Friendly reminder for tonights GW sale

[Chuddy Bear]

The flaw in your sales model is that the supply of the items for sale are far outweighed by the demand.

Lets say Skunk knows he will be getting 100 wardens and he puts a pre-order button up on his web site. They will sell out just as fast as they do now. We will be in the same spot as we are now, the fastest clickers will get the knives. You also mention some extra knives going to a ganza, which is a form of a sale which also go to the fastest clickers.

I think you are confusing the form of the sale with the problem of re-sellers buying in large quantities and then immediately selling at inflated prices. They are two different things.

The only way to limit the re-selling would be a purchasing limit when the knives are released. The people who are doing that would simply have family or friends try to order knives in an attempt to get more knives.

The re-sellers have differing moral values than you do and it is all right to disagree with them. The bottom line is you will not eliminate the profiteers, they will find a way.

Not being mean or rude just stating it as I see it.

As far as not being fair, I don't know anyone on this forum and yet I have managed to get three knives from BCS. The formula is simple just read the posts here, figure out when the knives will be put on the BCS site and buy one if you can. If you dont get one go to the secondary market, if you don't want to pay the inflated prices of the profiteers then dont buy from them. I have watched the exchange here and almost every BCS release has been sold at very near the BCS price at some point.

PS: if you have a slow internet connection, buy something faster. I have a fast connection and it costs me more than five hundred dollars a year. evrything has its price.

 

[bld522]

The present system has one nice side effect: A certain camraderie is built between buyers who "take care" of another Busse faithful by acting as a proxy buyer and setting them up with a knife, at cost, from a multiple order. I've acted as proxy (several times) and been the recipient as well. :thumbup:

And for that, I commend you. :thumbup: In fact, I've seen several instances of that kind of generosity. But doesn't a sales operation that requires you to do that seem a little strange to you? I mean, where else do you have to do that?

 

[metallicat]

good points Chuddy Bear, but, say there are 20 knives, if a reseller could only buy 5 knives at a time he or his straw dogs would have to get lucky 4 times, where now he justs gets lucky once and grabs up all 20. If the reseller can only grab 5, then there are 15 left for others....

 

[Tony G]

I think that you need to present some facts first. For the hell of it lets say that there were 200 of each warden made. What you need to do before you can say that sales to "resellers" is a problem is go find the number of each that has been resold at "inflated prices". And you need to define "inflated". If you are finding an average of say 10, then 5% just isn't anything to worry about and even 10% isn't a big deal. If you don't present some numbers then you may just be wasting everyone’s time on a problem that does not exist.

Some guy prides himself in counting Warden resales, he says that there are 200; well if he is right but 3000 have been made then who cares? And of the 200 resales how many have been sold twice... like I sold to Jaxx and he sold to you. At times I think the “problem” of the few resales of Wardens is part of the new American way of passing off personal failure by pointing to some group that is really causing your problems.

And one more time. I'm not that fast and I'm not that smart and I have a full time job and a social life; except for the Green Linen I have been able to buy at least one of every Warden from the Company store. So based on my experience people just need to try harder and put in their time. There are too many people like me and Jaxx and Foo that do get knives on a consistent basis to make the story that many many people can not buy a knife believable. The story just does not work any more; too many guys do get knives when they want them. I don’t have a supper fast connection; in fact I have an old slow one by today’s standards, so it isn't some fantasy guy out there with a T-1 line buying up knives.

And hell maybe some people just lack the skill sets to buy a knife. But we all run around trying to fix things for them. I say that maybe it is more like the NBA if you are less than 5'8" you just can not play. Maybe that is the way this is too. And since there is no entitlement at stake I’m not one to think that things need fixing.

OK, Skunk. Here we go:

I’d like to present my views in terms of a proposal. I’m not interested in complaining without offering a solution. And while I’m certain others could come up with a better solution, this is the best I can do for now.

The problem as I see it is that a number of people feel that they are not being given a fair and equitable opportunity to purchase knives from the BCS. These people believe, rightly or wrongly, that the activities of resellers are to blame. The resellers buy up all the available merchandise before individual purchasers have a chance to get any. As a result, individuals are forced to purchase the knives they want from resellers on the secondary market, often at highly-inflated prices.

IMHO, the best way to eliminate the problem would be to reinstate the pre-order system, but with a twist. I’d recommend that you list every knife you sell and every possible combination and permutation of each knife. (This is PRECISELY the way Busse sells knives from their web site today.) Then create an order form and allow people to pre-order knives based on their exact preferences. Preferences would include finish, handle material/color, blade thickness, etc. Those who place pre-orders would have to make a deposit of the full purchase price for the number of knives they order. They could cancel their pre-orders at any time and obtain a full refund of their deposits.

When the number of pre-orders for a particular knife reaches a critical mass determined solely by you, you’d have Jerry create a run of knives that fill the outstanding orders PLUS, and here’s the twist, an additional amount. The additional amount could vary, but its purpose would be to continue to sell the remainder as you have in the past, i.e., first-come, first-served, no order limit. So, for example, let’s say you get orders for 50 Orange Wardens and that’s your critical mass. At that time, you could have Jerry run, say, 100 Orange Wardens. When they arrive, you’d fill the pre-orders first and hang onto the rest until the pre-ordered knives had time to arrive at their destinations. Then you’d let everyone know that you’re going to have a ‘ganza on Orange Wardens and let the tackle fly.

What are the advantages to this approach. First, no one could complain about not being able to buy knives from the BCS at store pricing. As long as you received enough knives to fill their orders, they’d receive theirs. Second, you’d have the use of the money from their deposits until the knives were shipped. Depending upon how long it took to fill their orders, interest income earned from outstanding deposits could amount to a tidy little piece of change. Third, reseller activity would slow to a crawl. Only resellers with more money than sense would place large pre-orders for specific knives without knowing when those knives might arrive. Fourth, it would broaden your customer base. Keep in mind that people who resell knives they purchase from you on the secondary market aren’t your friends. They’re your competition. And fifth, and this is absolutely precious, nothing would have changed from the perspective of the resellers. They'd have absolutely no idea how many pre-orders you might have filled yourself. So for a while at least, they'd continue to purchase knives off the 'ganza for resale thinking that they had a market to sell to. You'd not only be able to continue to sell to your resellers, you'd sell direct to their customers as well.

Well there you have it. Do with it as you will. And thanks again for being willing to hear me out.

 

[metallicat]

Good point Tony G. Maybe its only the perception that there is abuse...still I saw a thread where there were 20 + knives listed with at least a $50 markup. As far as I know the wardens went from 167 to 227 so....

If its only a perception it is a persistent and negative perception and if only for that reason should perhaps be addressed.

 

[bld522]

I think that you need to present some facts first . . .

I wish I had the time to gather up the facts, Tony. But like you, I have other things to do as well (although you couldn't tell from the volume of my input today. ) All I know is that the complaints never seem to end. Granted, I haven't been here as long as some of you. But I've been here long enough to see a trend develop, one marked by its consistency.

(Oops. Metallicat took the words right out of my mouth. Take over for awhile, would you metallicat? I'm running out of gas. )

 

[Tony G]

Good point Tony G. Maybe its only the perception that there is abuse...still I saw a thread where there were 20 + knives listed with at least a $50 markup. As far as I know the wardens went from 167 to 227 so....

If its only a perception it is a persistent and negative perception and if only for that reason should perhaps be addressed.

Yes you saw one with 20 knives ( I actually think it was 16, but there were a lot) but they were not all of one Warden, I think there were Black, Muddy, Tiger, Orange, Yellow. So say five if 200 of each were produced than you have 20 (or 16) of 1,000 being resold. So see, you need some facts to see it there is really a problem OR if one or two sales threads with a lot of knives is pissing everyone off BUT that is only 3% of the Wardens made.

And the guys selling knives in that format are well... just stupid. They would be way better off selling one at a time over the course of weeks.

 

[Cutshaw]

And for that, I commend you. :thumbup: In fact, I've seen several instances of that kind of generosity. But doesn't a sales operation that requires you to do that seem a little strange to you? I mean, where else do you have to do that?

It does seem a little strange at first but the uniqueness of that approach is one of the things has made everyone here into such a tight group.

I was frustrated when I first got here and struggled through trying to learn the ropes. Over time, I began to see the wisdom of that strategy.

You'll find people who are initially critical fall into two groups. The hit-and-run complainer who really just likes to whine on the net -and- the soon to be converted. Usually an act of HOG kindness is all it takes to convert the the latter. I hope you stay and enjoy yourself. :thumbup:

 

[bld522]

The flaw in your sales model is that the supply of the items for sale are far outweighed by the demand . . .

You missed something, Chuddy Bear. Based on my model, when you pre-order, you have to SPECIFY exactly which Warden you want. If Skunk gets 100 Wardens and they're not what you pre-ordered, your order won't be filled. So how many pre-orders are you willing to submit to cover all the possible Warden variants Skunk might receive, especially considering that you have to make a full deposit with every pre-order that you submit?

 

[Tony G]

I wish I had the time to gather up the facts, Tony. But like you, I have other things to do as well (although you couldn't tell from the volume of my input today. ) All I know is that the complaints never seem to end. Granted, I haven't been here as long as some of you. But I've been here long enough to see a trend develop, one marked by its consistency.

(Oops. Metallicat took the words right out of my mouth. Take over for awhile, would you metallicat? I'm running out of gas. )

Hey if there is one thing worse than resellers it is guys that start these things and maybe cause Skunk a lot of stress and work then run off because it might take some work on their part. When do you plan to be around to finish?

 

[Hogwash]

I have never had to rely on this comeraderie.

The perception of this "problem" is only shared by people who can't seem to buy anything.

The complaints are only made by people who can't seem to buy anything.

The vast majority are sitting at home with their knives wondering where you went wrong.

 

[Tony G]

I have to go soon too. I took most of today off to do some Valentines Day shopping that will greatly increase my chances of scoring. :thumbup:

 

[bld522]

Hey if there is one thing worse than resellers it is guys that start these things and maybe cause Skunk a lot of stress and work then run off because it might take some work on their part. When do you plan to be around to finish?

Don't worry Tony. I'll stick around. I'm anxious to hear what Skunk has to say.

 

[bld522]

The perception of this "problem" is only shared by people who can't seem to buy anything.

The complaints are only made by people who can't seem to buy anything.

Those two statements are givens, wash, with three words thrown in at the end . . .

. . . FROM THE STORE!

 

[Ron Athay]

I am that guy who counted the 200??? wardens for sale mostly within a few days of their original sales. I took no pride in it. Nor am I opposed to how the store is run. Nor do I think it needs fixing. I asked a question before that no one answered. I have only been here less than one year. Could some true HOG tell me if this concern has ever occurred on a knife other than the wardens? Is it possible this whole flap is over one unique knife? I have never been succesful at seeing any of the special runs at BCS. So what. When I did not see the HH or the SJTACLE's because they came and went too fast I do not remember anyone making a fuss. I also do not remember anyone selling several of the HH or SJTACLE's on the exchange the next day.
Right now the Busse forums and the Busse Experience is the most fun I have in my life (all three companies). I enjoy the feel of most of the threads and I really love the humor. With more experience I have a new out look on the "inflated" prices on the exchange for the various discontinued knives. If someone else wants to gain that new outlook, I suggest they look at the Randall, Mad dog, Tops, Strider, etc. prices. If you really want to understand, try and buy a 5 year old Loveless Drop Point Hunter. I read a thread on an unstated forum where a man admitted he had bought a new Loveless every month for 20 years only to resell it when he got it at more than a 300% mark up. He always got his price very quickly. He typically has to wait 5 years to get each knife. No one cares what he is doing, especially those who buy his knife.
I think the problem is that so many WANT a Busse and the company sells them at a very good price.
I have been pricing other knives similar to a RAT Mastiff since I cannot find one I like. The alternatives in size and quaility cost MORE than the secondary market for a Mastiff. I chose a Swamp Rat for my example because I did not want to get into a discussion of how do you match as
busse for steel quaility (probably cannot).
Sorry for the length. I am a true blue fan just trying to buy more knives that I want.
Ron Athay

 

[bld522]

Before Skunk gets here, I want to take a minute to thank every one of you for giving me a lot of food for thought (even you, 360joules ). Whether or not you agree with me, I'm glad you all felt that this topic was worth responding to. :thumbup:

 

[BlackHills]

I haven't been around here very long, as you can see. I don't have a fast internet connection.....right now I'm running at a whopping 52k. I have rushed to the trough at the BCS 3 times in hopes of buying a GW...and scored twice.

Do I think the system as it stands is fair? Yes. Do I have a skewed opinion of that? Perhaps. I suppose it all depends on your point of view.

I think part of the problem is that the internet, more disposable income, etc., have created an 'instant gratification' society. People want something, and they want it now. To get a GW at the BCS takes persistence....which many in our society seem to lack. I was persistent, so therefore I scored. Others weren't, and therefore didn't score....or maybe they were, yet still didn't. Luck does figure into the equation as well. Does anyone really 'need' a GW, or even any Busse for that matter? A few do, but not all of us. It's a 'want', not a 'need' for the majority of us. If you really look at it, food, clothing and shelter are the only needs....anything beyond that is a want or a luxury. As the Rolling Stones once said, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes well you might find, you get what you need."

This thread started on the premise of people buying more than they need, and then selling at inflated prices. It's not the fault of the BCS business model. The blame for their actions falls on the people that are buying at those prices. If they wouldn't buy at those prices, then the sellers wouldn't be selling at those prices.

Just my 2¢...

 

[Hogwash]

In response to Ron, the funny thing is that the Game Warden isn't unique. Busse has made lots of them, now we are seeing dozens of them on the exchange with less than 25% mark up.

I have paid more than 100% mark up for a knife that I wanted, 25% is peanuts.

In my first extravaganza I wanted a BiBB but I was too slow. Now they sell for $400+ when you can find them. At least you can find a Game Warden.

 

[bld522]

I have paid more than 100% mark up for a knife that I wanted, 25% is peanuts.

I understand where you're coming from, wash. But I'm not sure that's the point. I would argue that all any of us really want is the ability to purchase knives directly from the BCS at store prices without having to turn ourselves inside out to accomplish that. Why should ANY of us have to pay a markup for knives that are in current production?

The pre-order solves the problem. If a knife we want isn't made or made in sufficient quantities, then yes . . . we may have to purchase it on the secondary market at a markup. But if we're willing to pay for the knife up front and wait until it's produced, shouldn't we be offered that option? And if not, why not?

 

[Tony G]

In response to Ron, the funny thing is that the Game Warden isn't unique. Busse has made lots of them, now we are seeing dozens of them on the exchange with less than 25% mark up.

I have paid more than 100% mark up for a knife that I wanted, 25% is peanuts.

In my first extravaganza I wanted a BiBB but I was too slow. Now they sell for $400+ when you can find them. At least you can find a Game Warden.

When I sell I do it like this $217 + actual shipping to me say $7 for my cost of 224.00. Then it costs $10 to get it out to the next guy for 234.00. Then my time isn’t worthless so I add 10% and get prices like 257-267. Now if may months have passed... like say I was selling a Snake LE Warden well I'm going with market.

Does anyone think that is inflated?

And what is inflated?