First knife designs using 1084 (Slow but lots of pics)

quint said:
Man 1/4" is pretty thick, guess you got determination knocked out. Just curious any reason you went with such thick stock.
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i wanted it to be a beefy camp style knife. and this is what was in stock in 1084 at NJsteelbaron. so i bought it. and in hindsight got way ahead of myself. cuz i have 4 ft of it, and not sure i want to make 2-3 more knives out of this stuff by hand. will be getting some thinner stuff for some more fighter style knives.
 
started draw filing the blade tonight. this is gonna be slow. spent maybe 2 hours on this off and on. and maybe took .008 off. just on side. gonna put more work on the other side tomorrow. not sure the 12" magicut is cutting like i thought it would. maybe it is and this is just a huge blade to file down.

ordered a pferd last night too, 12" course double cut. lets see if that does any different.

here are some pics. its early. but any thoughts on my technique?




 
Yepits gonna take a little while.

One thing I picked up from many WIP here on the forum is set your little guide like you have, using a round file file in the plunge lines first. Dont go above where you want your grind line to be but file the plunges down to the thickness your looking for during HT. Then proceed with filing the rest of your bevel in.

One thing about doing it this way which helps me is when I go back after getting the knife ground and try to fix up your plunge line if you try and do it then it is very hard to get the back edge nice without digging deeper into your blade. If that makes sense.
 
makes perfect sense. just need to grow a pair and make that plunge line! i've got some nice 3/16" round files for chainsaw blades that should cut a nice smooth plunge line.

was thinking i would start a line a bit shallow and as i get the draw down to it i can take it deeper if needed


i really need a more stable table (ha). this one rocks when i am draw filling, and i am afraid it is going to start to give me valleys in the blade.
 
mjderstine said:
started draw filing the blade tonight. this is gonna be slow. spent maybe 2 hours on this off and on. and maybe took .008 off. just on side. gonna put more work on the other side tomorrow. not sure the 12" magicut is cutting like i thought it would. maybe it is and this is just a huge blade to file down
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Since you're working with 1/4" I would save the draw filing until you get closer to the final thickness to get everything flat. Keep the tip of your file perpendicular to the blade edge and stroke forward while also moving the file side ways toward the tip of your blade. This will give you overlapping diagonal strokes that cut fast and are easy to clean up later. A single cut ( I think I spotted one on your work bench) or long angle lathe file will be the best for draw filing later on. That magicut style file is really great for hogging metal fast, with forward strokes, but not so great for draw filing. That pferd you ordered will be the same story, great for hogging metal, but not so great at draw filling. If you really want to draw file with a double cut or chip breaker style file (magicut) then keep you file around a 45 angle to the edge so that the teeth are engaging the metal. You want as much tooth edge as possible engaging the metal when you are draw filing. If in doubt about the angle, use the orientation that creates the greatest resistance. If your file is at the wrong angle it will tend to skate- you will feel the file grab hold and cut when you get it to the right angle.

I'm only speaking from my personal experience, however, and make sure you get a file card to clean clean debris out of those file teeth when you get close to your final surface or else you get nasty gouges that are tough to sand out.
 
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You are correct,you need a stable surface.It will make the file work go faster and be more level also.
Eddie
 
I have that exact same file. Its useless. I couldn't imagine filing down a whole knife with it. I think they are hit and miss with quality. Mine was so bad I had to double check to make sure I didn't buy a woodworking file/rasp by mistake. I honestly remove material faster with 220grit 3m sandpaper. I think I will practice forging on that file to make it useful for something. :)

Its usually at this time people get the first advice they were given: Make a 3" drop point hunter or paring knife to learn the steps. :) It just looks like it can't be "that much work!" :)
 
I use files exclusively for making bevels. I would imagine that if you tried to only draw file, especially a blade that size, you're gonna be there quite a while. What Shleifstein said....Use forward strokes with slight draw motion. That diagonal stroke cuts fast. Once the overall shape is there, and you've ground down to your edge lines, then draw file it flat.

Proper draw file use is this....tang in right hand push to cut. Tang in left hand pull to cut.
 
Schleifstein said:
Since you're working with 1/4" I would save the draw filing until you get closer to the final thickness to get everything flat. Keep the tip of your file perpendicular to the blade edge and stroke forward while also moving the file side ways toward the tip of your blade. This will give you overlapping diagonal strokes that cut fast and are easy to clean up later. A single cut ( I think I spotted one on your work bench) or long angle lathe file will be the best for draw filing later on. That magicut style file is really great for hogging metal fast, with forward strokes, but not so great for draw filing. That pferd you ordered will be the same story, great for hogging metal, but not so great at draw filling. If you really want to draw file with a double cut or chip breaker style file (magicut) then keep you file around a 45 angle to the edge so that the teeth are engaging the metal. You want as much tooth edge as possible engaging the metal when you are draw filing. If in doubt about the angle, use the orientation that creates the greatest resistance. If your file is at the wrong angle it will tend to skate- you will feel the file grab hold and cut when you get it to the right angle.

I'm only speaking from my personal experience, however, and make sure you get a file card to clean clean debris out of those file teeth when you get close to your final surface or else you get nasty gouges that are tough to sand out.
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right not i am using a stiff scrub brush to clean the slag out. work so far.

i will be trying your technique tonight. i am no stranger to filing things, but filing the precisely, that takes more technique than i have used in the past. i have def had this file skate when drawing with the file perpendicular to the blade. it skates and chaters about 20% of the time. takes a deft touch to get it to cut correctly.

gredpe3 said:
You are correct,you need a stable surface.It will make the file work go faster and be more level also.
Eddie
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yup, might need to visit some second hand stores this weekend.

Willie71 said:
I have that exact same file. Its useless. I couldn't imagine filing down a whole knife with it. I think they are hit and miss with quality. Mine was so bad I had to double check to make sure I didn't buy a woodworking file/rasp by mistake. I honestly remove material faster with 220grit 3m sandpaper. I think I will practice forging on that file to make it useful for something. :)

Its usually at this time people get the first advice they were given: Make a 3" drop point hunter or paring knife to learn the steps. :) It just looks like it can't be "that much work!" :)
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its cutting, and since i dont have a power tool to use i have to make it work. between this and the pfred i should get it done in about 6 months!

and yes. love that advice and totally understand why it is given now!

Schleifstein said:
I posted some questions a while back about files- got some really good answers:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1074260-Recommendation-Hand-Files
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actually read this thread many times already! glad i'm not the first person teaching myself through mistakes.

samuraistuart said:
I use files exclusively for making bevels. I would imagine that if you tried to only draw file, especially a blade that size, you're gonna be there quite a while. What Shleifstein said....Use forward strokes with slight draw motion. That diagonal stroke cuts fast. Once the overall shape is there, and you've ground down to your edge lines, then draw file it flat.

Proper draw file use is this....tang in right hand push to cut. Tang in left hand pull to cut.
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gonna start that tonight. thanks again. and yes, pull with handle in left! other way round does nothing but ruin a section of the file.
 
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well got the pferd! cant really explain how much bigger the teeth are. those of you who have a course 12" pfred know what i am talking about. just insane. at first i thought they sent me a wood rasp accidentally.:rolleyes: but nope. it hogs the steel like nothing else. look forward to having the blade close to HT in a week or two. love having real files again.

so funny question. seems like the files are left handed. i know they probably arent, but as a chip cutter the best cutting action is a perpendicular file moving right to left. r to l movement just seems counterintuitive to the right handed user. anyone else feel this way?

just a couple pics of my files







oh and i like draw filing because its the noodling of filing. if you a chainsaw nut, you know what i mean.
 
A good file makes a world of difference! Glad the purer is cutting well.
 
That's a nice pile of filings there! :thumbup: I hope you're using a dust mask or respirator and vacuuming periodically.
 
havent been using a respirator. if i was grinding i would. but just filing, i wouldnt imagine there is much getting into the air here.

so still working it down. got it down to .15 on the edge from .25. but still have lots to do to get a nice taper. picked up a nicholoson 3/8" rat tail today, and its made in brazil. so it did a nice job on the transition to the handle for me. still gonna have to take more down, but its coming along.

there is going to be lots of cleaning up to do, and i am still tihnking about the handle material i want.








 
You are doing good ,stay after it.This thing looks like it will be a beast.You should take pride in knowing it will still be kickin when we are all dead and gone.
Eddie
 
Good design, and it looks like you'll have it all worked out real soon with that hoss of a file!

I'll definitely look forward to seeing the finished product.
 
gredpe3 said:
You are doing good ,stay after it.This thing looks like it will be a beast.You should take pride in knowing it will still be kickin when we are all dead and gone.
Eddie
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with its size it should def last generations.

VaughnT said:
Good design, and it looks like you'll have it all worked out real soon with that hoss of a file!

I'll definitely look forward to seeing the finished product.
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thanks. its coming along. every night i take a few more microns off. when the shavings cover the table i took enought off.

i am being careful to not get the knife too hot from filing. its never too hot to touch, but it gets warm of i get to ambitious.
 
well, getting it closer and closer. the edge is about down to .1 to .13. the bevel are coming along nicely. but having just a bit of an issue with the filing now.

starting to get a lot of chatter out at the tip, and its causing the pretty bad lines in the end. def not worried about it since i can get them out with more work. but wanted to know if i can reduce all this chatter. getting some pretty loud squeaks out at the end now too.

also getting some weird waves down near the ricasso. those worry me a little more. they are much larger waves, and no matter what i do. less pressure, different angle, going the other way. they arent going away.

any ideas?




 
For the chatter, clamp as close as possible to the section you are filing. For the squeaking, put a soft-jaw or spring clamp on the blade to dampen the vibrations. C-clamps will just rattle. For the waves, reduce your pressure or change your filing angle to rub them out. The waves are actually a sign that you are using steady consistent file strokes. :) I think these ripples are a similar phenomena to the ripples you see on sand dunes and are caused by the repeated shifting and cutting of material in a uniform direction.
 
Have you also been cleaning the teeth of files out with a stiff brush? Those shavings in the teeth will gouge your blade pretty bad. Clean the teeth more often as you get closer to the final surface that you want. If the lines still appear, I would switch to sandpaper with a stiff backing block to clean up the surface.
 
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