Follow the Sheep Horn Fighter Thread

Hi Stephen,

Are you speaking Latin because your brain has swelled from banging against the wall? :D

I know I am asking some tough questions.

We just look at this from different points of view.

W
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Stephen,

Are you speaking Latin because your brain has swelled from banging against the wall? :D

I know I am asking some tough questions.

We just look at this from different points of view.

W
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I thought I was writing Gaelic :confused: .... just can't trust anything nowadays, even your own mind!

Theres too much space inbetween my skull and the tiny brain to do too much damage.

I just thought there are enough insights, opinions, and agendas in this thread, and others, for the astute reader to draw whatever conclusions suit them. Reiterating my view once again would start to bore rather than reinforce! .... and its bed time!:D


Stephen
 
Nobody involved in this thread is going to spend anywhere near $1250.00 on that knife. Most people that read what has been posted here are not going to be interested either.

One thing that this thread has got me interested in doing is looking around the internet to see what kind of prices are on consignment knives, and how those prices compare to what the makers are now charging for something similar.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Nobody involved in this thread is going to spend anywhere near $1250.00 on that knife. Most people that read what has been posted here are not going to be interested either.
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Keith, you are probably right, however the arms of the internet dealers reach far beyond this forum. I can't even tell you how many times I have questioned a dealer's apparent high price only to find the knife gone the next day.
 
No one who has been on this thread will purchase this nice piece at the current price. We all know what it sold for at Nordic and want THAT deal.

I don't think it's fair AT ALL to speak poorly about how Mike at RCK wants to price this piece. He did a service to Peter by purchasing the piece and he deserves to make as much as he possibly can. As Kevin just alluded, we are a miniscule portion of the internet buying public.

Let's not do any more disservice to Mike or Mike. They are both good guys. :thumbup: Let's hope for a quick and prosperous sale.

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
I don't think it's fair AT ALL to speak poorly about how Mike at RCK wants to price this piece. He did a service to Peter by purchasing the piece ...

Let's hope for a quick and prosperous sale.
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Huh... At that price, isn't that like hoping that someone gets over enthusiastic and buy a very overpriced piece? More power to Mike if he can sell it at that price, and I'll be the last one to criticize him for it, but that would contribute to the market's inefficiency / irrationality. That would be bad for all of us.

Mike didn't "do a service" to anyone. He bought a piece of inventory, period. He's now pricing it at a 56% margin (not including shipping costs), which is certainly his right, but is one more indication that this was no "service".

I suspect this knife could sell around $1,000, with no one here thinking anything bad about this price, and yielding a juicy 25% margin.

(Edited to replace "screwed" by "overenthusiastic")
 
You make a good point Coop. Besides, without this thread and the information contain within, I doubt most collectors would be questioning the current price to this degree.
I questioned the $800 sale price as much as the current $1250 asking price.

And who knows what must have happened to allow Dave to sell it for what he did. Perhaps he found it on the floor of a show and no one claimed it at the lost and found. :D

But seriously, you probably have the extreme in both directions here, with a realistic price resting somewhere in the middle. You can't blame Mike G for making an attempt at grabbing it all.

There was a little debate on Sunday afternoon as to whether this information should be shared publicly, and in fairness to both Mikes perhaps it should not have been. Most of us (me included) surrendered to curiosity as to what Peter had to say about this controversial Bowie.
 
Good for Peter for selling the knife at "his" price. Good for Mike to listing it at his price! Since Mike is a dealer, he has a luxury that Peter doesn't have. He has the luxury of time. Time allows him to sit on this knife for up to one year. If he sells it at 56% gross margin at one year, good for him. My stocks are lucky to gross 12%.

This is capitalism. All ye who are poopoohing Mike are fools.
 
Nobody is getting screwed over. Mike hasn't got a gun to anyone's head. People overpay for knives all the time for any number of reasons. They "gotta have it". They are huge fans of a particular maker and will take any piece at any price. They didn't do their homework. And so on. You may not pay $1,250 for that knife, but someone else might. That someone else might find a Fogg $3k carbon steel wood handled bowie "very overpriced" while another will line up early to buy it. Point is, where willing seller and willing buyer meet the only screwing going on is of the consesual variety.

Roger
 
SharpByCoop said:
The sheephorn handle is a wildcard taste. Some will like it and others will abhor it. That said, it makes this particular knife a bit of an anomaly. This factors into the already-complicated equation.

Coop
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true. I only have one sheephorn knife. It is a Jim Walker bowie about the same size as this knife and I got it for around $350 on EvilBay with a very nice Kenny Rowe sheath.
 
Hi Coop,

First, no one is bad mouthing Mike Williams. I think we all agree that he is a talented maker and a good guy. Who we would all like to see return to the show circuit with his knives with value pricing.

Coop, only 3 dealers in the US have some kind of trade in policy. The rest will not take the knife you bought from them without a substantial loss to you. Do you think this helps the overall state of custom knives or hurts it?

As for dealers charging an excessive premium. I have to agree with Joss, I don't think that they are helping anyone but themselves. Talk about Caveat Emptor!

Coop. if people are overpaying for knives, especially for knives they will never get their money back out of. Wouldn't it be better, long term for all involved for them to buy knives right. More than likely the money they saved would go towards another custom knife. If someone paid $900 for the Williams Fighter and saved $350, for an extra $125 they could have a Williams hunter in Sheep Horn to match...only another $125. Mike would pick up a second and possibly more orders and there would be a very happy collector out there.

And/or be able to recoup a substantial amount of their purchase price when they sell that knife?

Wouldn't it be better for custom knives in general if all custom knives were priced fairly and held their value? If that were actually the case custom knives would be viewed by more as investments and not merely something to spend money on that have virtually no chance of holding its value.

Perhaps I am way off base. Maybe we should just assume that everyone is a full grown responsible adult and screw em if they don't know what they are doing.

Coop, your photography has helped custom knives and makers around the world. I have no doubt that your photos are on hard drives all over the world. You make a difference. Your opinion is respected and valued by collectors. You can no longer be a bystander. Just hoping things go well for the seller and/or the buyer. Because you know that if a collector does buy the Williams for $1,250 a disservice has been done to them. Even if they are a full grown adult.

Just as those who like you take their time to post their expertise here. This information is invaluable to new and even seasoned collectors.

Again, this is just my opinion and I realize it is over the top for many.

Putting my soap box back under my desk...again.

W
 
Because you know that if a collector does buy the Williams for $1,250 a disservice has been done to them
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I have to disagree. Dealers only provide a service. If a buyer finds the Williams knife appealing for $1250, they should buy it. That is probably darn close to the makers current price.

This knife is worth whatever it sells for.
 
Hi Les,

I am always pleased to be a sounding board for your opinions and expertise. It appears I push all the right buttons. :p :thumbup: ;) It's often intentional if not naive.

In the astute words of Kit Carson (who, I wish was a presence on these boards as he used to be): "I wish for both parties to be mutually satisfied."

As a professional I necessarily leave the critical comments aside. I am not smart enough to defend them. Really. That's why I like to listen and learn.

Coop
 
Oh, and thank you for acknowledging my photography. I feel I have helped our industry, and I enjoy that you recognize this. :thumbup:

Coop
 
Hi Coop,

I appreciate your button pushing.

You are welcome for my recognition of your work. It is well earned.

Mutual satisfaction is great. Except when later that the mutual satisfaction dissipates and the COLLECTOR realizes that he has been wronged (even though it is his/her fault for not doing their homework). As has been stated earlier we all deal in an art form that no one needs. With that in mind, what percentage of collectors do you think we can lose each year?

The question is open to not only Coop but anyone else who wants to provide a percentage guess.

My guess would be 0%.

W
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Mutual satisfaction is great. Except when later that the mutual satisfaction dissipates and the COLLECTOR realizes that he has been wronged (even though it is his/her fault for not doing their homework).
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I am at a real loss to see where the purchaser would be "wronged" in this scenario. Wronged by whom? I mean, Les sold this knife for a hundred bucks less than Mike is asking. Nobody is suggesting that Les screwed / wronged / ripped off that buyer. Nor should they.

Threads such as this are great for educating buyers, makers and dealers alike. But I balk at pricing vigilantism - particularly on an open forum. It has a distinct aroma of a can of worms to my nose - and not one that benefits the industry as a whole.

Roger
 
The collector would not be wronged by anyone. I shouldn't have used the term "screwed", because implicitly for someone to be screwed there needs to be someone to screw him. So the term screwed was wrong - I'll edit it out.

With this said, the fact is that whoever buys this piece now will make an objectively bad purchase. Sure, they might love the knife, but from now on they'll always have a slightly bitter taste when they look at it. Repeat that a few more times and anyone would conclude that knife collecting is the wrong hobby for them. A single occasion will at least paint the knife collecting world into a strange, opaque, incomprehensible market where only a clique of insiders gets a chance. People here might already think that of some segments of the market. How can that be good for the knife collecting biz / passion?
 
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