dog s about 130lbs and the cat is about 45lbs. When they would play the cat would be all over the dog and when he decided he was done he'd jump over the dog and use his nuts as a speedbag. Seriously!! That always ended the play session, but the dog always looked forward to playing with the cat.

Now, they were just playing, but the cat was so much faster, smarter, and more agile than the dog it wasn't funny.

This is the cat that scared the piss outta me. A clouded leopard, about 55lbs and 18 years old. He had all his claws and his canines are the size of tiger canines(BIG). He was very muscular and hated the cheetahs in the enclosure next to him. He would stagger around like a little old man, until he saw one of the other cats, then he was a cocky, graceful young cat again. I never went in with this guy, the claws are to dangerous.

 

[Horse]

"There was a case in South Africa, I don't recall the source, where a man was grabbed by a lioness, shaken, and dragged off by the shoulder. She was dragging him with her mouth. He was not rendered helpless as she probably assumed. With his free arm he managed to draw a sheathed knife undetected and deeply slit her throat with it. The Lioness bled out very quickly without inflicting further damage.
(Edit: I think this came from one of Peter Capstick's books.)"

This is the Harry Wolhunter event- and it DID happen. Amazing story for sure.

 

[tarmix101]

What reasonably sized and priced knife might you wish to have?

To get back to the original question all you really need Mate is one long, and sharp enough to cut your own throat and save the poor kitty the hassle

 

[greenwoods]

Hello all, very interesting thread.
When I was growing up my uncle George used to trap. A big cat attacked his mule while it was carrying hides home. Uncle George whipped a bottle of beer at the cat,missed, but it exploded by it's feet on the rocks and freaked the cat out enough to let go, the mule kicked him and he fled. So a beer and a mule might be a good thing to have...
or maybe a CS Assegai for frontal dancing and maybe the thick, penetrating blade of a CRKT Hissatsu would work for stabbin a cat on yo back. That is if the cat doesn't run from the crap in my pants...

Mark

 

[rebeltf]

We used to have a rottie that loved to play with one of the bobcats on the property. They actually got along really well. The dog s about 130lbs and the cat is about 45lbs. When they would play the cat would be all over the dog and when he decided he was done he'd jump over the dog and use his nuts as a speedbag. Seriously!! That always ended the play session, but the dog always looked forward to playing with the cat.

Now, they were just playing, but the cat was so much faster, smarter, and more agile than the dog it wasn't funny.

This is the cat that scared the piss outta me. A clouded leopard, about 55lbs and 18 years old. He had all his claws and his canines are the size of tiger canines(BIG). He was very muscular and hated the cheetahs in the enclosure next to him. He would stagger around like a little old man, until he saw one of the other cats, then he was a cocky, graceful young cat again. I never went in with this guy, the claws are to dangerous.

Never heard of a Clouded Leopard until now , looked them up and watched a video , beautiful animal but , I would not want to be anywhere near one in the wild.

 

[kage]

In Outdoor Life magazine a few years ago (probably 2003), they had a survival issue that shared some interesting survival stories. One was of a ranger in Utah, I think, who was on a run on his day off. If I remember correctly the mountain lion confronted him and he tried to scare it off but it stalked him on his way back down the mountain. He got hit from behind and the mountain lion had his head in his mouth from behind, with it's canines in front of his eyes (must of been a very big cat). He pulled out his pocket knife (a SAK I think) and started stabbing over his head into the face of the cat and was surprised that the it didn't let go so he brought down the knife to where he can see it and saw that it had closed on his fingers, nearly severing one of them, I believe (Lesson: if you are using a folder, make sure it locks. It sucks to have a mountain lion attached to your nugget, but severing your fingers with your own knife is just icing on the cake!). All he said was, "Huh" then opened it back up and started stabbing the cat in the face. The cat let go and ran and the ranger hauled butt down the trail bleeding the entire way, fearing another attack. He was amazingly fortunate to get away with his life.

They tell you to be loud and agressive, make yourself look big by opening your jacket or raising your arms, and look as little like prey as possible. Like all predators mountain lions are looking for easy food. Make it hard on them and they may try to find take-out else where.

I think a handgun would be best, and the sound alone would probably scare it off when you miss it out of fear and surprise. A fixed blade would probably be next best, followed by a folder. My Emerson Commander with Wave opens amazingly fast and is short enough not to be in the way, but I would want something with more of a penetrating tip on it. My Spyderco Military or Police would probably fit the bill, but it's too bad they don't have a Wave on them, too.

Anyway you look at it, it's all going to be base on luck. You can be prepared in every way possible but if it takes out your throat from the get go or it lands on you and you can't access your knife, then game over.