Firearm question

I don't post here much, but you guys always seem to have the most reasonable opinions about just about everything. so I end up reading a lot.

To contribute:
I cant seem to find the thread, but about a year ago Ken Cox (I think it was Ken) made a great post on why the best long gun for home defense was a carriage (coach? sorry don't do firearms) gun and not a pump action. IIRC it had something to do with the ease of use in the dark.
 
A shotgun would be a good choice. 12 gauge with bird shot would produce a painful wound for the offender and wouldn't go through the wall of your house and into an inocent bystander as easily as a rifle might. This is important because if you shoot an intruder in your house you are less likely to blow up your favorite TV set in the next room. If you use buckshot it will pennetrate further than bird shot.

Don't overlook handguns either. Simply said handguns are handy. They don't take up room, as there are problems with mobility having a long stock of a shotgun used in a confined space such as small rooms hallways etc.

With that said, it would be good to have both a shotgun and a handgun. I would recomend something like a Glock 10mm and a 12 gauge pump or semi with bird shot #4.
 
Climate matters also - the longest range you may shoot. In a shotgun, birdshot may not do much against a heavy coat at 25 feet or beyond. If range is shorter then birdshot will work in a hot climate.

I own both revolvers and autos. I prefer a revolver for home defense. I don't want to have to think about what I am doing if there is a bump in the night and I am really groggy. Also, I can shoot a revolver better if I haven't been out shooting for some time. If you shoot every week - then use whatever you want. If you can't go out to practice very often, like too many people, a revolver is easier to deal with.

I can pick up a revolver after not shooting for months and do much better than I can with a semiauto, single or double action.

In the revolver - use the most powerful load that you can shoot well. Hitting is more important than anything else.

If I were using a shotgun, I'd use tactical buck in the winter, and perhaps birdshot in the summer. I have a short barrel with an open choke - cylinder. If you use birdshot, then consider something like modified for birdshot. I own a 12 guage pump. If I were buying one for self defense, I'd think long and hard about a 20 for reduced recoil and blast.
 
When it comes to using "ugly guns" (tricked out tacticals/assault-weapon-looking things) There are two things to consider.

One:
There is a strong case to be made for buying the meanest-looking/high-visibility thing you can. The reason is that thankfully most armed encounters end when the assailant is confronted with a gun without a shot fired (ie: he flees). This is why there are about 2.2 million reported instances of firearms being used in self defense in the US every year, but only about 12,000 or 13,000 gunshot homicides including accidents, suicides, self defense, murders, etc. (Klek: 1992).
On the other hand:
If you do have to shoot someone and you do it with something like a "Street Sweeper" or AK varient, etc. you run a higher risk of prosecution.
Thus, I would go with a comprimise: the 12 Ga. pump with standard wood stock. Intimidating, but not exotic or suspiciously conspicuous. You don't want to be sitting there while the DA lifts up some machinegun-looking thing you used to kill an intruder and says, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury ..."
 
I would like to keep a shotgun handy for HD but I have kids (4&2) and I’m not sure how to secure the gun and still keep it handy if needed. My solution has been to keep my carry gun (Glock 27) in a quick access safe in my nightstand. It’s inaccessible to the kids but I can still have it out in 2 seconds. I can also hide the gun quickly if the midnight knock on the door turns out to be a neighbor in need.
 
The esteemed Jeff Cooper has praised the humble side-by-side shotgun ("coach gun") with exposed hammers for this role. They are relatively small for a shotgun, are not particularly expensive on the lower end, and are reliable to a fault. They can also be stored indefinitely, loaded, with no spring tension. Placing it into operation would merely require cocking the hammers. I don't agree with Cooper on everything but I do agree with him on this, and I own such an item myself for that reason.

Another shotgun consideration is that at conversational distances, there is little difference in terminal effect between a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge. There will be a considerable difference in perceived recoil, though.

If you opt for a pump (and this is by no means a bad choice), practice with it. An unexpected visitor in the night can be stressful and fingers grow clumsy with fatigue and excitement. I've seen otherwise skilled people drop shotshells or load them backwards even in relative calm conditions; dropping ammunition is inconveniant, but a backwards shotshell in the magazine tube will take the weapon out of action. "Brass to pinky" should be the mantra and should be practiced until committed to muscle memory.

00 buck and larger are not necessary indoors. I've been hit with birdshot and no longer consider it adequate. Some consider #4 to be optimal. Stay away from specialty rounds and steel shot.

There is some concern about magazine springs going bad if left compressed for long periods of time, even though the spring manufacturers tell us that this doesn't happen. My own experience has shown me that the springs don't mind long compressions, but the magazines themselves (whether boxed or tubular) have a tendency to accumulate dust, dirt, congealed oil and corrosion over time if left loaded which can impair function. Whatever weapon you opt for, consider weekly inspections and monthly shoots to be a bare minimum -- and more is definitely better.

Being skilled with a poor weapon is preferable to being unskilled with an excellent weapon. Whatever you choose, find instruction and practice. Practice should include reloading in a hurry and clearing malfunctions, not just shooting.
 
I have a smallish 16 gage pump that the barrel apparently has been cut down on.
It is just a couple inches shorter than the Win1300 and Mossberg defenders.

I use #1 buck in the 16. It is small, light, easy to deal with moving around the house. I also carry it to the garage just in the event the ass down the street decides to walk his pit bulls off leash again..

In the Win and Mossberg 12 gage defenders, I use #4 BK. Same round I use for Turkey hunting. It will be plenty good for home defense.

I also think that the ratching sound of a cocking pump shot gun is a deterrent.

However, I keep a round chambered in mine. You could be dead in the time it takes you to chamber a round. That chambering a round bit doesn't even work good in the movies anymore. If someone that is serious, hears that cocking, they well could start firing immediately. And why give away your location.

You may well have an easier time with the aftermath should you have to use a firearm to defend yourself if you use a shotgun versus a hand gun.
Depending on where you are and attitudes about hand guns, might be a good reason to use a shotgun.

IF, you live in a mobile home community, I would absolute not use anything other than a shotgun with a light short range load. Damn near any rifle and handgun will penetrate the walls of mobiles. You kill an innocent and your life is ruined.
 
Pack Rat said:
I have a smallish 16 gage pump that the barrel apparently has been cut down on.
It is just a couple inches shorter than the Win1300 and Mossberg defenders.
Click to expand...

Hope it aint too short! You don't want to shoot a bad guy with an illegal gun.
 
I guess I tried to imply it is leagal when I compared it to a defender type. It is still legal. Just shorter than original...

In addition the 16 will lay down behind the table seat cushion next to the door of the rv and be completely hidden but readily accessable. The Win or Mossberg defenders are slightly too long.. So I favor it when traveling.
 
Yah, I have a Winchester Defender 1300, but my barrel doesn't have a couple inches to spare. Like you say, still kind of long, unless you use a pistol grip.
I think these Winchesters and Mossbergs are probably the best HD value going. Around here you can get a new one for a bit over $200 on sale. Used, they're DIRT CHEAP. Lot of bang for the buck .... (sorry!)
 
As one who carried a handgun day in, day out for thirty years,, , you may be suprised to know that I side with the guys suggesting a short (legal) pump shotgun. I have a small number of fairly expensive guns, many of them acquired used in barely used condition, but my home defense (kept loaded) standby is a battle scarred old Winchester 1200 with cut but legal barrel. Rarely considered, for an untrained person it is far too easy to turn a handgun in the wrong direction. At close range a load of 7 1/2 shot will pulverize even a lions skull; however, mine is stoked with #1 Buck (you may not find that size in Walmart).
 
Check out this months (september 06) Guns and ammo magazine!
4 :D Great articles about this topic here on the forum! Different guns authors and ideas! Also if you want a 12 gauge tactical ammo has less recoil and muzzle flash than regular buckshot loads. check into that if it is a concern for you. Hornady TAP is a good ammo choice.
Hell I can try to email some of the pages to you or mail you the whole magazine. :)
 
45-70 said:
Ditto munk.

If you go handgun, I still say that a .38 K frame is the easiest to handle for someone that isn't going to practice regularly.
Click to expand...

I'll second that. A midsize revolver is the simplest and most reliable for a firearm that may sit around loaded for a time. If you can't get it done in six shots you should never have started the fight.

n2s
 
If you can practice with the shotgun very often,there is no question that it is most effecive at close range.
I don't get out too often, and so I use a revolver.

The K-frame is a perfect size for my medium size hands, and it has a fine trigger action. I traded in my Model 19 after many thousands of rounds - for a Ruger GP100.
Whatever you decide to use, make sure that it fits you well and try to actually shoot one to check it out.
The Ruger has a heavier trigger action than the Smith, but that isn't necessarily bad if you are caught up in a situation in the middle of the night...
If you get a pistol - be sure to shoot at least 100 rounds of whatever you want to use for defense to be sure that you get no jams.
Some guns will shoot anything, others won't and are finicky.
My first pistol was a Beretta 380 70s single action. It looked cool, and was a bummer in terms of functining. It started off jamming until broken in. Once broken in, it would break after every 25 rounds or so.
I finally got rid of it. I am not comfortable with a service life of 17-50 rounds after the gun was broken in. I don't think that I put more than 1000 rounds through the gun before I started to get small parts breakage.

If new to guns - get a quality revolver.
 
The anti gunners try and sell the myth that the handgun in the home is a sophisticated tool best reserved for an expert. Not the case. But the decision to have any gun in the home is an important one, and with it comes the responsibility of knowing and understanding the function of the weapon.

IT is not hard to do this. A very little time of serious effort brings rapid results. You can become familiar and comfortable with the firearm of your choice fairly easily, but this is not a box to be put on the top shelf and forgotten.


munk
 
munk said:
IT is not hard to do this. A very little time of serious effort brings rapid results. You can become familiar and comfortable with the firearm of your choice fairly easily, but this is not a box to be put on the top shelf and forgotten.
munk
Click to expand...
If you are going to keep a loaded gun around, presumably you have already considered the notions (1) that you personally are prepared to take another human being's life, and (2) you are familiar enough with your weapon of choice not to fumble under stress. If the answer to either one of these is 'No", then stand by, 'cause the other guy will take your gun and stick it up your a$$. No laughing matter if you or your family is held at gunpoint WITH YOUR GUN because you hesitated. Think about it.
 
Three more thoughts.

1. A long gun will limit your mobility in close quarters to your detriment.

2. You could be surprised and in another part of your house when you encounter an intruder. Better have defense weapons stashed in different areas of your house.

3. Use your handgun to fight your way to your long guns if such an overwheling and hard to imagine scenario occurs.
 
Inquiring mind wants to know; for those advocating a .38 frame - why not go with a .357 frame and load it with .38s oder .38 p+? With a .357 frame, at least you have to option to go more powerful than .38

I dont know much about guns though :foot:

Keno
 
Three shotgun models seem to be mentioned often with regard to home security - Remington 870, Mossberg 500 and Winchester 1300. Is one generally favored over the others, and if so, why? Also, are there other makes/models which should be considered? (I believe Maverick was suggested as an option. Is it affiliated with Mossberg?) Thanks again to all.

Eric
 
richard, the advantage of the 38 would be in carrying a lighter gun and having easier recoil. You are correct in a heavier frame the 38 would be even easier to control and could take plus p. (plus p doesn't really exist...) The smaller Smith frame is considered by experts to be an advantage in concealability and general carry weight.

The 870 seems to be the, 'go to' pump shotgun....and I'm not sure that's fair to the other two. Mossberg is a little cheaper, and if you want to know about quality, recieved a military contract not that long ago. There's nothing wrong with a Winchester pump, either.


munk
 
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