First aid for wounds

J Willy - What about skin stapling for deep wounds? I'm sure that practically no one carries a skin stapler, but I've got a few, one being super small that holds maybe 10-20 staples. I've never used it, and haven't researched it yet, which is why I don't carry it, but I'm curious if this would be a better option to try? Or would this mainly be to close surface issues?
 
I took a Wilderness First Responder course, and everything was tailored to back country situations. We discussed suturing very little with no actually practice.... If it meant life or death (granted these are the most extreme cases, but much of what we discuss here is), I want to be prepared for that..
Your question portends that you don't even know what the purpose of suturing is, namely to approximate the skin with as little scarring as possible. There is NO TIME that it is life and death. NEVER (unless you happen to have learned so much off the internet that you think you can resect a severed vessel.... that's joke BTW). In a life or death situation, you control the bleeding, cover the wound and let it heal from the inside out. Change the dressings often. Forget suturing, you probably would have a tough time just cleaning a wound. New medical personnel NEVER get it right and that's after months or even years of training and after seeing it done properly by experienced personnel.

Let me amend my first statement to this: There is a reason that suturing isn't taught in basic first aid courses, or advanced first aid courses, or medical first responder courses, or EMT basic courses, or EMT intermediate courses, or EMT paramedic courses, or in licensed practical nurse courses, or in registered nurse courses, or in the first couple of years of medical school. Does that make it more clear?

I'm a rusty former military medic with special ops experience and training. I was also a full-time paramedic and emergency nurse. I used to teach at a universty paramedic program and instructed many other EMS courses. I'm a little rusty because I've been out of that field since 95. However, I have had a MFR and EMT class since then. I'd wager I have more medical experience than most. I have sutured minor wounds and assisted with suturing other trauma care in damn near every kind of patient. I have had lotsa blood on my hands (and have the scars to prove it). I would never consider suturing in the field. Why? There is no benefit, yet the risk is large. It just doesn't add up.

If you want to be a pretend surgeon, medic, emergency nurse or whatever, learn advanced airway maneuvers. At least that would be somewhat helpful. I'm sure someone can come up with a field expedient endotracheal tube woven from cedar bark.

Seriously, take an EMT course and learn assessment and basic wound management. You still won't be suturing but at least you have some slight clue about what's going on in an emergency situation.
 
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I'm printing both your posts and putting them in my pack, in the kitchen and in the car. Thank you very much for your time and expertise.
 
can't help but post the article I wrote for the current issue of WW; it seems so fitting here.

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Next time you’re out camping and you cut yourself you might consider grabbing the sugar and pour it on the wound… Seriously!

At our Recent Dirttime event, our Wilderness Medicine Instructor, Brian P of raems.com, suggested you pour sugar into an open wound. Though many people were amazed, others smiled as they remembered it as one of mom’s old time remedies.

the use of sugar and honey on open wounds is deeply rooted into our history. Research shows, or at least suggest that sugar and honey were used to treat the wounds of combatants thousands of years ago.

Honey (Glucose structure)

Bees use an enzyme known as glucose oxidase to make honey. Glucose oxidase breaks glucose (sugar) down into hydrogen peroxide, making it a great anti-septic used to fight germs. The amount of hydrogen peroxide is limited, occurring where the moisture contacts the honey, creating a fine oxidizing layer which literally “rusts” the germs to death…along with dehydrating them.

Honey’s slight acidic Ph (between 3.5 and 4) discourages the growth of bacteria.

Honey is hygroscopic (draws moisture from its surroundings) in nature. Bacteria that come into contact with honey lose their moisture content, through osmosis, to the surrounding honey and die.

The U.S Army Field Manual 3-05.70 Survival

Sugar— place directly on wound and remove thoroughly when it turns into a glazed and runny substance. Then reapply

Bee honey— use it straight or dissolved in water

Syrup— in extreme circumstances, some of the same benefits of honey and sugar can be realized with any high-sugar-content item.”

ScienceDaily (Oct. 19, 2007)— Honey has a number of properties that make it effective against bacterial growth, including its high sugar content, low moisture content, gluconic acid -- which creates an acidic environment -- and hydrogen peroxide. It has also been shown to reduce inflammation and swelling."

ScienceDaily (Apr. 7, 2006) — Substantial evidence demonstrates that honey, one of the oldest healing remedies known to medicine, produces effective results when used as a wound dressing. Scientists performed 22 trials involving 2,062 patients treated with honey, as well as an additional 16 trials that were performed on experimental animals. Honey was found to be beneficial as a wound dressing in the following ways:

Honey's antibacterial quality not only rapidly clears existing infection; it protects wounds from additional infection

Honey debrides wounds and removes malodor

Honey's anti-inflammatory activity reduces edema and minimizes scarring
Honey stimulates growth of granulation and epithelial tissues to speed healing

Sugar (Sucrose structure)

In 1976, Herszage and Montenegro of Argentina used ordinary sugar to treat the
wounds of two patients with post-surgical necrotic cellulitis.

In 1980 Herszage and Montenegro reported the use of sugar paste in 120 infected wounds and recorded a cure rate of 99.2%. It was observed that odor and secretion began to diminish within 24 hours and disappeared totally after 72 to 96 hours of treatment.

In 1985, Trouillet et al used commercially available granular sugar to treat 19 patients with acute mediastinitis (infection in the middle of the chest cavity) after heart surgery. After an average of 7.6 days of treatment, eradication of bacterial infection was noted along with the granulation of tissue

Sugar, like honey, is hygroscopic and through osmosis kills bacteria. To use you place it directly on wound. When the sugar on the wound begins to liquefy and turns into a glazed runny substance, it is losing its hygroscopic ability along with its bacteria killing osmotic pressure. Clean thoroughly and reapply sugar. This may have to be repeated several times.

Unlike honey however, sugar doesn’t have the benefits of bees to create the disinfectant hydrogen peroxide. It also does not have the viscosity of honey which may make it difficult to keep the healing properties of sugar packed into the wound. Fortunately, there is a way to make a gel like sugary substance that does contain a disinfectant.

Sugardine (SugarDyne is patented to SugarDyne Pharmaceuticals of Greenville MS)

Horse owners have undoubtedly heard of “sugardine”, if they’ve ever had to treat their horse for thrush.

Unlike using sugar in certain wounds, “sugardine” Because of the paste is easily packed into a wound and stays there. It also has the added benefit of an antimicrobial.

To make “sugardine”, mix about 80% white table sugar with 20% of 10% povidone or betadine to form a paste
Stronger solutions than 10% povidone or betadine have been found fatal when more than 30% of a person’s intact skin was painted with the solution. And using tincture of Iodine may cause toxicity if applied to burns or large wounds.

A standard field treatment is to first control the bleeding (usually by direct pressure), debride (remove dead or dying tissue), flush the wound, place sugar into the wound and cover with a povidone soaked light dressing

Caution should be used with sugar placed directly on a “bleeding” wound as its hygroscopic ability may cause more bleeding

Finally!

The use of any of these treatments is in no way a replacement for seeking professional medical attention. The purpose of this article is to provide the reader with information on things that have been and are being done to treat certain injuries.
 
Yet again, incredible post brother! I'm the "doctor of the family" so all of this stuff is right up my alley.
 
another awesome post J...:thumbup::thumbup: this is extremely valuble info. for just about everyone... keep them coming bro...:)
 
I'll chime in, some of this has already been stated, but can bear repeating:

Bleeding - pressure, pressure, pressure. For small wound, the best device is your finger - apply narrow pressure to the spot, right where it is bleeding - scale it up for larger wounds. Hold that pressure for 10-15 minutes. Don't look at it. The vast majority of wounds will have clotted by the time the 15 minutes is up. If it is still bleeding, hold more pressure, for longer. I have stopped plenty of arterial bleeding with just a finger & patience. Once the bleeding has stopped, apply a dressing to the area - some vessels (small arteries in particular) can exhibit enough vasospasm to temporarily stop bleeding, only to reopen later - so you need to monitor the wound. If the person has taken aspirin, or other antiplatelet /anticoagulant medications - be prepared to hold pressure for a long time (30-45 minutes is not uncommon). If you can't hold pressure that long, place a pressure dressing - the new military dressings are pretty darn good, and worth adding to a kit. Head wounds bleed a lot - expect it - there is an anatomical reason for it (blood vessels in the scalp are trapped within a tough layer of tissue, they cannot contract or spasm easily, and they therefore stay open much longer, causing more blood loss. There are roles for tourniquets, mainly in amputation, and uncontrollable bleeding.


Suturing in the field is generally not a good idea. There are exceptions, but the wilderness med guys will tell you clean, cover (some advocate a dilute betadine dressing), and transport. The only reason I could see to close a wound w/ sutures or staples, is if not doing so will hinder you getting to help - that's a pretty rare circumstance.

Pouring superglue into a wound is not smart. Does it work - sometimes. You can usually get away w/ using it on small, superficial wounds. Even the medical grade superglues have a fairly narrow range of uses. I know everyone here has probably used superglue on cuts (all of which would probably have healed without it) - I've done it to seal small paper cuts before going into the OR, but it's not the safe choice for wound care.

But back to suturing - it does several things - it can align tissues & restore function (arteries/veins/nerves/tendons,etc...) it speeds/promotes the healing process (basically by closing the distance that new tissue has to bridge & eliminating dead space where infection can get a foothold), and it gives a better scar.

In a field environment, I would advocate either approximating w/ steri-strips (after irrigating/debriding) or packing the wound open w/ moistened gauze. Trying to sew up a wound in grossly contaminated environment is an invitation to infection. I can guarantee you that you will have a contaminated wound. Cellulitis/necrotizing fasciitis/septicemia are real concerns when injuries occur in the field. If untreated, they can lead to loss of limb and/or life. Clean it (potable water is fine), leave it open (my rule is I approximate it w/ steris if it does not gape, otherwise pack it wet to dry), cover it, and seek higher care. If the wound remains clean (and is large enough to consider closer), you can close wounds after days of being open (delayed primary closure), otherwise most wounds will heal (albeit slowly) by secondary intention - new tissue will grow in to fill the gap. Don't irrigate w/ alcohol, bleach, iodine,peroxide, etc... - they all retard tissue healing. Irrigate w/ normal saline or potable water (studies have shown that it is pretty comparable to NS for irrigation purposes). Best done under some degree of pressure (a syringe w/ a fine tip works great for this - in the ED I use a 30cc syring & an 18 gauge IV catheter). Suturing hurts. Stapling hurts. Steris - don't hurt. Suturing/stapling tracks contaminants into the wound (and into surrounding tissues, if you do it correctly) unless you can meticulouslymaintain a sterile field. A contaminated wound that is closed has a much higher risk of infection than a wound left open. Local wound care is easier than trying to fight a systemic infection, esp. in the field.


In school, I used pig's feet for practice, but few things will really give you the feel for real tissue. It's not the same as sewing cloth. It takes some actual training & practice to understand what you are doing & why. You need to be able to identify the various layers, and bring them back together in the appropriate planes (this sometimes requires placing multiple layers of sutures). You have to close all the wound, not just the skin - if you leave space below the skin that is not approximated, fluid will collect, and you've just increased your infection risk dramatically. By leaving the wound open, you can inspect it daily, remove any questionable material, and if it does become infected, it will tend to drain, and not progress deeper. You can always remove sutures if the wound looks infected, and then reopen the wound, but I would suggest hedging on the safer side, and that's to leave it open.

I could teach you to suture in an hour - it would take much longer to teach you when not to suture. If you never had formal training in how/why to suture, I'd suggest not doing it. If you have had the training, you already know this.


Fractures - unless you are experienced in reducing them, I would suggest splinting in place & transporting. Follow the RICES mnemonic - rest, ice (cool stream would work), compress (ace wrap - helps stabilize area & reduce swelling), elevate (again, reduces swelling), and splint. Open fractures - same - cover the protruding bone w/ moistened gauze, pad the area around it, splint in place - do not try to reduce it. SAM splints are great, and can be used in a variety of applications.


Many of the topics covered are not really first aid. Suturing, reduction of fractures or dislocations - all falls more into more advanced care. I'd make sure you have the basics down pat before pursuing more aggressive management. As the gurus state - DO NO HARM, DO KNOW HARM - don't make it worse, but more importantly, you have to KNOW what will make it worse. Sometimes the best answer is not to try to do too much.

Just my 2 cents as a former Army medic/EMT-B & current surgical PA - I've closed a ton of wounds, but I've also left a ton open.

Sam
 
Your question portends that you don't even know what the purpose of suturing is, namely to approximate the skin with as little scarring as possible. There is NO TIME that it is life and death. NEVER (unless you happen to have learned so much off the internet that you think you can resect a severed vessel.... that's joke BTW). In a life or death situation, you control the bleeding, cover the wound and let it heal from the inside out. Change the dressings often. Forget suturing, you probably would have a tough time just cleaning a wound. New medical personnel NEVER get it right and that's after months or even years of training and after seeing it done properly by experienced personnel.

Let me amend my first statement to this: There is a reason that suturing isn't taught in basic first aid courses, or advanced first aid courses, or medical first responder courses, or EMT basic courses, or EMT intermediate courses, or EMT paramedic courses, or in licensed practical nurse courses, or in registered nurse courses, or in the first couple of years of medical school. Does that make it more clear?

I'm a rusty former military medic with special ops experience and training. I was also a full-time paramedic and emergency nurse. I used to teach at a universty paramedic program and instructed many other EMS courses. I'm a little rusty because I've been out of that field since 95. However, I have had a MFR and EMT class since then. I'd wager I have more medical experience than most. I have sutured minor wounds and assisted with suturing other trauma care in damn near every kind of patient. I have had lotsa blood on my hands (and have the scars to prove it). I would never consider suturing in the field. Why? There is no benefit, yet the risk is large. It just doesn't add up.

If you want to be a pretend surgeon, medic, emergency nurse or whatever, learn advanced airway maneuvers. At least that would be somewhat helpful. I'm sure someone can come up with a field expedient endotracheal tube woven from cedar bark.

Seriously, take an EMT course and learn assessment and basic wound management. You still won't be suturing but at least you have some slight clue about what's going on in an emergency situation.


Like ive said numerous times, numerous, its not something to do w/o training, and there is no need for it unless you are in a long term situation.

Awnser this- What is better, cleaning and packing and bandaging your wound, for three days, and then running out of supplies, so you just get to have an open wound with no way to cover it, and its too late to stitch. OR stitching the wound up because you realize there is no help in sight, and your medical supplies will only hold out for a few days?
 
Like ive said numerous times, numerous, its not something to do w/o training, and there is no need for it unless you are in a long term situation.

Awnser this- What is better, cleaning and packing and bandaging your wound, for three days, and then running out of supplies, so you just get to have an open wound with no way to cover it, and its too late to stitch. OR stitching the wound up because you realize there is no help in sight, and your medical supplies will only hold out for a few days?

When I was in my teens, I had had enough of emergency rooms and stitches. I began carefully bandaging cuts that "needed" stitches. I have many scars but other than surgeries none have been stitched.
Just my depreciating $.02
 
I'll chime in, some of this has already been stated, but can bear repeating:

Bleeding - pressure, pressure, pressure. For small wound, the best device is your finger - apply narrow pressure to the spot, right where it is bleeding - scale it up for larger wounds. Hold that pressure for 10-15 minutes. Don't look at it. The vast majority of wounds will have clotted by the time the 15 minutes is up. If it is still bleeding, hold more pressure, for longer. I have stopped plenty of arterial bleeding with just a finger & patience. Once the bleeding has stopped, apply a dressing to the area - some vessels (small arteries in particular) can exhibit enough vasospasm to temporarily stop bleeding, only to reopen later - so you need to monitor the wound. If the person has taken aspirin, or other antiplatelet /anticoagulant medications - be prepared to hold pressure for a long time (30-45 minutes is not uncommon). If you can't hold pressure that long, place a pressure dressing - the new military dressings are pretty darn good, and worth adding to a kit. Head wounds bleed a lot - expect it - there is an anatomical reason for it (blood vessels in the scalp are trapped within a tough layer of tissue, they cannot contract or spasm easily, and they therefore stay open much longer, causing more blood loss. There are roles for tourniquets, mainly in amputation, and uncontrollable bleeding.


Suturing in the field is generally not a good idea. There are exceptions, but the wilderness med guys will tell you clean, cover (some advocate a dilute betadine dressing), and transport. The only reason I could see to close a wound w/ sutures or staples, is if not doing so will hinder you getting to help - that's a pretty rare circumstance.

Pouring superglue into a wound is not smart. Does it work - sometimes. You can usually get away w/ using it on small, superficial wounds. Even the medical grade superglues have a fairly narrow range of uses. I know everyone here has probably used superglue on cuts (all of which would probably have healed without it) - I've done it to seal small paper cuts before going into the OR, but it's not the safe choice for wound care.

But back to suturing - it does several things - it can align tissues & restore function (arteries/veins/nerves/tendons,etc...) it speeds/promotes the healing process (basically by closing the distance that new tissue has to bridge & eliminating dead space where infection can get a foothold), and it gives a better scar.

In a field environment, I would advocate either approximating w/ steri-strips (after irrigating/debriding) or packing the wound open w/ moistened gauze. Trying to sew up a wound in grossly contaminated environment is an invitation to infection. I can guarantee you that you will have a contaminated wound. Cellulitis/necrotizing fasciitis/septicemia are real concerns when injuries occur in the field. If untreated, they can lead to loss of limb and/or life. Clean it (potable water is fine), leave it open (my rule is I approximate it w/ steris if it does not gape, otherwise pack it wet to dry), cover it, and seek higher care. If the wound remains clean (and is large enough to consider closer), you can close wounds after days of being open (delayed primary closure), otherwise most wounds will heal (albeit slowly) by secondary intention - new tissue will grow in to fill the gap. Don't irrigate w/ alcohol, bleach, iodine,peroxide, etc... - they all retard tissue healing. Irrigate w/ normal saline or potable water (studies have shown that it is pretty comparable to NS for irrigation purposes). Best done under some degree of pressure (a syringe w/ a fine tip works great for this - in the ED I use a 30cc syring & an 18 gauge IV catheter). Suturing hurts. Stapling hurts. Steris - don't hurt. Suturing/stapling tracks contaminants into the wound (and into surrounding tissues, if you do it correctly) unless you can meticulouslymaintain a sterile field. A contaminated wound that is closed has a much higher risk of infection than a wound left open. Local wound care is easier than trying to fight a systemic infection, esp. in the field.


In school, I used pig's feet for practice, but few things will really give you the feel for real tissue. It's not the same as sewing cloth. It takes some actual training & practice to understand what you are doing & why. You need to be able to identify the various layers, and bring them back together in the appropriate planes (this sometimes requires placing multiple layers of sutures). You have to close all the wound, not just the skin - if you leave space below the skin that is not approximated, fluid will collect, and you've just increased your infection risk dramatically. By leaving the wound open, you can inspect it daily, remove any questionable material, and if it does become infected, it will tend to drain, and not progress deeper. You can always remove sutures if the wound looks infected, and then reopen the wound, but I would suggest hedging on the safer side, and that's to leave it open.

I could teach you to suture in an hour - it would take much longer to teach you when not to suture. If you never had formal training in how/why to suture, I'd suggest not doing it. If you have had the training, you already know this.


Fractures - unless you are experienced in reducing them, I would suggest splinting in place & transporting. Follow the RICES mnemonic - rest, ice (cool stream would work), compress (ace wrap - helps stabilize area & reduce swelling), elevate (again, reduces swelling), and splint. Open fractures - same - cover the protruding bone w/ moistened gauze, pad the area around it, splint in place - do not try to reduce it. SAM splints are great, and can be used in a variety of applications.


Many of the topics covered are not really first aid. Suturing, reduction of fractures or dislocations - all falls more into more advanced care. I'd make sure you have the basics down pat before pursuing more aggressive management. As the gurus state - DO NO HARM, DO KNOW HARM - don't make it worse, but more importantly, you have to KNOW what will make it worse. Sometimes the best answer is not to try to do too much.

Just my 2 cents as a former Army medic/EMT-B & current surgical PA - I've closed a ton of wounds, but I've also left a ton open.

Sam


Great post bro!! When I wrote this I intended it to be an information type thing, I touched on alot of advanced stuff, but that was just to touch on it.

I had to mention setting fx, but like I said, its only advisable if there is vessel comprimise.

---------------------------------------------------

Ok, I am gonna say it again, If help is reasonable, then dont do anything advanced, stop bleeding, dress wounds, and splint Fxs. ANd seek help.

I wrote this as a wilderness first aid, AND a survival situation perspective. If you re stranded, lost, plane crash, zombie apocolypse:rolleyes:, natural disaster, whatever, and help is just not an option, then there are things to consider.

But.......If you are in you yard, house, park, whatever, help is reasonable, you need to utilize it.:thumbup:
 
J Willy - What about skin stapling for deep wounds? I'm sure that practically no one carries a skin stapler, but I've got a few, one being super small that holds maybe 10-20 staples. I've never used it, and haven't researched it yet, which is why I don't carry it, but I'm curious if this would be a better option to try? Or would this mainly be to close surface issues?

Dude, thats beyond me. I wouldnt do it, and have to advise against it, b/c I have never done it, and cant reccomend something ive never done.
 
So, a lot of great info here. I'm curious how many people bring enough supplies to manage a deep wound for three days? I carry some steri-strips, but I carry very little gauze and other dressings, unless I'm out for a prolonged period of time.
 
I have 2. A huge one- that would last a week or more for myself or less for several people, and a small one that would last a couple days. However, that depends on what you are dealing with.
 
Awnser this- What is better, cleaning and packing and bandaging your wound, for three days, and then running out of supplies, so you just get to have an open wound with no way to cover it, and its too late to stitch. OR stitching the wound up because you realize there is no help in sight, and your medical supplies will only hold out for a few days?
Make improvised bandages or boil and clean the old bandages the way they did in the old days.

Who instructed you at suturing? In what couirse? I'm just curious because I don't know many paramedics that know the first thing about it. The three of us that did got that experience from the special forces medical sergeant school or from IDC school.

One of the things that I think are lacking a bit in your initial post is pressure points. I'd rather have a newbie to spend time trying to learn how to appropriately control severe arterial bleeding than thinking about sutures. (To be fair, I know you didn't bring up suturing.)

How many of you bring broad spectrum antibiotics, scalpels and drains to fix the infection that you closed into a wound? Most of you don't carry enough equipment (saline, betadine, betadine scrub brushes at the minimum) and don't have the skill to clean a wound to the level necessary before closing.

People, I know you guys don't know anything about microbiology, but it's not as simple as pouring some water on the wound then suturing, butterflying, supergluing or whatever. That is as absolutely stupid as walking up to a stagnant swamp pond and guzzling down the water.
 
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Make improvised bandages or boil and clean the old bandages the way they did in the old days.

Who instructed you at suturing? In what couirse? I'm just curious because I don't know many paramedics that know the first thing about it. The three of us that did got that experience from the special forces medical sergeant school or from IDC school.

One of the things that I think are lacking a bit in your initial post is pressure points. I'd rather have a newbie to spend time trying to learn how to appropriately control severe arterial bleeding than thinking about sutures. (To be fair, I know you didn't bring up suturing.)

Right on, I was just trying to clarify that point.

My uncle is a Doc, he worked with me quite a bit on sutures. I feel comfortable doing it, but not 100%, more like 80%.

Did I not mention pressure points? I will have to reread it, I thought I did, and meant to.

I agree with the fact that someone w/o instruction, and LOTS of practice shouldnt try sutures. :thumbup:

If you can stop bleeding through direct pressure, which you do 98% of the time, and minimize infection, you are golden.

Good thoughts on bandages too. Improvise is always good,just make sure they are sterile.:thumbup:

This is a great discussion, thanks to you guys who are offering up your perspectives on the subject. I enjoy lookin at stuff through differant eyes. Its great!!!!
 
This is a EXCELLENT thread; and thanks for the great additional input neomaz and Flotsam.:thumbup::thumbup:

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms or anything guys, with the suture question, nor did I mean to steer the discussion towards more advanced management. I just hear/read much conflicting info out there on wound management and wanted to know what is actually advisable should you find yourself in that situation.

I don't think anyone here wants to Rambo it up, but we do want to know what's the best course of action should you find yourself having to manage your own or someone else's wound (after you've stopped the bleeding) because you're lost or because rescue and proper medical treatment is delayed for some reason (e.g. backpack trip gone awry, large scale natural disaster, etc).

This thread is a great resource! We should sticky it or something :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Great Discussion and thread. My only regret is having to read it so late in the game - it would have been fun to be more interactive with this. I think the on-going debate is very high quality and laudable and there is a lot of information tucked in.

I was scratching my head that it took to the bottom of page 2 before steri-strips were mentioned. I think these things are great and a good comprimise between suturing. Clearly not as stable, but couple those steri strips with a few well placed bandaides or dressing tape and you can keep the wound reasonably shut to facilitate healing but also gain access to it for further irrigating later if needed.

Thanks for the OP J, exactly what I wanted and this thread was a great little refresher to my Wildnerness first aid that I took almost a year ago today!

ken
 
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