Fighting a big cat...

I've given a bit of thought to this. I've had relatives, serious outdoorsmen with lots and lots of time in the western U.S. mountains, mention frightening encounters with mountain lions. One says he actually got leapt at, and, as he tells it, he was bringing up his gun about when it jumped, and shot it. The other--whom I have zero reason to question for his less-dramatic story--got separated from his hiking companions and noticed a mountain lion across a streambed from him, walking in parallel with him for a while, apparently taking some interest. I take from this (and the various other stories of people fighting with cougars) that, stealthy though they are, there are times when one does notice them in time to do something about it. Of course, the times when one does not notice them are likely more frequent. At any rate, nice to have something in hand that one could fight them with, if it's one of those times when you notice them.

Second interesting observation: I've been reading a book on cougar attacks, and I noticed about 3 old-time documented cases in which a person was attacked by a cougar and tried to defend himself with a hatchet or tomahawk. In all cases, the tomahawk defense was unsuccessful--I have never read any account of anybody successfully defending against a cougar attack with a hatchet; there are, however, a number of accounts of successful defenses with knives. My best analysis of this is that a hatchet cuts in an arc about three feet out from the user's chest; that arc is a strip of space about as wide as the hatchet's edge. Anything that doesn't intersect with that arc--or, more precisely, doesn't end up right in front of that arc as it's being created--is going to get a blunt impact from the handle, at worst. Now, cougars--like most other predators--attack straight in, and FAST. If the cougar is a little faster than your reflexes and anticipation (which is likely), your tomahawk blade is going to go through the air behind the cougar, and you're going to hit it with the handle and your fist (if you're lucky), about the time its teeth are around your neck. The details will vary, but you get the basic idea.

In contrast, if you've got more of a thrusting weapon, your target is a little more manageable: if you're a little too fast or slow, you're still likely to have sharp metal pointed in the right direction. I notice that the Masai, mentioned above, use spears and straight swords in their lion-fighting adventures; both of those seem as if they would work well whether one thrust them into an attacking animal, or merely held it pointed in the right direction while the animal came forward. This armchair theorizing is of course only what it is, but it seems to make sense of the limited data I have available from the experiences of others.
 
If I get attacked by a pack of lions, all I need is a single-shot muzzleloader...



...for shooting myself. Those beasts sometimes eat their prey alive, and being eaten alive by stinking, ugly, furry, stupid, big, fat cats is the last way I want to die.


For fighting a cougar or leopard I'd take everything I can cut it's throat with.

For a tiger I'd want a howdah pistol by my side. :)

A mini gun would work too but thats not the point of the thread.

Skam
 
I usually don't fight them I just throw them straight in the cooler or on a stringer. I have seen some boys from Arkansas fight them though but just with their bare hands. Chris
 
Heres a few links to recent mountain lion attacks in the Golden State where, incidentally, lions are protected:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2752128/detail.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16869185/

http://4cornerscup.com/2004/cougar.htm

The bicyclist was probably unaware of the lion until he was attacked. The woman who was attacked after the man was killed was horribly disfigured. She has had numerous surgeries on her face. She lived to tell about it and to her credit, she has discussed it in a remarkably matter of fact way.

Mt. lions usually travel the path of least resistance when selecting prey. A determined stand could turn them away.

GB
 
That brings up another point. A lot of guys mentioned 4" knives. That's not going to do a hell of a lot of good if the thing is on your back, either. Seems the first oder of business is to get it off your back. I really like the backpack idea, especially if you use a pack with a quick release. We stand a much better chance against a cat if we can face it.

Good point! A 4" blade is fine for whitling or, making marsh mellow sticks; it is great for defense against humans too, but as with everything there are limitations to its use. I favor large blades: my favorite knife while in the woods is a hammer forged 10" blade bowie made of 5160 that can literally lop a man's arm in a single blow! I still don't think it is the most suitable for the purpose of defending against a big cut which is trying to snap your neck. Ideally, for this grim scenario I would rather have a 6"~7" blade with an accute point. In such close distances you need a blade that can cause damage even if used over your shoulder and you also need a blade that you can move fast.

One needs to remember that when we refer to blade length that doesn't mean that the entire lenght of the blade will be used; on the contrary only a small part of it will be used.

Make a simple test: put on your favorite backpack while in your home and pretend that you want to stab someone / something that has grabbed you from the rear with a 4" bladed knife. Then gradually work your way to longer blades and stop where it is getting unwieldy. THen go back by 1"~2" and there you are. This is the blade that will be ideal for you to have for this scenario.
 
COnsidering that a bigcat atack will likely end with youin VERY close quarters , wouldn't something effective at getting in and ripping, like a Karambit, be a pretty good option? I also like the retainability under stress.
Now, I don't normally carry a war boar hiking, but if in lion country without a firearm, I just might. Now to find a nice sheath for it.

Exactly what I was thinking. When in a tustle with anything close quarters and without warning you dont have the time or ability to produce large unwieldy weapons.

I still say a Karambit if it is to be a knife.

SKam

The karambit is a weapon mainly for slashing in an arc movement. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to be able to pierce the skin of a big cat which is on your neck from the rear. This is where the karambit will fall short.
 
I usually don't fight them I just throw them straight in the cooler or on a stringer. I have seen some boys from Arkansas fight them though but just with their bare hands. Chris

I am originally from Arkansas (we call them "painters" there) and I always carry a large furball for such emergencies. Everyone knows that cats are pretty much incapacitated while trying to hack up a furball! :D

Codgerrrrrrrr
 
If a big cat jumped on me I would stick my finger up it's butt, I don't have any idea what for but it seems as good as anything.

Codger, that's a good idea with the furball, maybe carry a bag of catnip, throw it and maybe tigger will chase it giving you time to get away. Chris
 
A ball of twine! Yeah! Some super duct tape too. You know how cats hate things stuck to their paws!

We had a story here... last year I think... where an old .... er... mature Codger was jumped by a big cat and got his folder out and slit the cat's throat. Maybe it was a Buck 110 Schrade LB-7 or similar.

Codger
 
One needs to remember that when we refer to blade length that doesn't mean that the entire lenght of the blade will be used; on the contrary only a small part of it will be used.

I know it goes against the new "only carry a small blade" doctrine, but this is what I was thinking. I always carry a RAT-7 out in the woods. I figure the longer blade would allow me to get maybe 3-4" deep into a cat on my back, rather than the 1-2" of a 4 incher. But it seems almost to be sacreligious for someone to carry a large knife these days.
 
If a big cat jumped on me I would stick my finger up it's butt, I don't have any idea what for but it seems as good as anything.

Not like anything else is going to work,:D why the hell not!:D

AALLLL right, now Im gonna stick my thumb up his butt hole, oooHH!! that'll really piss'em off!
 
The karambit is a weapon mainly for slashing in an arc movement. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to be able to pierce the skin of a big cat which is on your neck from the rear. This is where the karambit will fall short.

The cat wont be on my back forever and a Karambit will find a target eventually. A Karambit is also used to embed and open up flesh from the inside.
You sound confident like you fight them regularly.

Skam
 
I know it goes against the new "only carry a small blade" doctrine, but this is what I was thinking. I always carry a RAT-7 out in the woods. I figure the longer blade would allow me to get maybe 3-4" deep into a cat on my back, rather than the 1-2" of a 4 incher. But it seems almost to be sacreligious for someone to carry a large knife these days.

Not to me;)

Anything is helpful in this scenario. I need a pet wolf I think.

Skam
 
Not to me;)

Anything is helpful in this scenario. I need a pet wolf I think.

Skam

I've owned a few Timber Wolves.
They'd fight if attacked or cornered but would not protect you.
Now an American Bulldog of the proper blood would kill the cat without much trouble.
In Argintina the Dogos there which IMO are not as tough as the AB have to catch a big cat to prove they're breed worthy.
I saw this AB throw around a 600 pound boar like a toy.
He was the strongest dog I ever trained as 20 years as a dog trainer.
His rear legs were like tree trucks.
He's 120 pound in shape Johnson/standard hybrid.
47b5dd09b3127cce98548bcd339000000017108AcuGrdu3cNU
 
I need a fat juicy asthmatic hiking partner with a limp and a new pair of running shoes for me.

Skam
 
I need a fat juicy asthmatic hiking partner with a limp and a new pair of running shoes for me.

Skam

Ah, the old "I don't have to outrun the predator; I just have to outrun the other guy defense". I like that one. :thumbup:
 
If I was in serious mountain lion country I would carry a revolver, either a .357 0r .44. When I did surveys in SD we carried them with shot in the first two chambers for snakes. The hollow points for black bears. A attacking cat is going to present a very small target for a very short period of time. You better be a cool calm shot to make this work. My second choice would be to carry a nice hiking staff with a pointed carbide tip. This would keep the cat at a distance. Then a good knife. If you are jumped you are going to get seriously hurt. These cats go ro the head and neck area and the quick kill. Wrestling one like Tarzan would be my worst nightmare.
 
Beautiful dog 1911!

Andros- I think you are right on. My Temperance is a terrific working knife, but might come up a little short.

If 6 inches were the limit, what might be the knife?
 
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