Four day hiking trip and no knives allowed?

Marzola said:
Note how there is no mention of a compass, matches, fire starter, first aid, etc.
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On the one hand that's pretty common on alot of guided trips, especially on trail and where absolute novice are involved - since complete newbies won't have much need or use of that stuff. They also want to keep packs as light as possible - very important when you are dealing with people who may never have hoisted a pack in their life. It's pretty common for guides to haul alot of the mundane stuff, leaving you with just your personal kit. Since they often do all the cooking and cleaning, etc. so that guests can better enjoy their trip. Guides also usually pack any emergency equipment, since they are responsible for you and certainly don't want to depend on your gear.

I used to run into guided trips in Glacier all the time (Glacier Guides is the only licensed outfitter for the park.) It was always funny to see a string of people carrying minimal packs and the lone guide with an absolute monster himalayan expedition type pack stuffed to the gills. Some of the guides would be carrying in excess of 40% of their own bodyweight in those packs - on multiple days over mountain passes that's impressive.

That list also tells you that your 'wilderness' experience will not include any training or practice in actual wilderness living. If you were going to be learning wilderness living they would want you to bring such items.

As others have intimated the true purpose of your wilderness experience is to provide an isolated and controlled (that's the no clocks/watches part) environment more conducive to providing the 'real' training (whatever that may be - religious, team building, socialist indoctrination, whatever.) Get a group of people out in a foreign environment and they become much more docile and responsive to the perceived leader/experts.
 
Marzola- You got your advice and I'll bet you knew what the answer would be from this bunch. My kids got Gerber Guardians as stocking stuffers last Christmas so you know where I coming from.

It may be that the group leaders feel intimidated by their "students" carrying any weapons. Or it may simply be a lack of trust as some have suggested. Or it may be some deeply rooted philosophical thing or a desire to make the students feel vulnerable. I can't imagine but I'm starting to smell patchouli oil here.

The Boy Scouts have kind of an unofficial leaning against carrying fixed blades these days. I think it is mostly about perceptions.

If you are in bear country, I would recommend a handgun if it is lawful and within your abilities and training, etc. Whatever you carry should be discreetly maintained and no one will be the wiser. Except you.

GB
 
havent read the whole thing,

but i'm surprised they even let u carry shoes!

just carry a sak
i carry one even here in the city

but yeah they might be planning to take u on an airport or something who knows?
 
Tanguay Custom Knives said:
The only place I will go where I can't carry a knife is a commercial airplane and a courtroom, and I hope I can avoid both of those the rest of my life too.

Not being allowed to carry a knife on a four day wilderness hike is just stupid.

My condolences.
Scott
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I could not have put that better myself. I simply wouldn't go. That is absurd.
 
It might be worth re-reading jacknife's post #82, then diving into their site again. That name rings a bell: a big, loud, kumbaya bell...

At least with all of this, you're already prepared for their indoctrination attempt.

From what I've read of their site, these are not guided wilderness tours. They probably have someone with guide certification in management to maintain their credentials, but the people 'on the ground' so to speak appear to be camp counsellors, judging by the 'help wanted' section of their site. These are touchy-feely group empowerment exercises. Teamwork and trust exercises aren't really what I would describe as relevant to the competitive environment of academic studies...Don't get me wrong, it could be a blast - but on your terms, not theirs.
 
I sold a number of sheath knives to outdoor pursuit center students at Miami U. of Ohio while i worked there......The director encourged me to do this .....Different school of thinking..........carl...........ps...He still does............
 
I have read about several animal attacks lately where the person saved themselves with a 5 inch fixed blade knife, one wolf attack, & one couger attack & one bear attack. I would not go into the woods without A means to defend myself or others that might need my help, I think that it would be irresponsible!
 
I'll just reiterate what has been said a few times already. As a new adult, you really need to take charge of your own safety. Not that there aren't consequences for doing the right thing - heck, they might really flip out if they find out you carried a knife onto this retreat - but the consequences of needing the knife but not having it could be much much worse. And I really doubt that this college's nanny mentality will mean much if you get separated from the group 2 days out from civilization.

As an aside, I have a 17 year old whom I am sending to college next year, and I would be very angry if the college I am sending mucho tuition bucks to would deliberately put my daughter at risk by prohibiting her carrrying such a critical piece of survival equipment. Especially since she has been trained in the use and importance of her knives since she was in grade school.

Again, distrust the motives and competence of anyone who would withold from you an essential safety tool. All you have to do is type "ten essentials" in Google to see how universal the recommendation is for carrying a knife in the wilderness.
 
There's nothing I can add. Several folks said it for me before I got to this thread. I agree that this is some kind of creepy setup designed to do something unexpected and probably disagreeable - something you wouldn't want to pay money in which to partake.

Furthermore, I'm sure they are onto the old "hide a knife in a bedroll trick", since they are probably well-used to people objecting to having their civil rights violated. But they aren't going to really search you until they get you into their territory surrounded by their people, so I recommend you shine-on the money loss. Call it tuition, and forget about the 96 hour indoctrination/brain wash. Save yourself the sleep deprivation, bread and water rations, waterboarding, or whatever fun and games they plan for you for the next 4 days.

Oh, and if they sent you "the rules" after you paid, you need to get a cash refund. The rules are unreasonable and unexpectable, IMHO. That's cheating, and you can sue them in small claims court.
 
I guess there is really nothing substantial for me to add. Heck I smiled a lot while reading these responses. And Powernoodle you have it sussed!!!

I'm guessing that safety will be the major fear here for the organizers. They don't want to be sued because somebody suffered an injury while under their supervision. So if you take a knife, and do manage to cut yourself, the organizers are partly saved from liability because they specifically ruled that there will be no knives. And I think there may be quite a few people around who wouldn't have a clue about using a knife safely. If you do take one, think before you let people know about it or share it.

If you need a weapon, there is a lot to be said for having a clear mind and a sturdy stick. The biggest need for a blade in the wilderness is as a tool. It doesn't need to be big, and as I reflect on my many years of using a knife I have to say that generally the blade does not have to be fixed or have a lock to cover most possibilities. Being capable of being opened with one hand does make it handier though.

I would not want to advise you to break the law, but personally there would be few places I would go without a blade of some sort. I feel totally naked without one. But I would choose a blade suitable for the occasion.

I would not have a knife that everybody would instantly recognize as a knife if they saw part of it.... so a red SAK would not be my choice.

A small, slim, single blade in a dark colour would be good. In fact two of them. One jammed somewhere into the frame of my pack maybe, and one in my pocket. If you had time, maybe you could organize some sort of a neck knife that looks like a bit of ethnic jewellery. A multi-tool could be very handy, and it doesn't have quite the same 'offensive' look about it that some people might see.

But if you do find yourself in a tricky situation without a blade, you may be surprised at how you cope if you calmly think about what is required.
 
Hmmmmmm, bunch of guys just out of HS...
I can understand the no knife rule, from the school's or hosting group's perspective.
That doesn't mean I totally agree with it, but I can understand it.
The OP is a knifeknut and (most likely) knows the ins and outs of knife use.
Doesn't mean the rest of the kids (I can say kids...I'm 51) on the trip do.
In our litigatious (sp?) society, they are just covering their butts incase junior sticks a SAK in his thigh while pointing a stick.
From their point of view it makes total sense.
From the knifeknut's it doesn't.

I won't tell you to bring a knife or not.
But would suggest a space blanket, firestarter, tinder, signal mirror and all the other 'lost in the woods' items that we should all bring. Maybe it will enlighten the group leader.
Get a map of the area you will be in and take that as well...with your compass of course.

As for the no watches thing...no brain washing or ulterior motives.
So many people live by their watches ("It's noon so I must be hungry"), maybe they just want you to enjoy and let your regular routine go by the wayside.
 
Gerberblades said:
...
It may be that the group leaders feel intimidated by their "students" carrying any weapons.
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Whether it is a "weapon" or a tool is a matter of intent. You would have a hard time convincing a sane juror that a SAK is a "weapon" unless actually used as one.

. . .
The Boy Scouts have kind of an unofficial leaning against carrying fixed blades these days.. . .
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Speaking officially, you are incorrect. The policy is in writing and it "discourages" "large" sheath knives on the basis of lack of necessity and functionality in the BSA program. Anything you hear beyond that is an expression of ignorance and prejudice by the author.
 
I think they might consider a hatchet a "knife".

Anyways im going to have to agree with everyone else on this. When I first read your post I thought that maybe they were gonna lead you out somewhere to recruit you into a cult... Maybe ive been watching too much TV? lol.

Since its the "wilderness school" saying you cant bring the knife and you school feels that if your not breaking any laws then screw the "wilderness school".

If I were you, I would bring a PSK with the works. Then carry a locking folder in my pockets and a medium to large sized fixed blade in the pack. Keep it discreet and when you do need to use your knife try to be quick with it. No one is going to tell me to not bring a knife if im going on a hiking trip, let alone for four days.

Oh and if they search you, tell them good riddence and call home for a ride. My parents may not be crazy about me carrying knives for EDC but at least my dad has the sense to know that a cutting tool is really important in the wilderness. He carries a leatherman supertool with him when we go hiking.

Now if they are going to teach you how to survive (which i doubt) like starting fires using a bow drill or knapping a flint knife, I would still carry my gear but purely as backup since I dont want to mess with the learning experiance.
 
Have the idiot log on here and we'll try to talk some sense into him. My six year old boy carries his own knife now. I run first timers in the bush and give them a machete and knife each. I've never had a problem with it. I have told many of them, "The first sign of you fooling around or not handling that properly and it goes in my pack." I have never had the slightest problem. Knife handling is such an important skill we go over it constantly out there. It kind of makes me wonder what his teaching objectives are.

I can understand the watch thing. The leader has one for sure. I ban cell phones for some groups (I always have mine and a backup with someone else), Ipods, MP3 Players Radios, etc. I want them to disconnect form their former routine. Mac
 
David E said:
unexpectable ??

Did you mean "unacceptable?"

I suppose you wouldn't expect silly rules that are unacceptable, so I guess both would work.........(sorta!)

:D
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No I meant unexpectable. Like not able to be expected. Unreasonable. Unimagineable. That sort of idea. I've read yours over several times, and I can't even figure out what you wrote. What brand of socks are you smoking? I wanna try em too.
 
I did not read all the posts, but I can't figure out the "no watch" thing. As far as having no knife, I do not think it is a good idea to venture out for 4 days without one. I would still go on the trip, but I would stash something small and discrete somewhere. I would not bring it out ever duing the trip unless it turned out you actually needed it for an emergency. I have been out on trips to the woods where I never needed my knife (both Boy Scouts and Army), and that may be the case for you too on this trip. Just be discrete and keep you mouth shut about having one with you. Have fun!
 
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