Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

[rjdankert]

http://wikikko.info/wiki/Kirveen_varttaminen


Bob

edit: image link updated

 

[Agent_H]

http://wikikko.info/wiki/Kirveen_varttaminen


Bob

Well look at that. That is an asset of a find there Bob!

 

[300Six]

Fella that came up with the first 'snake wedge' (for want of a polite name) shape and idea must have been quite observant of specific sex organs after having witnessed a pair of amorous dogs trying desperately to separate themselves at the back from 'doggie lock' after coupling.

 

[rjdankert]

. . .The older pictures I can find of these socketed axes tend to have that serious drop to the swell . . .

My question is this: Is this change in shape simply due to a more modern influence based on what we commonly see or is there a reason that the pronounced drop would be a benefit to this style of axe or is it related to the size of wood being cut?. . .

Not an answer, just more rambling. When I see the old pictures and films like this video:

Finnish man makes an axe handle(1936)

"Heritage Crafts Association posted a link on its Facebook page to some interesting films made in Finland from 1936-1939. using an axe, knife, and frame saw to make an axe handle; and using a piece of glass as a scraper."
(link in post #3)

I wonder if that the man in that video might be typical of a lot of people (farmers etc.) back then and might not have be able to afford many tools. The tools used in the video might even be all that guy had. In that case, the length and shape of the handles (and the axe heads) might have evolved so one tool could serve many purposes. Now, as people have become more affluent, they can afford tools designed for a single task or even because they look cool.



Bob

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think that, regarding the short-ish handles commonly seen on these, that it likely had to do with the handle material mandating a somewhat different swing than Americans are accustomed to. With hickory, ash, beech, etc. you can get a nice long "slinging" stroke and these woods will support the use of a long handle without failure. Birch probably forced their handle designs to be shorter and thicker. If you look at Slavic axes I've not seen many on handles much longer than 28" and most are 24" and below.

 

[olli69]

Im not sure if any of you have noticed, but in many cases of these Finnish hafting "guides" it is said that the grain should go sideways and thet the bark side of the tree should be the back of the handle. This would be the opposite of how most people prefer the grain orientation to go.

Here are couple of examples.


This is from the website wikikko.info





Here is a screenshot from the Tehoa ja Terävyyttä video. You can see him leaving the bark side to the back of the blank and done this way the handle ends up with grain orientation going sideways.

Im allso pretty sure that in the Juha Maasolas book "Kirves" hafting an axe is described this way.

The reason behind this seems to be to avoid some kind of twisting of the handle.

 

[Moonw]

I don't know what's the deal with using a piece of glass as a scraper, but it is used in other parts of Europe as well. Sometimes using some water, it may have allowed for the right amount of "finish" some preffered.

And yes, in many places, for a simple man back then affording 10 axes for different kinds of work, as long as he wasn't a logger, ice cutter etc. was a luxury he could not afford. So a single tool would be used to fell, buck and split logs. It did everything decently, while not necessarily excelling at anything. You can still see that in parts of the world where a parang forged by the village's blacksmith, a bolo or a Tramontina is used for pretty much everything.

Your willage blacksmith may profile a bit differently if you wanted an axe dedicated for softwoods vs hardwoods, but most times this was as far as "optimizations" would go.

Besides, back then time was the cheapest commodity, as well as muscle power.

We have it so good today, really.

 

[garry3]

I did notice and the wedge grain running the other way also. That is a good way to negate any warping in a wet haft. Most likely just making the hang more open or closed.
So does the heat from the boiling water dry the wood enough so that a wet, uncured haft won't shrink loose from the head?

 

[garry3]

Moonwalks, that scraper was used all over the world for thousands of years. It's just that they were of obsidian or flint before glass became available.

 

[Moonw]

​

Moonwalks, that scraper was used all over the world for thousands of years. It's just that they were of obsidian or flint before glass became available.

Makes sense, certainly more accessible than fancier tools.

 

[Agent_H]

I wasn’t sure if we’ve had the full video posted here – probably have. He also hangs a wooden hammer and makes a “tree” at the end.

"Ethnological Film of Changes held during the summer in Tammela, Tuusula, Renko and Tyrväässä filming of the old people and the working old time procedures made over six trips including twenty-one different topics, mostly the old and already vanishing folk culture industry. Sakari Pälsi Home Area, Dec 1938."

There is more to the intro but my skills at translation are lacking.


[url=https://flic.kr/p/V8FQ2G]





[url=https://flic.kr/p/V8FQ9A]







[URL='https://flic.kr/p/Wq2mm8']

[URL='https://flic.kr/p/Wq2mm8']
[/url][/url][/URL][/URL]

 

[Square_peg]

You might want to download and archive those videos so they aren't lost if they get pulled from youtube.

 

[olli69]

That video is part of a video series called "Isien työt" There are five parts to that series and in every part there is about 10 or 11 videos like that. That video is fron part 2. Those videos are in pretty much every library in Finland in dvd and i own dvds of them too.
Here you can watch them online.
Part 1 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot.htm
Part 2 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot2.htm
Part 3 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot3.htm
Part 4 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot4.htm
Part 5 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot5.htm

 

[Agent_H]

That video is part of a video series called "Isien työt" There are five parts to that series and in every part there is about 10 or 11 videos like that. That video is fron part 2. Those videos are in pretty much every library in Finland in dvd and i own dvds of them too.
Here you can watch them online.
Part 1 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot.htm
Part 2 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot2.htm
Part 3 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot3.htm
Part 4 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot4.htm
Part 5 http://www.kansatieteellisetfilmit.fi/videot5.htm

This is terrific Olli! Thanks for bringing this all together here.

 

[rjdankert]

That video is part of a video series called "Isien työt" . . .

:thumbup:


Bob

 

[rjdankert]

First half of this video has lot of axe use (from olli69's links):

[video]http://vstr1.nebula.fi/?id=2540020-1252070393&w=640&h=476&fs=1&c=1&r=640&a=1&p=1[/video]

A technique I don't remember seeing before at about six minutes:

The axe is held on one side of a branch where they want to cut it, and hit the opposite side.


Bob

 

[Square_peg]

Good eye, Bob! That's cool.

 

[John A. Larsen]

A friend sent me a whole series of these old cultural films, and they were all interesting. I think possibly another reason for the relatively short axe handles is that First, people were smaller then, second, the trees they were cutting were not large old growth forests, possibly trees growing closer together so a shorter axe handle would work better in a confined area. John

 

[Agent_H]

“Cultural Learnings of Kirves Make for Benefit Glorious Study of Chopping” - (That is how my Finnish probably comes across lol)

First of all, I need to say Olli is a good character.

I don’t know the whole story behind these axes other than their most recent adventure was travelling halfway around the globe from Finland to Oregon after a solid package ransacking at customs stateside.
Hoping he gets a chance to share some background on them with us at his leisure. He is running 10hrs ahead in his neck of the woods compared to here.

Anyway, here is a stash of Finnish kirves. I know axes all do the same thing if they are sharp regardless of where they are from but these are really pretty neat to be honest. A couple of the pictures aren’t the best because of the lighting in my hovel of a shop.



Kemi 12.2 with interesting brand/marking I can’t make out but it doesn’t look like Billnäs or Kellokoski, more like “Kole” or “Kote”:


Kemi 12.2 Kellokoski:


Kemi 12.3 I’m guessing given my impression its overall dimensions:



Billnäs 61.2 carving hatchet:


Kellokoski 15.2 carving hatchet:


Billnäs 61.2 (raised mark) handled:


All of these are outstanding. The handled hatchet is truly a wicked little thing. I don’t think I’d seen these hatchet models previous to our conversations here. I may have but without something to put them into scale in a photo they look pretty much like their larger counterparts. I had to immediately start using it to carve a birch handle for the smaller Kellokoski 15.2. I didn’t know anything about these little ones but they are, for a lack of a better word, surprising. Sharp and accurate would be part of the description I suppose.

To be honest, with all the stuff hanging around here I only have a couple of real hatchets. I primarily use a 6lb maul and a boy’s axe to do most things besides carve. I would consider this an upgrade from the little Fiskars I have used for carving until now…

Olli also mentioned that in Finland that “axe” and “hatchet” are expressed with the same word.

Here is the 61.x next to a can for scale…


After using this one for several hours I think I better understand a possible benefit of the “stepped shelf” hang. They look great and are probably a little more solid when they are hung where the handle tapers to disappearing under the collar. But if you are going to use it choked up for carving then it makes for a nice grip without an abrupt transition.


Personal initials, institutional abbreviation, or double digit numbering?


Here it is for comparison to a model 7 (a full size model). There is a definite family resemblance:




*The handle I am working on has a pretty solid knot in it. This stick might end up not being a handle but rather have one end fitted for the hatchet head sized eye and the other generally fitted for the Kemi eye. This might give me something to temporarily mount the heads on for sharpening or profiling the edges. That might sound like a strange use of time and materials but I find the shapes of the heads hard to grab in a vise without handles - I prefer to do work on the heads off the handles but without a grindstone it might make sense just to have a reusable jig (?) system…

 

[Square_peg]

Sweet looking axes. Not too many of those make it over here. Let me know if you have an extra.