French regional knives...

Jolipapa Jolipapa thanks a lot for this explanation of the Rumillly system :):thumbsup:

You are right , then problem of this locking mouche was to be a mix of two systems.
The locking ring need a very supple spring which is almost not a spring. It's only used to maintain the blades locked . The spring of the mouche on the Laguiole is a real spring . It means that it modify the movement of the blade .
I think that after a while the cutlers realized that the mouche and a strong spring were enough to make the system secure and the action of the spring on the blade more interesting than another locking system .


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PS : not sure to have been understandable :(
 
Yes, I understand!!:) Good explanation!!

The springs on the French knives I have received have all felt secure.
The "action" feels different than some slipjoints without the "notching" you see in Laguioles, but they are very equal IMO!
 
Âchillepattada said:
Jolipapa Jolipapa thanks a lot for this explanation of the Rumillly system :):thumbsup:

You are right , then problem of this locking mouche was to be a mix of two systems.
The locking ring need a very supple spring which is almost not a spring. It's only used to maintain the blades locked . The spring of the mouche on the Laguiole is a real spring . It means that it modify the movement of the blade .
I think that after a while the cutlers realized that the mouche and a strong spring were enough to make the system secure and the action of the spring on the blade more interesting than another locking system .


Â
PS : not sure to have been understandable :(
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You made it very clear :thumbsup:
 
As I've noted before, many French knives- Lags in particular- are easy to open but have strong springs making closing safer(more difficult) this is the way I like it:thumbsup: Fontenille-Pataud's locking Lags are especially well done, they have a tab at the end of the bolster which is actually the backspring which you depress.

On another thread, somebody voiced the view that filework guillochage makes a knife's spring inherently weaker. I question that as it depends surely on the skill of the cutler, the quality of steel&heat treat etc. Anyway, never had a spring break on a French knife yet ;) so I remain sceptical about the weakening claim-otherwise filework would've been abandoned long ago:rolleyes:
 
Will Power said:
On another thread, somebody voiced the view that filework guillochage makes a knife's spring inherently weaker. I question that as it depends surely on the skill of the cutler, the quality of steel&heat treat etc. Anyway, never had a spring break on a French knife yet ;) so I remain sceptical about the weakening claim-otherwise filework would've been abandoned long ago:rolleyes:
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It can be true, but it's also the result of another philosophy. Today we are looking for traditional knives but without the inconvenient of the tradition. In the past , in every fair there was a cutler and the farmers could come to make their over-used knife blade changed . So it was better to have a soft blade easy to sharpen ( which could be changed when over-used) than a strong and resistant blades, immortal.. and impossible to sharpen without a diamond-stone .
Same philosophy with the spring. When broken it could be changed and sometime even for free.

Today we want an unbreakable knife ... which is used once a year :D

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A little polishing before to fly towards its new owner .

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Âchillepattada said:
It can be true, but it's also the result of another philosophy. Today we are looking for traditional knives but without the inconvenient of the tradition. In the past , in every fair there was a cutler and the farmers could come to make their over-used knife blade changed . So it was better to have a soft blade easy to sharpen ( which could be changed when over-used) than a strong and resistant blades, immortal.. and impossible to sharpen without a diamond-stone .
Same philosophy with the spring. When broken it could be changed and sometime even for free.

Today we want an unbreakable knife ... which is used once a year :D

Â
Click to expand...

So very very true!

In peoples quest for the ultimate blade, they sometimes forget the lessons they could learn from the people that are out there doing the real work. The city knife snob could learn a lot from the peasant field hand.
 
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jackknife said:
So very very true!

In peoples quest for the ultimate blade, they sometimes forget the lessons they could learn from the people that are out there doing the real work. The city knife snob could learn a lot from the peasant field hand.
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Thoughtful statement!! I like to think my preferences are informed by the work I have done, pre-retirement!!:D
 
waynorth said:
Thoughtful statement!! I like to think my preferences are informed by the work I have done, pre-retirement!!:D
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I have no doubt of that. We are all shaped by our lives experience of who we are, what we are, and where we are whole doing that. Whatever 'that' is. In the normal course of life, we as young folks would have the guidance of our elders. Fathers, uncles, older co-workers. If we're lucky to have a lick of common sense and a little bit of smarts, we learn from them and avoid too many bad mistakes on our own.

But...all to often in life, and the modern cutlery industry in general, too many young people with little or no guidance makes some unwise choices. A profit driven industry can capitalize on that to sell a product that may not be the best for the consumer. The wonder steel of the month as preached by the knife magazines is a doubtful thing.
 
jackknife said:
So very very true!

In peoples quest for the ultimate blade, they sometimes forget the lessons they could learn from the people that are out there doing the real work. The city knife snob could learn a lot from the peasant field hand.
Click to expand...

There's a lot rich rural knife snobs. First Randall I saw in private hands was a late 40s blade in a beat farm truck in NE right next to the rancher's 45 auto in the console. I bought a Moki pendant slipjoint from him out of a tackle box chock full with collectibles. Randall was not for sale, just show :) Another rancher I met in a Mound City, MO cafe bought my Schrade sausage/melon knife from me after admiring it. He's a customer of Ralph Turnbull.
 
waynorth said:
I have noticed that many locking knives have supple or light springs.
Theoretically that might help to lift the "mouche", but cutlers have struggled with blade locks forever!! Back locks, center locks, liner locks, Paul (rotating) locks, on and on!!!
I like the "tail" locks (butt locks:rolleyes:) on some current French productions.
I just ordered one disguised as a rooster's comb (5 coqs)!:)
One of the most difficult locks I have is a press-button knife, which requires you to twist/push the "cross guard" to unlock it! It lifts an Italian version of a "mouche"!:confused:
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Pollock ;):D
jackson-pollock-bleu.jpg
 
Was "la mouche" once upon the a time knife maker vernacular for a pull ring and later evolved - with back springs construction - into the decorative metal work bug we see now?
 
RayseM said:
Was "la mouche" once upon the a time knife maker vernacular for a pull ring and later evolved - with back springs construction - into the decorative metal work bug we see now?
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No, in fact it was a certain Mr Mouche who alledgedly invented the system.
I can only suppose it was abandoned because it stressed the forged spring.
In Nogent the system was different with the spring sitting outside ("palme") better suited for a ring opener.
mongin-milan-corne-4.jpg


ELDE said:
Hi ,

Some years ago , 'Forge de Laguiole ' made a limited edition of a laguiole named ' Bridoulet ' , with a 'locking mouche' , thats the only link showing a Bridoulet that I could find :
http://dytic.over-blog.com/article-forge-de-laguiole-laguiole-de-jean-claude-83984398.html

ELDE
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Nice one, never heard of it :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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