Four day hiking trip and no knives allowed?

A lot of posts suggest packing a knife and not mentioning it. I wouldn't be surprised if they do a pack check.

Doc
 
Hopefully I'm not repeating much but I couldn't get through 5 pages of posts. As for the rules they're there to keep incompetent idiots from slicing their fingers off and having a medical emergency in the middle of nowhere. Legal precaution nothing more.

But, if I were you I would definately take a multitool and a good folder. The fixed blade is up to you. For some reason a fixed is regarded as more of a weapon than a similar sized folder.:confused: If you don't mind the weight, I would stash a hatchet in the bottom of the pack too. All of the other essentials I would take too. Just because they're leading a hike doesn't mean they know what they're doing.
 
yeah, i am kinda worried about a pack check. would make sense if they did to make sure we didn't have any food that bears could smell (like bags of chips, etc). If i had a smaller fixed blade i could keep it in one of my cargo pockets until i get out there and then put that in my pack.

Or i could go SAK and a good folder and hope i don't need to baton anything. the saw on the SAK should keep my covered in an emergency. I'm also considering a folding saw instead of a fixed blade. And i'll have a second SAK in my PSK.

Thanks again for all the responses. I'll be sure to update after the trip to let you all know how it turned out, and i'll keep count of the number of times i need a knife.
 
You are an adult & paid to go on the trip, I dont think legally that they can search your pack, if they tried, I would leave !!!
I would also tell them to give my money back! You have rights as far as a pack search goes!
 
I couldn't resist the temptation to carry a SAK on a string around my neck just so I could say "Oh thats not a knife, this is a knife" as I pulled out my Ka-bar heavy bowie.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Whether it is a "weapon" or a tool is a matter of intent. You would have a hard time convincing a sane juror that a SAK is a "weapon" unless actually used as one.


Speaking officially, you are incorrect. The policy is in writing and it "discourages" "large" sheath knives on the basis of lack of necessity and functionality in the BSA program. Anything you hear beyond that is an expression of ignorance and prejudice by the author.
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Actually, the policy reads: A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish.

On a local level, this has been construed as applying to all fixed blades and not just "large" sheath knives. It probably stems from a concern about public perceptions of the display of sheath knives compared to less obvious pocket knives and cased folders. Hence my reference to unofficial. It probably isn't ignorance or prejudice but simply a misinterpretation of the policy.

My point is that even among outdoor oriented groups, there are differences in opinions about the types of knives that are carried or in Marzola's case, if they should be carried at all. Hopefully, when he returns from his trip, he can solve this particular mystery for us.

GB
 
I was leery at first reading this thread, thinking it'd be fine to just have one stashed away, still might be fun.

Now? Screw the money you paid, do not waste four days of your life getting roped into this. If it was that much, fight it out and get at least a partial refund. If it wasn't, still go for the refund but do not look back.

I don't think you're going to get brain-washed...You're going to get eye-rolling lectures swamped on you for days on end, while people either fall for it or plot to escape despite being stranded in the woods with these people. If I got roped into something like this...I'd give it a day. One day to see how things would work out, get to know the guides and procedures. Get a map whether they'll give you one or not, keep some supplies, because I would get the heck out of there and take some grateful people with me. Do realize that while you are on National Park or private property, they cannot retain you legally, you're still a human being and a citizen.

Personal suggestions if you don't follow the main advice... stashed away cell phone to threaten calling the police for kidnapping which is what they would be doing to retain you, a red LED for night vision, an SAK, and some food for the way back.

If they try to search you for any of that...Just turn around and drive off.
 
Tim the Slugman said:
You are an adult & paid to go on the trip, I dont think legally that they can search your pack, if they tried, I would leave !!!
I would also tell them to give my money back! You have rights as far as a pack search goes!
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"legally"

The right to be free from unreasobale searches is a right vs. government, not a private institution. Employers legally search employee's lockers all the time and monitor your emails routinely and legally.

We do not know enough to judge legalities because we don't know what the young man has already agreed to by enrolling.

Pack "shakedowns" are routine where the backpackers are presumed to be novices. So here we have incompetents/agents of incompetents who may search the presumed novice's packs to be sure they are behaving unsafely.

I would be prepared to argue, as suggested abive, that the rule against knives is so unpredictable, since contrary to all good practice, that a refund is due.



Keep it in your boot until any pack search is over.
 
Gerberblades said:
Actually, the policy reads: A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish.

On a local level, this has been construed as applying to all fixed blades and not just "large" sheath knives. It probably stems from a concern about public perceptions of the display of sheath knives compared to less obvious pocket knives and cased folders. Hence my reference to unofficial. It probably isn't ignorance or prejudice but simply a misinterpretation of the policy.

My point is that even among outdoor oriented groups, there are differences in opinions about the types of knives that are carried or in Marzola's case, if they should be carried at all. Hopefully, when he returns from his trip, he can solve this particular mystery for us.

GB
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Found it did you? Good. You note the operative words "large" and "unnecessary." I do as part of my role in training adult leaders for three Scout Councils.

I also note that the official policy does not say that even such "large" knives are prohibited, much less that non-"large" sheath knives are prohibited.

I also point out that Council "trading posts" at camps that prohibit all fixed-blade knives sell such knives as part of the official BSA "Chef's Kit" and that Scout Troops that prohibit all fixed-blade knives almost always have them in the gear they issue to the Scouts.

So rather than take the opportunity to teach youth how to safety use a tool that they will, with virtually 100% certainly, encounter, we are to pretend that no such tool exists? Marvelous. :rolleyes:

And hand axes? Perfectly acceptable -- and far more hazardous.

The local policies are the result of ignorance, prejudice, and/or stupidity. I have talked (calmly - as one should to the insane) to the persons responsible for such rules. They are not "outdoor" people in any sense. In fact they have very little or absolutlely no outdoor experience -- "suits." They have no experience -- or facts gained otherwise -- to support their paranoia.

I have an obligation to be polite. I have no obligation to help them in their irrationality.
 
You said you had a friend that went through this before. Make sure you ask him for all the details of what you'll do and if theyll search your person or packs.
 
When I was in Boy Scouts we did "shakedowns" before trips to make sure you had everything. The scout leaders made sure you HAD a knife. I'm sure that it is because it is a school thing and people nowdays are uber-paranoid about violence.

I'm a scofflaw, so I'd say screw 'em and bring a knife that I wouldn't miss if they confiscated it. An Opinel would work.
 
I don't understand the "no knife"...

As for the "no watch"... Deals like this usually do some sort of "Time Deprevation" deal where they leave you completely alone in the woods with no way to tell time.. You REALLY lose track of time and how 1 hr can seem like 15 minutes and 15 minutes can seem like days!
 
Time displacement is an interrogation technique. I can see no iPods, but completely blocking out time flows more with them trying to get you worn down for their soapbox pitch. I have to admit some cults try the same thing, but this seems more like psychological sales techniques.

I can't stress enough that the gut feelings going around here are anything but positive. Don't do it.

I scoff at some finer survivalists beliefs, but the fact you have to submit entirely to their gear, schedule, and even food is not a good thing. I would not be surprised if they kept you guys off protein, rice and other light carbs, enough to survive but still a starvation tactic disguised as a health choice. The fact you're lucid as a person and independent makes you one of the last targets a cult or other odd group would want, doubt these things would do much but annoy you.

Why am I so personal with this? Some relatives of mine got into a ridiculous cult a while back. Same new age feel, same tactics on their retreats, overall it was just a hippie-ish scam run by some very tactful guy in charge making millions off these poor people.

My Deja Vu here worries me.
 
LittleHairyApe said:
No I meant unexpectable. Like not able to be expected. Unreasonable. Unimagineable.
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"unexpectable" is not found in Webster's. The word you probably wanted was "unexpected," which IS found in Webster's.

I really don't think you want to smoke my socks !! :D

.
 
I didn't read through this entire thread and maybe I should before I say this. But there are just some people you don't want to go into the woods with, and anyone who thinks all knives should stay at home is one of those people. Not only will I not go into the woods without at least one knife, but I also won't go into the woods with someone who thinks knives are unnecessary. It's a major red flag. That's someone who has no business stepping foot off of pavement. They aren't safe to be with. Stay home. Whatever money you've paid, either get it back or eat it.

I'm somewhat tempted to tell you that if you go on the trip, at least approach it as if you are performing a solo hike and plan on relying on no one around you. But you don't even want to do that. They're the type of people who get themselves hurt and if they do YOU'RE going to have to take care of them.

Stay home. Chase girls. Find good people to go backpacking with. Whatever. Just don't go into the woods with these nut jobs.

Just my two cents.
 
I think it's designed as a bonding experience for young adults who may not have been away from home OR in the woods before. That's why it's a trail hike, not camping out in the wilderness. Most of the restrictions are on distracting items of entertainment. Watches and cellphones fall into this category for many people.

Still, I like to carry a certain amount of gear no matter where I am, even on an hour's stroll through the "woods" in a local park. I always carry some kind of knife. Since I don't know when I might head home, I will carry something to eat, even if it's just juice and an energy bar.

I would be more comfortable going on a trip like this if they were more open about the nature of the program. I mean, if it were billed as a walk through a globally warmed landscape, I'd save them the trouble of putting up with my snickering and just stay home. :p
 
I would take the sak and edc. Will you really need to baton in this warm weather? Besides, a large FB will be very hard to conceal if they do a pack check.

There might be some history behind the policy that we are not aware of. Some hiker brandishing a large knife or injuring someone else or himself. Maybe you are expected to take a knife and the written policy covers their butt in case something happens? Always gotta think about liability.
 
I am of the mindset that my EDC gear goes where I go, regardless of silly "rules" made by silly people.

I'd never trust said silly people with my safety.

.
 
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