For those curious about the difference in the Tri-ad lock vs traditional lockbacks

Ok. Just to clear it up, my Endura has vertical play under medium cutting due to the lock design. I hardly use it. Will it fail under normal use? Not likely. Will it develop more play over time? Probably. I use my hold out and it is still rock solid. The point is not to bash companies or even locks. It was about educating people about the difference. It IS a different lock. As different as a Walker liner lock is from a Reeve integral lock.
 
Have seen the diagram and explanation on Cold Steel website.
TriadDiagram.gif

Seeing it in real product is different!
What I mean is, the diagram describes the slant, the oval hole of lock's pin, and the function of stop pin against blade edge/spine pressure. Seeing the real product tells more about the real execution of them, i.e. how much slant, how big the oval vs the pin, etc.

Have handled a Recon (maybe earlier version) at local store, couldn't understand why I wasn't able to unlock it, compared to normal backlock. Now I understand. :)

Thank you for nice comparison picture!
 
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Fanglekai said:
I guess I don't really see the point of having such a beefy lock. If you're using your knife to cut something the way you're supposed to a lock isn't even necessary, which is why a lot of people, myself included, still use slipjoints.
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What is cutting something "the way you're supposed to?"
Suppose that you are using it in a stabbing motion?
Might not the use of a strong locked blade be fitting in that circumstance?

pete
 
Ah good old Tsujigiri, He's in every thread with anything related to Coldsteel and never has anything positive to contribute to any of them.
 
I LOVE my 2010 Recon 1. Awesome g10, super easy to disassemble, great lock. Works in nicely and is very smooth. I'd prefer a different coating and steel, but its all good for $60.

People are so funny. They knock a product without ever owning let alone touching one (not dissing people who have used them, only those who haven't).
 
All the 'locks are stupid' ppl in this thread need to go stab a piece of wood 100 times using edge forward reverse grip.
 
I agree with previous posters that the Spartan is not comfortable at all to close.
While the lock may be somewhat stronger because of the pin that dilutes force, I don't think that for normal knife use, a classic well-designed back lock such as those made by Spyderco will be significantly less safe. Perhaps on a very long term.
Now I am not a knife maker, but I have the suspicion that an interesting effect of the Triad lock is that the knife can be made with somewhat larger tolerances as the stop pin dilutes the force, a classic lock back on the other hand must be perfectly aligned to the blade for good force transfer. Comments?
 
Nice picture :thumbup:

Lots of locks out there. If you've got a better mousetrap, bring it on.
 
Anybody else notice that the hold out is constructed a bit differently regarding placement of the stop pin? Shooter, it's the Boye detent.
 
Dagon said:
I agree with previous posters that the Spartan is not comfortable at all to close.
While the lock may be somewhat stronger because of the pin that dilutes force, I don't think that for normal knife use, a classic well-designed back lock such as those made by Spyderco will be significantly less safe. Perhaps on a very long term.
Click to expand...
'Normal' knife use doesn't exist, or if it does it ranges widely from sitting in a glass display to serving as a rung in a ladder and worse. 'Normal' is what everybody makes of it. I'm sure your idea of normal differs greatly from mine, and neither of us is wrong.

Now I am not a knife maker, but I have the suspicion that an interesting effect of the Triad lock is that the knife can be made with somewhat larger tolerances as the stop pin dilutes the force, a classic lock back on the other hand must be perfectly aligned to the blade for good force transfer. Comments?
Click to expand...
There is no way to make a backlock that stays tight over a long period of intensive use. I own a Kershaw 1050 and it's one of the sstrongest heaviest thickest backlocks I've ever held. Pohl is the only one I know of that makes a thicker one. Closing a simple backlock with force, any upwards force on the edge (cutting but certainly a chopping-like action) will exert force on what is in effect both stoppin and pivot. It's a recipe for bladeplay.
So there is no way to compensate for the absence of the stopping you find in the Tri-Ad lock, no matter how tight tolerances or excellent workmanship.
 
Tsujigiri said:
A lot of truth in that. Plus, I don't see people complaining about how their "flimsy" Spyderco lockbacks have failed. The Tri-ad is a good idea, but it's kind of a solution to a problem no one had.
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as are the ball bearing lock, the compression lock, the frame lock, the axis lock, the arc-lock, the tactical action lock, the ram lock, the ultra lock, the button lock, the bolt action lock, the liner lock, the E-lock, the mattlock, the hawk lock, the bolster lock, the sub-frame lock, the vault lock, the stud lock, the ti-lock, the one-handed lock, the self-lock, the axial lock, the levitator lock, the toggle lock, the rolling lock, the ring lock

and whatever other non-lockback locks I can't think of at the moment
 
Fanglekai said:
I guess I don't really see the point of having such a beefy lock. If you're using your knife to cut something the way you're supposed to a lock isn't even necessary, which is why a lot of people, myself included, still use slipjoints.
Click to expand...

“Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it’s sterile and I like the taste.".....Patches O’Houlihan
 
Is there something at the back of the lockbar that the lockbar rides against so it can't slide backwards? It seems like with the oval 'pivot' hole that the lockbar could slide back some and then the front of the lock would hit the tang and stop instead of locking in place and engaging the tang. The oval hole is there so the lock can slide forward and rest against the stop pin so that closing forces are also transfered to the stop pin but it looks like it can also slide backwards from the picture.

Strength is just one part of a lock design. Ease of use is another. I like locks that I don't have to change my grip to close. When working in tight places or up on a ladder or even just playing and flipping the knife. Also not having to place fingers in the blade path when closing one handed and not looking is nice. Especially if all that can be accomplished while being nearly as strong.
 
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FlaMtnBkr said:
Is there something at the back of the lockbar that the lockbar rides against so it can't slide backwards? It seems like with the oval 'pivot' hole that the lockbar could slide back some and then the front of the lock would hit the tang and stop instead of locking in place and engaging the tang. The oval hole is there so the lock can slide forward and rest against the stop pin so that closing forces are also transfered to the stop pin but it looks like it can also slide backwards from the picture.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the lockbar can slide back a little, but there are no forces in that direction. Once you engage the lock, it will slide forward to stop against the stop pin. I tried it on my Recon 1. With the knife closed, I could use a screwdriver to shift the lockbar back a little, but once I opened the knife and engaged the lock, it slid forward again. That's one of the advantages of the Tri-Ad, it uses the stop pin as a positioning device, while the oval lockbar pivot hole allows self adjustment to mitigate blade play. A normal Lockback design puts all the locking and back stop forces on the lockbar pivot pin, and as the pin or hole ovalizes, more play develops.
 
Thanks for the pics. Looks like a much better and stronger design. One that accommodates wear.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
Yeah, the lockbar can slide back a little, but there are no forces in that direction. Once you engage the lock, it will slide forward to stop against the stop pin. I tried it on my Recon 1. With the knife closed, I could use a screwdriver to shift the lockbar back a little, but once I opened the knife and engaged the lock, it slid forward again. That's one of the advantages of the Tri-Ad, it uses the stop pin as a positioning device, while the oval lockbar pivot hole allows self adjustment to mitigate blade play. A normal Lockback design puts all the locking and back stop forces on the lockbar pivot pin, and as the pin or hole ovalizes, more play develops.
Click to expand...

There is a backward force on the lockbar. When you open the blade the lock rides on the tang and the friction will push the lockbar backwards. If the lock can slide in that direction I just don't see what guarantees the locking tab will engage the tang. With the angled locking faces it just looks like the lock would need to be all the way forward to engage the tang, at least it looks that way to me from the picture. I'm not home so I can't look at my America Lawman to analyze it more in hand.

Obviously many people like the lock and it should be strong, but so should other locks that utilize a stop pin to transfer forces to the liners. It's a good lock but its not the only one. I wish I liked cold steel more but I just haven't been that impressed with the 2 knives I have or the customer service I received from the company when I had an issue. The fit and finish just isn't there on the American Lawman I have. I also am somewhat of a steel snob and none of the steels they use impress me much.

If I had the money I would build a device to test various locks. Being disabled just doesn't afford buying and breaking knives. I happen to agree with Sal Glesser that many of the high end locks should be similar in strength. I would be curious to see the machine he built to break locks and analyze the forces. I bet it is quite a bit more advanced than what other companies use, if other companies use anything at all.
 
Pretty entertaining read here. Nothing much to add from me, other than I like strong, reliable locks, and I think the Triad is moving in the right direction. Also, my Rajah-2 was easier to unlock than my Police-3.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
With the angled locking faces it just looks like the lock would need to be all the way forward to engage the tang, at least it looks that way to me from the picture..
Click to expand...

Well, with my lock bar pushed all the way back with a screwdriver (all the way being maybe a 1mm) the lock engaged no problem upon opening the blade, so I guess it's a moot point.

Edit: Ah, I looked at the picture again. Remember when the lockbar is riding high on the tang (pre-engagement) the angled lock face is angled differently. It's as the lockbar closes down that the face angles back.
 
I guess I've spent the last forty-some-odd-years "cutting wrong" because I've had locking knives fold up on me several times during what I consider to be "normal" use. I stumbled upon this thread looking for a comparison of axis vs. frame lock but found the pics of the tri-ad to be very informative. I carried Cold Steel for years (and still do, at least the USA made Carbon V stuff) but never used a tri-ad lock. As a guy who carries and uses knives every day I put the strength of the lock very high on my list of requirements.
 
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