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Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves
- Thread starter Agent_H
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Olli, with the way we hang axes useing dry hickory, introducing moisture into an already wedged handle causes a very predictable result. The wood fibers swell and then when they dry out they shrink to a smaller size than before resulting in a loose head. I have long thought of soaking handles and drying them out before I hang them to see if this did not negate that effect some what. For some years now I have just been sealing the top of the handle and around the head with wax.
I do a little steam bending of wood and it always amazes me that the wood never feels wet after it cools. It feels dry if anything. I think the heat is responsible for this drying things rather quickly. I have never measured the moisture content before and after steaming but I think I have a moisture meter some place. Any way I suspect the hot water may negate the effect of introducing moisture and might help the haft from shrinking should it get wet in the future. And the added benefit of a tighter wedge to start with using heated wood.
I might do some testing this fall.
Garry,a small correction:Wood fibers inside an(american) axe-eye don't "shrink to a smaller size" when they get wet,,they fail,structurally,as in get "crushed",and so occupy a smaller volume afterwards,and that handle is now toast.
As we've established before,with Olli's help,a suomi kirves eye is a straight-sided cone,without a "waist" in there,so that upon swelling,the wood can move out,freeing itself,to avoid being crushed.
WHY,then,these axes get wedged at all,let alone so deep inside an eye,is a mystery to me,frankly...But here we have it...
Square_peg
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I wouldn't.
Yes I believe they fail. A handle that has come loose due to the effects of moisture and drying is a much weakened handle and is surely going to break. Rewedgeing it tight again just buys enough time to finish out the day or maybe a few extra days. At least with high impact tools that strain handles.
Steam bending, boiling water or just heating bending also weakens wood. I have no scientific data to back this up and I know that there are many that will disagree with me on this. The only question in my mind is how much and I can't answer that.
Square_peg
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As a bowyer I trust your experince with that, Garry3.
You're entirely correct,steaming any wood CAN,and often Does,damage it irreparably.
The structure of the cellulose sells is tubular,with intersecting divisions(like sections of the bamboo stalk),the moisture filling these spaces is entirely enclosed,encapsulated by them(that's why wood takes a while to dry).
Bringing wood to a temperature that turns it's moisture into Steam will,of course,burst many of those cell walls...(steam occupies something like 1400 X the volume of water!
.So boiling,vs steaming,is a bit easier on wood,and steaming can differ too,according to it's temp.,and how quickly brought to T.
Kiln-drying can(does)trash wood structurally as well.No kiln-dried wood is suitable for bowery,or luthiery,or boat-building(structurally critical applications,anyway...).....All for the above reasons...
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Here's one I'm working on right now, my first Billnas. I think it's a 12.2 but the model number marking is pretty well worn off, I may try using bluing or something else with an acidic property to help bring the marking out. The main stamp is a bit worn too but it's still visible. Boy these axes are hefty! I thinned the edge out a bit and polished it with sand paper so it cuts like a hot knife through butter. Hopefully I'll be getting myself home (I'm living on campus at the University I attend) so I can snag the birch handle I carved (and forgot at home) to chuck in it and get it swinging.
Well I can certainly come up with reasons not to hang an axe the way the video showed, but I am not one to just discard tradition offhand. That method may not be right for me and my axe design and available materials but I would be surprised if it wasn't the best way for them to do it. Even if the reasons may not be clear to me right now.
That is a beautiful axe Darth. You know I am dying to find out how you are going to hang it.
That is a beautiful axe Darth. You know I am dying to find out how you are going to hang it.
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Cool DarthTaco!
It looks like a Kemi 12.2 but I've found after they are worn some I have trouble telling them apart. 12.3's are pretty obvious when comparing the three.
Have you weighed it to see if you can rule out the general weight of a 12.1?
Like Garry, I am looking forward to your hang. Axes are axes but I get a kick out of these.
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I've not weighed it (I don't have access to a scale here on campus) but I'm guessing 12.1 or 12.2. In hand it feels a bit lighter then my 3 1/4 S&N Jersey head that I have on hand so I'm leaning towards 12.2
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How did they forge such a long eye at billnas? Did the billet start as a large "L" shape followed by punching the eye with a drift and drawing out the bit? Also, did the just weld on the poll?
In the more modern process,yes,pretty much so(i've seen a step-by-step from the Billnas factory,it actually may've been posted above too).
But originally,since the pre-industrial times,just like Lieblad says(T-shape drawn from thick strap,then folded along the long vertical median of that T).
Again,above,should be a video "Wira factory,1926",just like that....
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Thanks Jake, found it
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Lieblad and Jake Pogg already addressed your question but I was in the process of looking back at the thread as well.
Collared axes from the region(s)
Here is a link to a smith currently making collared/inserted bit axes in Sweden. Their site shows each step of the process of making the collar and inserting the bit as traditional Finnish axes were.
http://forgedaxes.com/?p=1186
Another insert bit montage of Finnish axes:
These are from the Kellokoski forge I believe.
I know the first one pictured is Swedish but it made me think of your question. Someone with firsthand knowledge already explained what is in the pictures but the beginning shape looks square/rectangular then to the T or L shape.
Some of this might go without saying but I have a couple of random thoughts that are kicking around in my head with this style of head looking at DarthTacos.
Ive read several places: Jake Poggs input, Olli69, Lepola, etc that the handle styles were kind of dictated by tradition, regional influence, and even family signature. When I first took notice of these axes, one of the things that caught my eye was the pronounced drop in the handle to the swell. This just now made me think of one of Quintons handles (which are really cool btw) that he made that is really quite beautiful that has that type of drop in the handle yet may be related or not to the socketed Finnish axe context in regards to handle shape and length. If I remember right, he commented that he thought it caught up his hand to a certain degree when using it.
The older pictures I can find of these socketed axes tend to have that serious drop to the swell but the newer production handles and the ones that knowledgeable folks on rusknife (Turbo4x4 for example) and Finnish bush craft sites carve out seem a little more reminiscent of the American style in overall shape. I might be off base describing them as American but that is what I am most familiar with.
My question is this: Is this change in shape simply due to a more modern influence based on what we commonly see or is there a reason that the pronounced drop would be a benefit to this style of axe or is it related to the size of wood being cut? For example, less large tree felling and more small wood processing? The collar makes up a good portion of the mass and its directly attached to the handle while the bit stretches out more than a standard American head. I dont want to start a COG/offset fight in this thread but simple responses would be welcome.
I ask because Ive only made handles for two. The first (about 3.5lbs) I really tried to get the swell drop based on plans and examples that are out there and it feels appropriate. The second (about 2.5lbs) was less pronounced just because it felt right. Being as these axes have a lot of forward weight on the front of the handle, an offset somewhere in the handle seems right.
Also, I havent seen a 36 handle on these axes and I wonder why. At 3.5lbs, the American equivalent handles well in use on that length. Do these heads lend themselves to shorter handles due to their style of construction or is it to enhance a general purpose use balance to the axe? Or both/neither lol? I dont picture an easy hang on a 36 where the bit is line and doesnt feel cumbersome. I am just speculating because I havent used one on a handle that long.
A lot of the axes we see pictures of that are handled on new production handles look like they are shaped a bit more like American axes curve-wise towards the swell. Are they just easier to run out on a machine in bulk or did users find that the pronounced swell drop is traditional but maybe they are just as well, if not better, suited to what we think of as a more modern/conventionally shaped handle?
Oh, and some of the axes and lone axe heads Ive seen for sale online look as if they have been sharpened to the point of reaching past the hardened bit to the softer body a bit. If there is still a lot of hardened bit left in there, is it really an issue for a user axe to show this?
Socket axe rambling, apologies.
DarthTaco, please take pictures of your hang along the way
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I plan on it! Should be a fun hang, been a while since I've done one of these collared/socketed axes.
Thoughtful post Agent_H. There seem to be international, regional and local standards for handles but this probably benefited handle makers more than users. Very few experienced axe people will buy a replacement handle that is shaped out of the ordinary or in a length perceived to be atypical.
You get to experiment here! Forum contributor G-Pig (we don't hear from him very often) has been methodical in testing out and comparing various home-made handles on identical heads.
I grew up with north American pattern curved handles but I've since been gravitating more towards straights and lesser curved. These of course are easier to make and they're inherently stronger. The swell drop on axes/hatchets strikes me as analogous to pistol grips on rifles; which didn't become commonplace (ie fashionable) until the late 1800s and I doubt that anyone has ever been able to prove that such a feature did anything to improve marksmanship.
You get to experiment here! Forum contributor G-Pig (we don't hear from him very often) has been methodical in testing out and comparing various home-made handles on identical heads.
I grew up with north American pattern curved handles but I've since been gravitating more towards straights and lesser curved. These of course are easier to make and they're inherently stronger. The swell drop on axes/hatchets strikes me as analogous to pistol grips on rifles; which didn't become commonplace (ie fashionable) until the late 1800s and I doubt that anyone has ever been able to prove that such a feature did anything to improve marksmanship.