Friend of mine found old Knifetest.com video/ THIS is the Joe X DESTRUCTION VIDEO Thread

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Laurarium said:
SHBM is a surefire option.
I suspect the blade to be a fluke, joe accidentally got a bad one, I don’t think busse quality could drop dramatically like that, this is not their spirit
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A 850€ (with European taxes) fluke…. Living overseas, as I live, great warranties don’t mean so much as for those who live in the USA. More shipping and more taxes to pay for the warranty replacement…
 
Some summary here.

Commentary on AFBM performance
The performance of AFBM with ESEE junlas being the benchmark as a light chopper isn’t too bad, except for the huge chipping which also weakened the blade to fail in the spine strike(which I think is not a good test, discussed later)
I suspect joe got a fluke, as chipping shouldn‘t occur on INFI prematurely
too small of a sample volume speaks little!
Commentary on test and review standard
Lateral load
In my opinion, light chopper type blades suffers the most in a TREE STUMP test, reason is that they are not particularly long or short, not very thick or thin. A long and thin blade like a Tramontina 22’ machete would easily bend till the handle is blocked by the tree stump. A very thick rigid blade can’t be bent to breakage even with whole body weight(e.g. Ares).In addition, due to longer blade, even compared to a shorter blade of the same thickness, light choppers still are easier to break with greater leverage. Light choppers apparently have superior lateral strength than a thin machete, higher prying ability than a short knife, they appear weaker due to the inconsistency of the non-scientific testing protocol: tree stump, which is something can’t be pryed open, thin blade flexing out of the way or being hard to bend simply being short doesn’t mean they are stronger or more capable, and such tests fail to tell that apart.
Spine wack
noody noticed this 😰
Laurarium said:
Alright guys, greetings hogs
while we are waiting for my buddy to dig up the FBM vid, I got sth to comment on the style of joex testing
It’s imperatiive to clarify that spine wacking is not a scientific or productive means of evaluating a knife.Here is the explanation

Fundamental mechanism
I am going to make an analogy, think of wacking a stick on to a tree, a corner of a wall or anything it can bend and wrap around, what happens?
The stick creaks from opposite the percussion point, and the stick barely hangs together by remaining tissue.
This is due to the portion of the stick beyond the percussion point traveling with inertia, and the remaining momentum causes an Internal Torque(or Bending Moment) and the farthest point from the nuetral axis is where the internal torque is the highest due to the longest moment arm.
This is very similar to how a crack forms on a relatively strong knife which is able to sustain the initial impact, since knives that breaks at the percussion point immediately upon contact, instead of cracking at the point across the blade is simply not tough enough to resist impact.

Application on a blade
The major geometric difference between the cross-section of a blade and a stick is that a blade has an edge
The edge on the opposite side of the percussion point sustain the maximum internal torque, since the apex is very weak, the blade closer to the nuetral axis, but thicker, takes the major load. If the main bevel is not rigid enough, the maximum internal torque would tear the apex and the crack would rapidly form across the blade, resulting in gross blade failure.
A wider knife would benefit form higher rigidity under force parallel to the blade, and a lower saber grind(stock thickness extending further) blade would benefit form wider cross-section in the higher internal torque areas.
Thus, this testing tends to benefit wide, lower saber ground knives, mainly because they have an wedgier edge that resists elongation better.

The problem with this test
This test suffers from being unable to reflect performance under any circumstances, as whenever you chop or baton, it is the spine which is strong, that is elongated and handles such impacts. In push cutting or slicing, the edge is being elongated, however, the blade is moving forward, thus, no residual momentum is tearing the edge, while the cutting itself is a low stress task.
Thus, this testing is of no reflection of a PRACTICAL strength of a blade, as it is always the SPINE that takes the demanding internal torque

Comparison with a similar yet fundamentally different test
The batoning into concrete block(used by Noss and Cliff and some bladesmiths ) seemed to be an equivalent test, as the motion is relative. However, the major difference is that the blade in a concrete batoning test is supported.
The momentum of the sledge hammer is immediately transfered into the concrete, never really accelerating the blade to a higher speed under which the “tearing effect” due to inertia is significant enough to induce a crack.
The batoning into concrete block is a very scientific test of the performance under extreme conditons against fracture, deformation and wear as well as general strength In a PRACTICAL way.


Conclusion
The joe x style spine wacking test is not scientific nor productive.
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Inconsistency and bias
Concrete Blocks and Cinder Blocks Tree Stump and Pallets ARE THEY EVEN CLOSE?
joe some times hits hard,sometimes hits soft, MAYBE due to survival lily being his friend, or secret sponsorship etc. Though I can‘t assume someone’s motivation, but I can definitely comment on what he actually did, which is inconsistent testing.
non-scientific
By stating this is not a scientific testing, it means this is nonsense with no usable conclusion, never say a test don’t need to be scientific, any test needs to be scientific.
Joe X CLEARLY lacks the ability to judge a knife’s performance by analysing the desingn, purpose or by eliminating inconsistent effcts

e.g.
The moral pathfinder is a lightweight survival knife developed for the swedish army for light brush clearing and fire making, it is very thin and slender, feather weight, high cutting ability, surves the purpose perfectly. Yet, Joe X catagorise it as a hyoed/overpriced blade, no sense
Buck knives 119 and 120. He tested 119 on fresh(not yet used for knife testing at that time )cross section, and 120 first on a split wood on the split section, then the cross section which had been heavily damaged by knife testing and is all blasty. He made no effort to eliminate such variantions,concluding the 119 is crap

Posting poorly analysed results is a kind of misinformation



Commentary on Joe x
Language & manner
vulgarity appeared in the vid and comment
Community moderation
Can‘t cope with random assumption, misinformation properly
Limited value
Think him as a guy who pays for the knife and beats the knife for you, not a sensible reviwer as a supply of evaluation


members here have been discussing his style, protocol, and the performace separately, though we can foucus on the AFBM performance, we can also discuss, the aspects of joe
 
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hugofeynman said:
A 850€ (with European taxes) fluke…. Living overseas, as I live, great warranties don’t mean so much as for those who live in the USA. More shipping and more taxes to pay for the warranty replacement…
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wouldn’t busse pay for the shipping? plus I don’t think the shipping is going to be nearly as expensive as the blade, just a fraction
a fluke can happen any where ,ok?
 
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Laurarium said:
wouldn’t busse pay for the shipping? plus I don’t think the shipping is going to be nearly as expensive as the blade, just a fraction
a fluke can happen any where ,ok?
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I know a fluke can happen anywhere, that’s why I usually only buy high quality products, I trust they have the best quality control, so I don’t need to use warranty replacements. My country customs is a pain in the neck I don’t like to deal with. Having to deal with them two times for the same knife is too much. And I mostly buy custom work, non trivial super heavy duty knives made one at a time, from non trivial alloys. Heat treated one at a time.
 
Laurarium said:
wouldn’t busse pay for the shipping? plus I don’t think the shipping is going to be nearly as expensive as the blade, just a fraction
a fluke can happen any where ,ok?
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But I’m sure Busse would pay for the shipping.
Now regarding JoeX knife, Busse can consider that it was intentional abuse and don’t want to replace the knife.
 
Quick note to everyone talking about the Busse guarantee: Remember that the knives are guaranteed against “unintentional major damage”.

I don’t believe JoeX “until it breaks” testing falls into that category (or should), as he is intentionally breaking the knives by eventually shooting them with a rifle - all of them break.
 
Regarding the warranty. I think they will still honor it. They pride themselves on having never refused a warranty or left a customer unsatisfied. Like someone said earlier, the only thing tougher than a Busse knife, is the Busse knife guarantee.

Joe wants to prove Busse is “promising something they cannot handle”

He will see.
 
In fact I say Busse should double down and send him some super guarantee. Joe will have no choice but to show how Busse keeps sending him more knives to blow up. Send him more knives than he has bullets.

Then the world will see,
The Busse gaurantee,
Is the best warranty,
In the industry.
Merry Christmas😁
 
Jack of All Blades said:
Regarding the warranty. I think they will still honor it. They pride themselves on having never refused a warranty or left a customer unsatisfied. Like someone said earlier, the only thing tougher than a Busse knife, is the Busse knife guarantee.

Joe wants to prove Busse is “promising something they cannot handle”

He will see.
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Jerry Busse will refund JoeX, he is a man of honor. JoeX published in his YouTube channel an email he received from mr Busse telling that.
 
hugofeynman said:
Jerry Busse will refund JoeX, he is a man of honor. JoeX published in his YouTube channel an email he received from mr Busse telling that.
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He then said he has no intention of reaching out for the warranty in his youtube comments. He is dead set on the path he has chosen.

Edit: And after the things he said about Jerry's wife I don't think he deserves a new blade anyway.
 
Jack of All Blades said:
Getting a lot of people echoing to Facebook and YouTube that bladeforums is “deleting” peoples threads and won’t let people discuss the test which is absolutely false.
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I want to personally thank you for replying. Joe didn't start that rumor but when I read it I got hot and not only ran my mouth but talked about it in a 30 minute video-
Wrongfully.
I deleted the video before it ever went up and edited my comment.
I should never have spoken without confirming and your comment in the video is what kept me from openly making a fool of myself.
 
Jack of All Blades said:
Had a Barkie in A2 chip twice on wood. With Busse I’ve cut aluminum poles in half on concrete with little edge damage that was caused by the concrete below the pole.

Rewatching the video the amount of effort he’s pulling on that thin anorexic tip is amazing. Cutting through the car door with zero edge damage. The only thing that seemed to damage it was cutting through rocks at 60hrc.

Aus8, sk85, and machetes certainly aren’t 60hrc.
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Aus8a and sk85 can most certainly be 60hrc, and sk85 actually would greatly benefit from it. Larrin has done great work and one thing he has demonstrated is potential hardness that are not only achievable to regular steels but the benefits of doing it and at which point those benefits begin to degrade.
 
Funny thing is that the warranty expressly says intentional destruction is not warrantied, but they have always replaced intentionally destructed blades, lol. Obviously Busse has always been honorable. I find the idiots making comments to be funny. One says not to return the knife pieces so Busse can't make all evidence disappear. They odiously are children and haven't seen how busse has warrantied destroyed blades all the way back to the 90's. When Cliff destroyed the Basic 7 busse replaced it.
 
Fumetsu said:
He then said he has no intention of reaching out for the warranty in his youtube comments. He is dead set on the path he has chosen.

Edit: And after the things he said about Jerry's wife I don't think he deserves a new blade anyway.
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Joe X posted this on Youtube a few hours ago.


JOE X
2 hours ago
email from Jerry B.
really nice from him!!!

"I saw your AFBM video and would request that you please return all of the pieces to our shop in order for us to examine them.


Our warranty does not cover "Intentional Damage". However, I did tell you that I would be sending you an INFI blade to test and failed to do so in the time-frame I quoted you. Since you paid us for the AFBM out of your pocket, we will issue you a Full Refund, including S&H upon receipt of the parts and pieces.


Thanks,


Jerry"
 
Chingon1988 said:
Joe X posted this on Youtube a few hours ago.


JOE X
2 hours ago
email from Jerry B.
really nice from him!!!

"I saw your AFBM video and would request that you please return all of the pieces to our shop in order for us to examine them.


Our warranty does not cover "Intentional Damage". However, I did tell you that I would be sending you an INFI blade to test and failed to do so in the time-frame I quoted you. Since you paid us for the AFBM out of your pocket, we will issue you a Full Refund, including S&H upon receipt of the parts and pieces.


Thanks,


Jerry"
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I expected nothing less. But it still shows who is the bigger man that he doesn't even address the elephant in the room.
 
beachmaster said:
Aus8a and sk85 can most certainly be 60hrc, and sk85 actually would greatly benefit from it. Larrin has done great work and one thing he has demonstrated is potential hardness that are not only achievable to regular steels but the benefits of doing it and at which point those benefits begin to degrade.
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I didn’t mean those steels couldn’t be 60hrc. The ones Joe x tested certainly weren’t 60hrc.
 
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