Forum Knife Updates and comments

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Its him...I just know it..
 
These are great knives!

No, the quality is not as good as GEC, in my estimation. The action is somewhat mediocre on both of my examples, even after cleaning and flushing with Quick Release Oil (thanks to @Chief for that tip, it did help). And why does Buck have to make their pivot pins so visible, even protuberant (I have to assume this is their norm because both of my forum knives and a 501 "Goodfella" that I recently acquired from SK exhibit this trait)?

Why then, did I make the statement above?

Probably all of you have seen vintage knives that have had the blades savagely reshaped, perhaps in a garage sale, antique shop, flea market, tool swap, or on the big auction site. Originally, I thought that the reshaping was due to the owner being an overzealous sharpener or perhaps using a highly subtractive sharpening process. But now I think that most of these were hard-use knives that had to be sharpened often because the high carbon dulled so quickly. Thus, they were reshaped, in ways not entirely desirable, by that repeated sharpening over time. Bill Howard likes to tell us that “Carbon Keeps Cutting,” and to convince us even stamps it on some of his tangs, but that dictum is only true if you keep sharpening constantly, especially in comparison with modern steels. The grotesque blades on those well-used vintage knives are the best evidence of this.

My post in the original 2018 forum knife thread was apparently just about the last straw for one of our fine Mods before he shut it down. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/2018-bf-traditional-knife.1569227/page-72. In that post, I mildly railed against those who were clamoring for Buck primarily (in my view) because Buck would provide a better blade steel than 1095. But, I’ve come to realize that those people were right. Mea culpa.

CPM-154 is not on the cutting edge (no irony intended) anymore. It’s not nearly as superior as the M390 in Mike Latham’s Roundhead/Shuffler/Dom but it really is quite good. It should be the baseline steel that we expect on a traditional knife, at least on one that is made today.

So today, for the first time in several years, I find myself with the 2018 Forum Knife in my right front pocket and no modern folder clipped to my left. Because, even in hard use, this is a traditional knife that will cut and keep cutting. That’s what makes it great.
 
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Whoa, mama, look at this elk! Definitely worth the wait. I don't think I could have picked it better myself.

Color me tickled. Now that I have my knives in hand, the only real (and very minor) criticism I can level against them is I wish the pulls were a little deeper. They work fine, but I'd like to get a little better hold with my nail. Otherwise, I'm one happy camper.

I'd like to thank Stephen and everyone on the forum for making this happen, but I'm not sure if this is the right place to do it or if it should be done in a new poll.
 
WoodManGM said:
These are great knives!

No, the quality is not as good as GEC, in my estimation. The action is somewhat mediocre on both of my examples, even after cleaning and flushing with Quick Release Oil (thanks to @Chief for that tip, it did help). And why does Buck have to make their pivot pins so visible, even protuberant (I have to assume this is their norm because both of my forum knives and a 501 "Goodfella" that I recently acquired from SK exhibit this trait)?

Why then, did I make the statement above?

Probably all of you have seen vintage knives that have had the blades savagely reshaped, perhaps in a garage sale, antique shop, flea market, tool swap, or on the big auction site. Originally, I thought that the reshaping was due to the owner being an overzealous sharpener or perhaps using a highly subtractive sharpening process. But now I think that most of these were hard-use knives that had to be sharpened often because the high carbon dulled so quickly. Thus, they were reshaped, in ways not entirely desirable, by that repeated sharpening over time. Bill Howard likes to tell us that “Carbon Keeps Cutting,” and to convince us even stamps it on some of his tangs, but that dictum is only true if you keep sharpening constantly, especially in comparison with modern steels. The grotesque blades on those well-used vintage knives are the best evidence of this.

My post in the original 2018 forum knife thread was apparently just about the last straw for one of our fine Mods before he shut it down. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/2018-bf-traditional-knife.1569227/page-72. In that post, I mildly railed against those who were clamoring for Buck primarily (in my view) because Buck would provide a better blade steel than 1095. But, I’ve come to realize that those people were right. Me culpa.

CPM-154 is not on the cutting edge (no irony intended) anymore. It’s not nearly as superior as the M390 in Mike Latham’s Roundhead/Shuffler/Dom but it really is quite good. It should be the baseline steel that we expect on a traditional knife, at least on one that is made today.

So today, for the first time in several years, I find myself with the 2018 Forum Knife in my right front pocket and no modern folder clipped to my left. Because, even in hard use, this is a traditional knife that will cut and keep cutting. That’s what makes it great.
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Shurke said:
Whoa, mama, look at this elk! Definitely worth the wait....
Color me tickled. Now that I have my knives in hand, the only real (and very minor) criticism I can level against them is .......
I'd like to thank Stephen and everyone on the forum for making this happen ...
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I also received mine today (came last week, but I was out of town), and my sample turned out to be really good. The only thing that bugs me is that the pull on the main clip blade is way too close to the swedge where the blade spine drops/angles towards the tip. In my opinion the pull would have looked much better (aesthetically speaking) if it was not as close to the swedge. I noticed that in some of the knives shown here this is a lot more visible, with the pull almost touching the swedge.
Raul
 
WoodManGM said:
I wouldn't call him a charlatan, merely intransigent on the subject of knife steels.

I certainly hope he remains happy and healthy and making knives for many more years.
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Intransigent is a great thing when it comes to traditionals (to me anyways) and I'm glad Bill is. I couldn't be happier that it takes in the neighborhood of 200 hand made steps to produce his wonderful knives:thumbsup:

That said, I really like my Buck forum knife:thumbsup:
 
WoodManGM said:
These are great knives!

No, the quality is not as good as GEC, in my estimation. The action is somewhat mediocre on both of my examples, even after cleaning and flushing with Quick Release Oil (thanks to @Chief for that tip, it did help). And why does Buck have to make their pivot pins so visible, even protuberant (I have to assume this is their norm because both of my forum knives and a 501 "Goodfella" that I recently acquired from SK exhibit this trait)?

Why then, did I make the statement above?

Probably all of you have seen vintage knives that have had the blades savagely reshaped, perhaps in a garage sale, antique shop, flea market, tool swap, or on the big auction site. Originally, I thought that the reshaping was due to the owner being an overzealous sharpener or perhaps using a highly subtractive sharpening process. But now I think that most of these were hard-use knives that had to be sharpened often because the high carbon dulled so quickly. Thus, they were reshaped, in ways not entirely desirable, by that repeated sharpening over time. Bill Howard likes to tell us that “Carbon Keeps Cutting,” and to convince us even stamps it on some of his tangs, but that dictum is only true if you keep sharpening constantly, especially in comparison with modern steels. The grotesque blades on those well-used vintage knives are the best evidence of this.

My post in the original 2018 forum knife thread was apparently just about the last straw for one of our fine Mods before he shut it down. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/2018-bf-traditional-knife.1569227/page-72. In that post, I mildly railed against those who were clamoring for Buck primarily (in my view) because Buck would provide a better blade steel than 1095. But, I’ve come to realize that those people were right. Me culpa.

CPM-154 is not on the cutting edge (no irony intended) anymore. It’s not nearly as superior as the M390 in Mike Latham’s Roundhead/Shuffler/Dom but it really is quite good. It should be the baseline steel that we expect on a traditional knife, at least on one that is made today.

So today, for the first time in several years, I find myself with the 2018 Forum Knife in my right front pocket and no modern folder clipped to my left. Because, even in hard use, this is a traditional knife that will cut and keep cutting. That’s what makes it great.
Click to expand...

I would argue that it had less to do with the steel and more to do with the fact that many of these folks only carried one knife until it was no longer functional. My dad would buy a pocket knife, use the dickens out of it, take it to a grinder to sharpen it back up, and wash-rinse-repeat. The knives that you are referencing were likely not owned by collectors or enthusiasts but hard working folks who used their knives hard. One at a time.

I understand your argument and yes, there are numerous steels out there that are superior to 1095 but personally, I never carry just one knife long enough for it to matter. It serves my needs perfectly well and is one of the more traditional steels available so I appreciate it being used in the patterns I enjoy.

With ease of dulling comes ease of sharpening. I skinned an elk with a knife in s30v once. It outlasted all of my buddies' knives in terms of sharpness but when it came time to sharpen mine, I lacked the necessary equipment in the field to bring it back to a serviceable edge. The rods that my companions brought could sharpen up 1095 or 420HC easily enough but it would have taken me all night to sharpen mine. It was an excellent lesson for me.

I appreciate fine steels. I have knives in 3v, s35vn, m390, etc. and I love them all for what they are. But the bulk of my hard use outdoors knives and traditional cutlery is comprised of 1095. It is a tough steel that takes a keen edge and is easy to sharpen.

Buck did a wonderful job on the Forum knife, even with all the problems. I appreciate the use of the CPM-154, it provides us all with a different experience and for that I am grateful. But it certainly does not change my mind at all in regards to 1095.
 
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Wanted to share both of mine with some observations.
The top knife has some great elk, both in style and thickness. It does have some gaps in the back spring and a sunken joint on the secondary, neither of which bother me.

The bottom knife, however, suffers from some serious blade peek on the clip. It is lacking a swedge which I personally like. I feel that without the swedge it allows a more aesthetically pleasing view of the long pull. It has a crack at the pin, also. No gaps on the springs. It’s interesting that the clip that peeks is actually 3/16” longer than the other knife’s clip.

The top knife’s clip, even though it doesn’t peek, is quite close to the top of the liners. I’m not sure how many sharpenings it will accept before it begins to peek though. I’m wondering if anyone else’s clip blade comes extremely close to peeking?

This is my 4th Annual Bladeforums Knife. I always enjoy taking part in the process that is the Annual Bladeforums Knife. Every year is different and gives one a chance to try out a knife that might be a little out of their box. Thanks to skblades and all involved!
 
Pàdruig said:
But the bulk of my hard use outdoors knives and traditional cutlery is comprised of 1095. It is a tough steel that takes a keen edge and is easy to sharpen.
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I must respectfully disagree.

On the issue of toughness: I have a #71 in 1095. I think that most people would agree that this pattern is a working man's knife. So I put it to work, breaking down cardboard boxes. During the course of an hour's work, I inadvertently rapped the cutting edge against the vertical lip at the opening of the molded plastic recycling bin. I was incredulous to find a triangular chip in the cutting edge measuring 1/16" on a side. This presented an opportunity for an experiment. I pulled out my modern folder in S30v and smacked the edge vigorously and repeatedly against the recycling bin lip. No chips were created in the modern steel by this activity.

As you might imagine, it took a substantial amount of time to remove the chip from the cutting edge of the 1095. Far longer than it took to bring back the edge of the "hard to sharpen" S30v. And I find CPM-154 easier to sharpen than S30v.
 
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WoodManGM said:
I must respectfully disagree.

On the issue of toughness: I have a #71 in 1095. I think that most people would agree that this pattern is a working man's knife. So I put it to work, breaking down cardboard boxes. During the course of an hour's work, I inadvertently rapped the cutting edge against the vertical lip at the opening of the molded plastic recycling bin. I was incredulous to find a triangular chip in the cutting edge measuring 1/16" on a side. This presented an opportunity for an experiment. I pulled out my modern folder in S30v and smacked the edge vigorously and repeatedly against the recycling bin lip. No chips were created in the modern steel by this activity.

As you might imagine, it took a substantial amount of time to remove the chip from the cutting edge of the 1095. Far longer than it took to bring back the edge of the "hard to sharpen" S30v. And I find CPM-154 easier to sharpen than S30v.
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It is safe to say that neither of our experiences is going to trump the other. I have found that one of the surest tests of edge retention for a knife is to skin a large animal. You are going to experience tissue, bone, cartilage, dirt and debris embedded in the hair, and all sorts of other stuff. You will do more work with your knife than the average knife collector does in a year when you skin and dress out an elk. It takes a toll. Was I grateful that I had a knife in s30v with me that particular day? Absolutely! I could continue working where my buddies had to stop and touch up their edges. But I would not have been able to sharpen my knife using the standard methods unless I was willing to devote a significant amount of time to it.

I've used 1095 in some form or another all of my life. It is what Kabars are made of, including numerous other brands. There is very good reason why that steel exists and why it continues to get used to this very day. It is fact that when any steel typically used in cutlery is properly heat treated, it is going to perform within its parameters, even steels that are commonly looked down upon like 440.

I am not arguing that 1095 is a superior steel. I am simply stating that it is a steel that functions perfectly well for what it is. A tough steel (properly heat treated) that takes a keen edge and is easily sharpened (you aren't going to find many here who will disagree with that). Discussing the merits of specific steels can be a rather subjective discussion so I understand that you may feel differently and that is more than fine, we are on a forum where such discussions are encouraged.

A couple of things that I might add: Fixing chips is completely different then maintaining a serviceable edge. Sharpening out chips involves the removal of a fair amount of steel versus simply getting your edge into proper cutting shape. You can sharpen 1095 on the bottom of a coffee cup of all things, you cannot do that with a "super steel". Perhaps you might (I've never tried), but it will certainly take you a considerable amount of time.

Perhaps we do live in an age where the base line steel for traditional slip joints should be nothing less than CPM-154. If that is the case, then it stands to reason that a very considerable number of collectors, users, and enthusiasts will become somewhat alienated. 1095 is a steel that is going to be around for a long time because it has been proven to work. However, if it truly is such an antiquated steel and not capable of whatever tasks we might attempt to perform, then someone ought to inform Kabar, Tops, Esee, GEC, etc. that they are doing it wrong. (obviously, I say this tongue in cheek :D)

The fact remains: I think that 1095 is a perfectly functional steel. You disagree. I find no issue with that, we are all welcome to our opinions. All I can do is share my experience, which is rather extensive (closest you will come to hearing me boast), but I cannot make you see things the way I do nor do I want to.

If we all had the same opinions, life would be rather dull indeed, wouldn't it? :)
 
Pàdruig said:
... I would not have been able to sharpen my knife using the standard methods unless I was willing to devote a significant amount of time to it...
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That's true if you're sharpening a decent-sized bevel. Put a low-angle back bevel on it, like 10-12 degrees per side and then put a microbevel on at 15-20 dps, and you can touch it up in no time. That's because you have to take off only a small amount of steel to regain a sharp apex. Using a super steel with a traditional geometry gives you traditional performance and a sharpening problem. But it costs more. Worst of all worlds. I have never seen a decent edge geometry come from any factory, ever. To get top performance, you have to fix that. An Edgepro is my favorite way to do that.
 
paulhilborn said:
Intransigent is a great thing when it comes to traditionals (to me anyways) and I'm glad Bill is. I couldn't be happier that it takes in the neighborhood of 200 hand made steps to produce his wonderful knives:thumbsup:

That said, I really like my Buck forum knife:thumbsup:
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I, too, applaud his intransigence when it comes to the form of the knife. But a better steel does not change the form of the knife in any way (Even our own forum guidelines recognize this fact). It only makes for a better cutting tool.
 
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