Flu outbreak....

SparkyMark86 said:
i got a call from my brother and he said "The zombie flu is here"! i thought that was funny but on a more serious note this does look like it is spreading fast and looks to be very dangerous.
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Well...apparently some feel pretty threatened. So far some schools are closed in Texas, California, and New York. I read that a lot of the sick in those places have recently returned from trips Mexico. So far other countries have tightened restrictions, some even out-right banning, the import of pork from north America. Can the meat of an infected animal even transmit the flu if normal safe meat handling procedures are followed? Others are discussing closing their borders to people coming from North America, and are preparing to start quarantining incoming people who show any symptoms. In the end this flu could have much more impact than just how many people got sick or die from it. Depending on just how fast and how aggressively this flu spreads, it could easily weaken a few already troubled infrastructures.
 
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mistwalker said:
So far other countries have tightened restrictions, some even out-right banning, the import of pork from north America. Can the meat of an infected animal even transmit the flu if normal safe meat handling procedures are followed?.
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No. Perhaps aside from prion diseases in which the infectious agent is actually a mis-folded protein, viruses and bacteria cannot be transmitted through properly prepared meat (at least as far as I know).

Can people catch swine flu from eating pork?
No. Swine influenza viruses are not transmitted by food. You can not get swine influenza from eating pork or pork products. Eating properly handled and cooked pork and pork products is safe. Cooking pork to an internal temperature of 160°F kills the swine flu virus as it does other bacteria and viruses.
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http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/key_facts.htm

mistwalker said:
In the end this flu could have much more impact than just how many people got sick or die from it. Depending on just how fast and how aggressively this flu spreads, it could easily weaken a few already troubled infrastructures.
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I agree :thumbup: The potential secondary socioeconomic effects could exacerbate existing problems (if this even turns into anything serious).


Just heard a case might have popped up near me in Sacramento, a child who returned from a vacation in mexico with his/her family.
 
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rksoon said:
No. Perhaps aside from prion diseases in which the infectious agent is actually a mis-folded protein, viruses and bacteria cannot be transmitted through properly prepared meat (at least as far as I know).
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That's what I thought
 
Looks like it's landed in Europe according to the lunchtime news here. It's been confirmed in Spain in someone who's just returned frm Mexico.

Authorities are recommending not to take unnecessary journeys...

Time to dig out that nbc respirator... ;)

Hmm... They've also just said that Scotland has two people in isolation after returning from Mexico with flu-like symptoms. Not confirmed yet what they have. What did I say about that respirator???
 
The very Idea that any health care worker can avoid this or any other illness by hiding at home is moronic:confused:

Flu-like symptoms is probably the most common EMS calls, and emergency room visit reasons. the slight increase in volume that signifies the beginning of a problem will not be immediately noted. Sickness rates raise and lower as seasons change, pressure systems pass and for a million other reasons. This march we witnessed a brief increase in pneumonia admissions in children, but that ended as quickly as it began.

By the time we realize that an epidemic exists you will probably already be infected, and have brought it home to your family.

I Look at it like this. In my life Soldiers put themselves at risk for me, as an EMT and as an RN I have had police and firefighters, put themselves between me, my patients and harm. I would be dishonoring them and all of the others who have given for me if I run away when its my turn to hold the door for others.

But hey I don't just "work in health care",

I am a health-care Professional. :thumbup:
 
I will take the usual precautions, avoid public places. Instead of using my fingers to work the keyboard of the bank machine I'll use my truck key, those bank keypads are worse than public toilets in many cases. Same thing with the shopping carts, but in this case use a sanitizing wipe, and avoid touching my face with my hands until I can wash my hands at home. I may have to drive to visit family instead of taking the plane next month depending on how it unfolds. Small steps all help.
 
I will have to lay off the mexican trim for a while.
sadbananax.gif
 
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Woke up early this morning to go turkey hunting and figures, Sore throat and case of the runs. Then I hear on the news all this stuff. Got me wondering.
 
As some of you have pointed out, it is not the Flu virus itself which kills, but rather the secondary infections.

CaptInsano Post 129
IOW, flu doesn't kill you. Not being able to breath or cooking your brain, or not being able to maintain fluid and electrolyte balance kills you. Theses are all things that were much better at handling now. You don't have to survive the flu. Your immune system can handle it. You have to survive the symptoms while your immune system handles it.
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Bear Claw Chris Lappe Post 139
Typical it weakens the infected person to the point that either one or more of the symptoms overwhelms the body, fever, dehydration...etc.

Or it weakens you enough that an opportunistic bacterial infection sets in.
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It is my understanding that the Flu epidemic of 1918 produced high mortality rates because the population was unable to deal with the secondaries as they were weakened after 4 years of wartime suffering. The disease was also spread by soldiers returning home from the war, hence the 3 waves.

I get the Flu about once every 2 years. Back in South Africa I would rest up and wait for the secondary infection to kick in (bacterial throat infection), visit my MD who would prescribe anti-biotics and within a couple of days I would be fine. Lost productive time = max 5 working days.

Here in the UK the medical philosophy is different. Anti-biotics are frowned upon and in Dec/Jan 2009 I had the worst Flu I have experienced in a long while. I was weakened for almost 5 weeks. Fortunately, I was working from home, so could rest when I needed to. It is a rather frightening experience when one knows that anti-biotics will clear up the infection and an anti-inflammatory will clear the airways. Some nights I would wake up struggling for breath.

But such is the NHS over here - one cannot argue with the doctors as the service is free. I much prefer a system where you pay your money and insist on effective and rapid treatment.

Forgive the ramble - my point is this - If the secondaries are the cause of death, then what is the fuss over the strain of the Flu?

(Forgive my simple question - I am but a layman in matters medical.)
 
Lazydog1 said:
As some of you have pointed out, it is not the Flu virus itself which kills, but rather the secondary infections.






It is my understanding that the Flu epidemic of 1918 produced high mortality rates because the population was unable to deal with the secondaries as they were weakened after 4 years of wartime suffering. The disease was also spread by soldiers returning home from the war, hence the 3 waves.

I get the Flu about once every 2 years. Back in South Africa I would rest up and wait for the secondary infection to kick in (bacterial throat infection), visit my MD who would prescribe anti-biotics and within a couple of days I would be fine. Lost productive time = max 5 working days.

Here in the UK the medical philosophy is different. Anti-biotics are frowned upon and in Dec/Jan 2009 I had the worst Flu I have experienced in a long while. I was weakened for almost 5 weeks. Fortunately, I was working from home, so could rest when I needed to. It is a rather frightening experience when one knows that anti-biotics will clear up the infection and an anti-inflammatory will clear the airways. Some nights I would wake up struggling for breath.

But such is the NHS over here - one cannot argue with the doctors as the service is free. I much prefer a system where you pay your money and insist on effective and rapid treatment.

Forgive the ramble - my point is this - If the secondaries are the cause of death, then what is the fuss over the strain of the Flu?

(Forgive my simple question - I am but a layman in matters medical.)
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People are all excited at the prospect of another zoonotic disease after the avian flu nastiness. There is a tendency to associate things together based on one characteristic that may or may not accurately relate many aspects of those two things. This is a good example. Avian flu - - zoonose with a relatively high mortality rate. Swine flu - - zoonose so far exhibiting a relatively low mortality rate. But swine flu isn't even necessarily a new development. I want to say there have been a dozen or so cases in the US since the 80's, still with no fatalities. What makes this a little different is the number of infections. Seems higher than in recent times. Even so, the pathology and prognosis were swine flu to break out like seasonal flu, would be more like seasonal flu part deux as opposed to the end of the world.
 
CaptInsano said:
People are all excited at the prospect of another zoonotic disease after the avian flu nastiness. There is a tendency to associate things together based on one characteristic that may or may not accurately relate many aspects of those two things. This is a good example. Avian flu - - zoonose with a relatively high mortality rate. Swine flu - - zoonose so far exhibiting a relatively low mortality rate. But swine flu isn't even necessarily a new development. I want to say there have been a dozen or so cases in the US since the 80's, still with no fatalities. What makes this a little different is the number of infections. Seems higher than in recent times. Even so, the pathology and prognosis were swine flu to break out like seasonal flu, would be more like seasonal flu part deux as opposed to the end of the world.
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Interesting. i had been reading that this was a new hybrid strain that was more human-human transmissible than standard swine flu which you are referencing. So you are saying that this is the same thing as we've been tracking for decades and not a new strain.
 
koyote said:
Interesting. i had been reading that this was a new hybrid strain that was more human-human transmissible than standard swine flu which you are referencing. So you are saying that this is the same thing as we've been tracking for decades and not a new strain.
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It is my understanding that it is a new strain, but not that humans haven't been getting (and surviving 100% in the US) swine flu for years. Like I said before, even if the rate of infection increases the mortality rate is unlikely to increase.
 
Now, this thread started out muy interesante, and degenerated into the standard squabbles about debate technique.

I think we have 3 things to look at right now- the possibility of a pandemic, with some very odd mortality results thus far, zombies, and what people call 'secondary effects'.

We're all completely in the dark about pandemic possibilties. It is obvious that there's a lot we don't know- and no one can reasonably suggest, IMO, more than standard persoanl leve precautions. These would match normal economic depression stuff- stay healthy by washing your hands, save money (and contact) by going out less, and pay attention to diet and health.

As for zombies, we all know what to do.

The 'secondary effects' are the most interesting part of this for me right now. While we aren't close to seeing full scale interruptions of services, it's obvious by looking at Mexico that it's possible. You can rant about the low mortality of the flu or not, but the possibility of people and services closing up shop to various degrees is something to consider.

1: how's your water?
2: how's your food?
3: how's your fuel for cooking?
4: how's your storage (freezer?)
5: how's your set up for the unlikely extreme possibility of self-defense?
 
And its completely possible for masses of people to freak out in a detrimental manner whether the flu is realistically dangerous or not. So you can get some of the effects of a biological disaster without the disease.
 
I'm kinda hoping for zombies, I'm really tired of my day to day routine. Make things a little more interesting, and I'd get to use all my gear and knowledge for real.
 
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