Frozen wood vs sarsquatch. The wood won, by a lot

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I'm trying to find a source stating the hardness of frozen wood. hickory is 1820 on the janka scale, But I don't know how much higher it is once it's brought down to 20 degree's F. Pyrete (sawdust suspended in water and then frozen) acts like concrete, so wood is probably not far off...
 
Sorry to read that about your knife. What type of wood were you working on when it happened? Have you tried to straighten/steel it yet (I know you are in the woods so this might not be possible)?
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I'm trying to find a source stating the hardness of frozen wood. hickory is 1820 on the janka scale, But I don't know how much higher it is once it's brought down to 20 degree's F. Pyrete (sawdust suspended in water and then frozen) acts like concrete, so wood is probably not far off...
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similarly, just because I'm curious, where do glass (like a 3/8" table top) and bone (say, a deer leg) and that rusty old chain I chopped roughly fall on the scale?
 
This knife was frozen, several times during the trip. It was dunked in freezing water to clear out holes and had been frozen over several times as well. Honestly, all went well for a while when going through soft wood, both chopping and batoning. It all went bad when I got to some hard frozen stuff. Sure you could say I should have brought a tougher knife for frozen wood, but I didn't intend on cutting up frozen stuff, and I wasn't going to lug out an NMFBM along with all my other gear a mile on to a glare ice covered lake.

I started to sharpen some of this out, to be honest though, I was up all night and in freezing weather all day, so i'm aggravated enough right now to just use it as a serrated bread knife.

Here are some pics.

Going good -

s.jpg


s2.jpg


s3.jpg


...and it all went to hell, this is after trying to clean it up some...

s4.jpg


No nails, no imaginary blown temper from grinding it at 1000000000 rpm with a 2 grit belt, just a thin edged knife vs some hard frozen wood.
 
iamtoast said:
Sorry to read that about your knife. What type of wood were you working on when it happened? Have you tried to straighten/steel it yet (I know you are in the woods so this might not be possible)?
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I think he said it was frozen wood !

:p


Just kidding mate !!
 
230grains said:
This knife was frozen, several times during the trip. It was dunked in freezing water to clear out holes and had been frozen over several times as well. Honestly, all went well for a while when going through soft wood, both chopping and batoning. It all went bad when I got to some hard frozen stuff. Sure you could say I should have brought a tougher knife for frozen wood, but I didn't intend on cutting up frozen stuff, and I wasn't going to lug out an NMFBM along with all my other gear a mile on to a glare ice covered lake.

I started to sharpen some of this out, to be honest though, I was up all night and in freezing weather all day, so i'm aggravated enough right now to just use it as a serrated bread knife.

Here are some pics.

Going good -

s.jpg


s2.jpg


s3.jpg


...and it all went to hell, this is after trying to clean it up some...

s4.jpg


No nails, no imaginary blown temper from grinding it at 1000000000 rpm with a 2 grit belt, just a thin edged knife vs some hard frozen wood.
Click to expand...

mate, that sucks. Jezza will sort it for ya !
 
Imagine if you had been depending on that frost blade you chopped up. Call it the BreadSqatch now?
 
Not that it will make you happy but that sort of damage is something I would expect to see on a thin edged blade chopping frozen wood with a lot of ice/sap in the wood. I grew up cutting firewood and the season extended into the frozen months. Axes, knives, and even the Stihl chainsaw all suffered from frozen wood. We're not talking just cold wood but the stuff that is moisture rich. It beats tools like you are chopping blocks of glass. A thourough sharpening and maybe give the edge a slightly thicker profile will help avoid this in the future.
 
Breaking news: INFI still obeys the laws of physics! Film at 11:00...


The stuff is tough but it's not gonna perform miracles. A lesser blad would have probably shattered instead of chipping slightly. Forget the warranty - you know how to use a grinder, so just fix it. The damage isn't even that bad, IMHO
 
Bill Siegle said:
Not that it will make you happy but that sort of damage is something I would expect to see on a thin edged blade chopping frozen wood with a lot of ice/sap in the wood. I grew up cutting firewood and the season extended into the frozen months. Axes, knives, and even the Stihl chainsaw all suffered from frozen wood. We're not talking just cold wood but the stuff that is moisture rich. It beats tools like you are chopping blocks of glass. A thourough sharpening and maybe give the edge a slightly thicker profile will help avoid this in the future.
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Siegle speaks. We listen.:)

To be utterly honest, I've never used anything but an axe or chainsaw (Stihl) on frozen wood. It was not a pleasant experience ... :(
 
I beg to differ. A thicker profiled edge would have performed much better.
 
MustardMan said:
you know how to use a grinder, so just fix it. The damage isn't even that bad, IMHO
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You should have seen it before I started to fix it, it was a hacksaw, very bad chipping and denting both. I rolled out what I could with a steel, but it was futile because a lot of the metal is just flat out gone.

As for frozen wood, I took out a 30 foot frozen solid birch with my NMFBM without a single roll or dent. Blasphemous, I know, but after the knife wouldn't even fit in my sheath because of the damage, I batoned the rest of the firewood with an izula, saved the day as my buddy had lost his hatchet and we only had large planks of scrap wood left..
 
The CF knives are pretty thin and frozen wood is pretty tough. Busse will make it right. On the bright side, you now you have the nicest serrated bread knife in town. :D
 
This event is a good time to clear some things up .... firstly using a sander to sharpen your knife would not affect the temper ... 600 C to 900 C ( correction needed to degrees F ) would be required for that ...
secondly ... Jerry does not qualify his warranty by saying "only available to those with a factory profile" ... if you sharpen your knife to an edge you reasonably expect works best for your intended purpose you are still covered ... that I am sure is Busse's view and no doubt they will verify this in due course ... all warranty's on knives are not invalidated by simply your chosen method of sharpening ...

Finally ... when we have had silly threads in the past of knives through all sorts of media not intended for knives and the warranty has been upheld ... a knife through wood is hardly an issue ... and on top of all of this looking at the damage ... IMO a bit of steeling and a few more runs over with a variety of relevant grits and I bet it will be like new ...

But guys ... we need to get with it on what are the "norms" of knife ownership ... convexing on a belt sander and choosing your best intended angle for sharpness ... is not unusual ... and I for one would not expect this to wipe out a warranty ...

Which is the more weird ? Lamposts with factory edges or wood with a self sharpened edge? I am sure they are all covered....because the first one was ... and the second to me seems a lot less "intentionally" looking for damage ...( EDIT .. I mean here that 230's use is normal and in terms of warranty cover would not come in as being excluded for such reasons ... especially when knives have been covered for a lot more crazy things than this ).

On a seperate note ... a way to check sappy wood for being frozen and harder to baton than you might expect is to touch it with the tip of your tongue ... old wood will have no "sticking" sensation like with ice ... newer wood with moisture in it will feel sticky ... like the effect with an ice lolly ...obviously you need to trim the bark back a bit before doing the test ...
 
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PeterPHWS said:
This event is a good time to clear some things up .... firstly using a sander to sharpen your knife would not affect the temper ... 600 C to 900 C would be required for that ...
secondly ... Jerry does not qualify his warranty by saying "only available to those with a factory profile" ... if you sharpen your knife to an edge you reasonably expect works best for your intended purpose you are still covered ... that I am sure is Busse's view and no doubt they will verify this in due course ... all warranty's on knives are not invalidated by simply your chosen method of sharpening ...

Finally ... when we have had silly threads in the past of knives threough all sorts of media not intended for knives and the warranty has been upheld ... a knife through wood is hardly an issue ... and on top of all of this looking at the damage ... IMO a bit of steeling and a few more runs over with a variety of relevant grits and I bet it will be like new ...

But guys ... we need to get with it on what are the "norms" of knife ownership ... convexing on a belt sander and choosing your best intended angle for sharpness ... is not unusual ... and I for one would not expect this to wipe out a warranty ...

Which is the more weird ? Lamposts with factory edges or wood with a self sharpened edge? I am sure they are all covered....because the first one was ... and the second to me seems a lot less "intentionally" looking for damage ...
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Heavens!:eek:

I would not say that 230 was looking for trouble when he chose a thinner edge angle. Tomorrow, I might do that myself.:D;) And then, I would immediately wonder: how far can I push this edge?:)

Nothing unusual about what 230 did.
 
OldPhysics said:
Heavens!:eek:

I would not say that 230 was looking for trouble when he chose a thinner edge angle. Tomorrow, I might do that myself.:D;) And then, I would immediately wonder: how far can I push this edge?:)

Nothing unusual about what 230 did.
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That's the thing, I wasn't trying to "push this edge", I had a task that needed to get done, I had this knife on me, I wasn't about to go all the way home and pick up a chainsaw and a maul and haul it out on the ice.
 
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