Folder design with best lateral/prying strength

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Thereisnocowlevel, Dec 22, 2019.

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  1. Mikarta

    Mikarta

    78
    Oct 8, 2019
    Listen to Knife Nuts Podcast where he is a pretty regular guest (also a great podcast). He is a Navy veteran himself and used to make knives and sharpen knives for everyone on the ships.
     
    Lance Leon likes this.
  2. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    Thick, wide blade with big pivot, solid handle scales and blade-stops that contact the frame will pry as well as is possible with a folding knife.

    The Medford Praetorian pries about as well as a folder design can.
    It you made it any more "pry-worthy" it would cease being a knife that could cut things.
     
  3. Mecha

    Mecha Titanium Bladesmith Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 27, 2013
    Not a citation that the guy who designed the knife said it was to pry open doors, but that Navy SEALs use them to breach doors. But nevermind, it was a rhetorical question.
     
  4. lieferung

    lieferung Basic Member Basic Member

    May 24, 2016
    Locks aren't what experience lateral force during prying, the blade does or the pivot joint does. The weakest point in the structure. If you make it a thick slab stock blade to resist prying forces, that already impedes cutting ability.
     
    Rhinoknives1 and Lesknife like this.
  5. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    So none of you have ever seen a folder develop side to side blade play?

    Half the posters here are arguing against the idea of having good design elements in a folder to resist lateral forces.
     
  6. knarfeng

    knarfeng senex morosus moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Jul 30, 2006
    In order to design for "lateral forces", you negatively affect features which make a knife useful for its primary function of cutting and still fitting discreetly in a pocket. That's why people are arguing against you.
     
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  7. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    The current lock designs focus on vertical forces but once lateral force is applied it can cause the pivot/scales/liners to be pried apart and compromise that lock. Having a thick slab doesn’t really solve this issue, it’s still going to push the frame apart. I don’t see how those seal team pry bar folders can really withstand prying without frame failure
     
  8. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    One element which I have been mentioning is the external hinderer stop pins that brace against the front of the scales. It doesn’t affect blade geometry or pocketability. The other features brought up where one piece frames of rolled steel, larger washers, larger pivots. None of those affect blade geometry or pocketability. The whole point of the thread is to see which current folders have design elements that better resist lateral forces and to brainstorm new designs

    I mentioned this earlier but manufacturers somehow managed to have everyone think all that makes a hard use folder is resistance to vertical force. And as this thread proves a bunch of folks are in near denial that it is important for a folder to have lateral strength.

    Not trying to make a folding prybar, rather elements that make the common folding knife more resistant to lateral forces
     
  9. Mecha

    Mecha Titanium Bladesmith Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 27, 2013

    Everyone is directly answering your OP, which asked, 'WHAT design elements would enhance a folding knife's ability to pry things,' and 'WHY don't manufacturers do it.'
     
  10. T.L.E. Sharp

    T.L.E. Sharp Oatmeal Pecan is better than Chocolate-chip. Platinum Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    Oh, I see what you're saying. I'll get to that after I solve the problem folding knives have with celestial impact. I really want to make sure they don't develop blade play after a direct meteor strike. :rolleyes:
     
    Lance Leon, craytab and James Y like this.
  11. lieferung

    lieferung Basic Member Basic Member

    May 24, 2016
    Thick slab will prevent the blade from snapping or bending, as you would presumably be prying with the pointy end of the knife. The force then transfers to the pivot, which will fail as you said.

    Nobody is brainwashed, except maybe the guy seeking to defy physics, practicality, common sense, etc.
     
    James Y and T.L.E. Sharp like this.
  12. Rhinoknives1

    Rhinoknives1 KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 1, 2013
    Bad example with the Seals prying doors open with those knives.
    Cause when they break , they use their team mate’s to finish the operation and just go get another one from the Quarter master when they’re back on ship or base. It only has to last maybe one prying session. —————-Us Regular folk can’t afford to wreck a knife in our daily use. And those grinds won’t cut well ether.
     
  13. Mecha

    Mecha Titanium Bladesmith Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 27, 2013
    Tactical sandwich maker/peanut butter spreader, for prying open those stubborn condiment jars and SPAM cans.
     
    marcinek and Rhinoknives1 like this.
  14. Rhinoknives1

    Rhinoknives1 KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 1, 2013
    Peanut Butter & Spam sandwiches? If I was hunger enough or back in the day, stoned enough!
     
  15. T.L.E. Sharp

    T.L.E. Sharp Oatmeal Pecan is better than Chocolate-chip. Platinum Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    If the answer is either of those things then you're doing it wrong. Sure, you're never going to have a perfectly perpendicular impact and it'll experience some form of vertical or lateral force at the pivot or tang, but once again, making those things more resistant to that force also makes the knife less pleasant to carry and use.

    Also, what are you stabbing with such force that it causes you worry? If it's a person in a self defense situation then who cares if the blade develops play? If I successfully fend off an attacker with a folder then that knife can retire in dignity. I'll buy another.

    If you're stabbing trees or something like a weirdo then just use a fixed blade.
     
  16. T.L.E. Sharp

    T.L.E. Sharp Oatmeal Pecan is better than Chocolate-chip. Platinum Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    It's better than you'd expect. (I lost a bet.)
     
  17. Rhinoknives1

    Rhinoknives1 KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 1, 2013
    Well, I have about 2/3rds of a Cam in the freg, from Rey’s thread about slicing with our new Forum knife. :D I fried some and remembered why I leave those cans of Spam for Earthquake/disaster rations. Our dog won’t eat it........... Hmmm? Maybe. Get the wifey to think I’ve got a great idea for breakfast ??:D
     
    lieferung likes this.
  18. T.L.E. Sharp

    T.L.E. Sharp Oatmeal Pecan is better than Chocolate-chip. Platinum Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    Go for it. Be careful which knife you choose though. Spreading is definitely lateral force and there's a manufacturing conspiracy preventing most knives from effectively dealing with it.
     
    Lance Leon, Mecha and Rhinoknives1 like this.
  19. Thereisnocowlevel

    Thereisnocowlevel

    29
    Nov 7, 2018
    Most knives are marketed for hard use, touting the strongest locks in the business. Why should they expect the consumer use it daintily? Stop making excuses for them.

    And TLE Sharp this whole thing in how you ridicule new forum member is in really poor taste for someone who provides knife services.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  20. Rhinoknives1

    Rhinoknives1 KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 1, 2013
    But a couple of those folders that are marketed for strong locks. Attempt to pry open some doors , electrical boxes etc. when the blades snap & or bend & the locks fail. Send them in for warranty service & let us know how it works out!
     
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