Fun on the way home last night

Joined
Mar 15, 2000
Messages
136
Howdy folks! I just wanted to share with you how much fun I had on the way home last night from work and why I dearly love our local P.O's. Well, I got off work last ngiht about 10:30 and I was heading home. I was, maybe 2 blocks from my house, and I saw a cop swing in behind me. I just bought the car I'm driving and haven't had a chance to get the tags switched over, so I eased over into the other lane and, of course, he follows. Well, a couple of secs later he hit his blues and made me pull over into a local apt. complex. I pulled over and by the time he got up to the window I had my license and my CCW permit out and both hands in VERY plain sight. I informed him I had a gun in the car and he asked me where. I told him it was under the seat. At that point he told me to get out of the car. Well, being good natured I complied and as soon as I got out he made me face the car and slaps CUFFS on me! At that point I inquired if i was under arrest for anything and he replied, no, this is just for YOUR safety and mine. He then started groping me after asking me if I had any needles or sharp objects on me. HEH,HEH! Only about six knives! Well, he gets done unloading all my pockets and then makes me get in the back of his car. He then took my pistol, unloaded it, and locked the slide back. I don't know what he did, but it took me forever to get the slide back down. He then very kindly wrote my several tickets and let me go. Am I the only one who thinks this is just a wee bit extreme?


Kris


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kwheeler3644@cs.com http://pub17.ezboard.com/bknfmnsforum
 
If I had enough papers in the car to show I was licensed to drive, owned the car, and had insurance (I wouldn't drive it without that much documentation) I would grab those docs and not bring up the topic of weapons. It's happened while coming back from hunting trips and I sure had an easier time not talking about the 5 guns and 6 knives in the car.

On the other hand, I've been handcuffed and taken to the county jail because of parking tickets that my wife got in my car and let go to warrant. I was sort of embarrased that I still had my SAK on me in the holding cell. Things like that give you a lot of leverage when your wife complains about how you handle bills.
 
Jeff,

I did have all the paperwork you mentioned in the car. However, I would rather have him know before hand that there is a gun in the car than to have him discover that I have a CCW when he runs my license. Especially with someone who is, shall we say, as "high strung" as this cop is! God knows what he would have done if he had discovered it by chance!

Kris
 
He was utterly out of control.

I seriously recommend you file a formal complaint. Here's why: there was no cause to do any of this based on your CCW, you now have proof of that because if you had misused the gun in ANY fashion, you'd be looking at a lot more than traffic tickets.

With your complaint, photocopy the tickets, they'll show exactly when and where and by which cop all this happened with.

People only get the level of government abuse that they tolerate.

Jim
 
I'm always bothered when I hear stories like that, but rarely am I surprised.

In law, you're innocent until proven guilty, but to a cop, you're guilty until proven guilty. Cops are right to be cautious, but sometimes they abuse their powers and lose sight of the honor and moral responsibility that defines the very nature of their role in society. In other words, for some cops it's just a power trip, and every once in a while, the good guys get slapped around a little.

A good rule of thumb: never trust anyone who doesn't trust you.
 
First off let me state..

People have the right to bear arms.
You have a CCW so the state has given you their blessing.


Even though you were completely honest and forward with the officer I think he was justified in cuffing you..Given the state of the world today even the Goodguys might go postal one day..In my mind its better to be safe/sued than DEAD.

I used to get alot of questions/complaints for people at my former job when I would handcuff young,old or nonviolent shoplifters.My answer was " I dont give a Sh** if it's lil orphan Annie..the bit** is gonna wear steel".

just my.02
 
Im not cop bashing here...just picking on the idiot ones. IMO the cop had the typical 'us vs. them' attitude. For some cops, putting on the uniform seems to drive their ego right into the red zone. You wanna see a real example of abuse of power....drive through oklahoma one day and see some (not all) but some of our state troopers...geez, how they ever manage to fit their ego filled heads in the car I will never know.



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Richard
icq 61363141
Just some knife pictures
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=110070&a=4518795
 
Altough he may have been justified for doing what he did for safety,I think you intially voluteering that information and the fact you had your cc permit in plain view,he could have handled it a tad less harsh.I mean if I have bad intentions I'm not going to announce I'm armed,that is what he should have figured too.I was pulled over one time while armed with a handgun and told the officer.He asked if I had a permit,I said yes.He asked to seen the gun and permit,I believe I had a glock at the time.He looked at it and let me go and didn't write me a ticket for anything.In retrospect,if the same thing occured now,I wouldn't volunteer that info unless he asked.I don't need the added hassle and delay for something I'm rightfully in posession of.Chow,Ralph
 
FACT: not one single permitholder has ever shot or even shot at a cop.

Ever.

FACT: Dade County Florida started compiling "criminal actions by CCW holder" stats after the 1986 reforms...they wanted to be ready with "blood in the streets" statistics. By the early '90s they added up the results, and quickly abandoned the whole tracking system out of embarassment: the permitholders had a rate of criminal misconduct 1/4th that of law enforcement!!!

File a formal complaint.

Jim
 
Not extreme at all. We all know there is a world of wackos out there. An ounce of prevention is worth the pound of cure. He gets to go home to wife & kids behaving this way. A little hastle to you maybe, but you walked into his office.
 
that's bull. he didn't "walk into his office"- he was minding his own business and trying to go home himself. totally legal. once again the Hillaryites and Rosie ODonnells go after someone who took the time to follow the law (gets the CCW), and is doing nothing wrong. i think that i would go apesh*t if someone put cuffs on me "for my safety." at least say it like it is- i'm ASSUMING (Presumption of guilt is so easy when one holds the upper hand) that you're a bad guy- cause here you are with a LEGAL permit, so i'm gonna treat you just like a criminal. and i'm not anti-cop. my grandfather was one during prohibition. several of my friends are as well. i've been told many of these "for your safety" issues have come along because of cutbacks from mayor's offices; layoffs; also cause of women officers patrolling alone who can put the cuffs on and then call for assist if something doesn't look right.
Endura Duck- are you saying that just for suspicion of a crime we should all be capable of restricting you then and there at the roadside? are you a police officer, or were you one at this "former job?"
this sounds like gestapo tactics. i don't think i'd even want a CCW now- if this is how some cops think to behave when they encounter one! hmmmmm....maybe some LEOs act this way because they don't want us having access to certain items.
 
Kwheeler..........not taking sides either way since I wasn't there.......and I'm sure there is probably another side to the story.....which is why you should do a court date if you feel put upon. You do mention 'several tickets'...what did he write you for? You also mention you had just bought car...but had not had time to get the tag work done. Not knowing your locale but familar with mine I do know that unless you have had a legit transfer of tag paperwork completed you are not driving on legal plates.........something to be quite suspicious of these days. In my state you are better off running on no plates at all rather than bad plates........I don't have our state statutes in front of me but its come up before and running on bad plates is pretty serious stuff down here...and many times a bad plate stop reveals more problems...from no insurance,drugs,weapons,stolen cars...you name it. Having talked to leo's on similar subjects the prevelant attitude is...if careless enough to be running on switched plates...could be problems elsewhere as well. No I don't believe leo's are always right..far from it. I have carried with me a copy of several relevant statutes with me...items I have had to deal on occassion with a leo less versed on areas of the law...and not being a wise guy I have educated a cpl. leo's in my area.........sometimes a touchy topic but better than an unneccessary hassle and time in court.

stay stealthy
smile.gif
 
Complain, and complain loudly. Handcuffing you when you'd done nothing provocative was way out of line. The officer in question needs to be called to account for his actions.

I don't know about your state, but here in Oregon to get a CHL you must have no record of any previous felony, no previous violent misdemeanor, no misdemeanors in the last five years (maybe it's three), no history of any offense involving weapons, no outstanding courtorders involving violence or weapons, no complaints against you on file. It basically says you're a very good person. No Oregon officer has ever been attacked by an OR CHL holder. In Oregon in general, the police treat you better when then find you you have a CHL because they know that statistically you are among the least likely to attack them.

File a formal complaint and insist that it be resolved fully through whatever formal process is in place. Even if the ultimate resolution is that the officer acted within his rights, the fact that a complaint was filed still goes in his record. If he accumulates to many of those, it'll prove career-limiting for him. Police departments like officers who can do their job while maintaining a positive relationship and image with the public. The mere fact that an officer provoked a citizen enough to cause that citizen to formally complain, should be viewed poorly by his superiors, especially if quite a number of complaints accumulate against a single officer.

When you make your complaint, don't exagerate. Avoid any inflamatory or provocative language. State the facts professionally.

The other thing you may be able to do is demand to see the officer's record to see if there have been other complaints. In many states, at least some portion of an officer's personnel file is a public record which you can demand and see. Again, just demanding to see the file will create some stir. I know if I was in a job where I knew that my file was public record, I'd want to keep it as clean as possible. In areas where such information is a matter of public record, departments are going to want officers to keep those files clean too. If an officer does suddenly become involved in some controversial situation, maybe a shooting or something, they know that the first thing the local media are going to do is demand those files and comb through 'em for any detail they can use about the officers involved. "While police authorities insist that the shooting was justified, police records show that the officer who fired the fatal shots was involved in X citizen complaints last year and was accused of using excessive force Y times." That sort of thing doesn't sound good. Just about every department is required to publish a composite statistic of the number of complaints they receive every year and, for obvious reasons, they want that number to be as small as possible. So, if one officer seems to be inspiring more than his share of complaints, you can bet that there'll be some pressure brought to bear on him.

In many areas, to make these things happen you must file an "official" complaint. A letter to the chief may not be considered an "official" complaint. There may be a form you have to fill out. There may be a specific process you have to go through to file it, etc. Find out what those processes are and make sure your complaint is as offcial as you can get it.

Oh, and CC the Mayor's office too.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Oh, but now I see that you live in Antioch, TN. I used to live in Antioch. That's covered by The Nashville and Metro Davidson County Police Department, one of the lowest paid, most poorly equipped, and most poorly trained departments in the United States thanks to the officer's own union.

One of the two unions, the predominently black union, sued years ago over how raises and promotions were handed out. The court ordered that there be no raises or promotions until the issue could be resolved. The court, of course, assumed that the issue would be resolved quickly. After years of wrangling, the deparment and the union agreed that after a certain number of years in a given position, an officer would be able to apply for a promotion to the next grade or the next position. Each year, the deparment would decide how many promotions would be available to each position based on needs and on budgets. All of the officers who applied for the available promotions, would take a written test of knowledge assembled and administered by a mutually-accepted outside consultant firm that specializes in such things. The top scoring officers for each position would be forwarded to the Chief who could veto any promotion if he wanted to, but he would, of course, be accountable to the public for such decisions. The Chief would be allowed to make a small number of discretionary promotions each year, but those would also be subject to public scrutiny.

So, test syllabuses were release by the consultants as planned. The predomenently black union hired a consultant firm of their own to teach classes for their members to enable them to pass the tests. The tests were administered. The vast majority of the top performers were not black. The union then went back to court and blocked the raises and promotions yet again, and it went on for several more years.

Meanwhile, of course, most of the best officers left. So, thanks to the police officer's own union, you are left with one of the least qualified, least paid, and lowest moral departments in the country.

Sorry.

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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 07-01-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Endura Duck:
Even though you were completely honest and forward with the officer I think he was justified in cuffing you.
frown.gif
I think as a minimum honest citizens deserve normal treatement?

Given the state of the world today even the Goodguys might go postal one day..In my mind its better to be safe/sued than DEAD.
With all due respect, Endura, using your logic, much safer not to allow anyone to have a gun,a knife, then even more safe if everyone is in prison, preventively...
frown.gif
but for whom?
BTW LEOs are subjected to much more stress & have lot more reasons to go postal, so what disarm & cuff them too?

I used to get alot of questions/complaints for people at my former job when I would handcuff young,old or nonviolent shoplifters.My answer was " I dont give a Sh** if it's lil orphan Annie..the bit** is gonna wear steel".
I think there's a difference between a person caught on the crime & the one who has not commited anything yet, otherwise anyone in the street can wear steel or a gun or a nuclear warhead.



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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
 
Hey everyone! I appreciate everybody stating their opions on this matter. A few stand out. Larry, no he wasn't a rookie. I looked at his medallion on his chest and it stated that he had been an officer since '97. IMHO, that means he is fairly exerienced. Endura duck, I agree that you never know what someone is going to do, but I feel that this was getting to the ridiculous point. I freely admitted to having a firearm in the car and would have willingly surrendered it for the length of the stop, but he had to carry the matter much further. I am going to go and post a formal complaint monday. I can understand his concerns for his safety, but I do feel I was treated inappropriately. I have an absolutely clean record since I turned 18. I was insured on the vehicle and everything else was in order. The numerous citations he issued me were all regarding the unlawful tags.

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kwheeler3644@cs.com http://pub17.ezboard.com/bknfmnsforum
 
Although this is a little off topic it helps to clearly indicate our errosion of rights as free people and the police state like country this is becoming. No Im no radical nut just an educated guy with open eyes.

Here in NY in order to get illegal handguns off the street ( a worthwhile endeavor ) they do a little something called stop and frisk. Hmmmm ... It is exactly what it sounds like.

As kids many of us were appalled adn shocked when we had learned in school about certain countries where personal documantation was required and police could stop people in the street to check for it. Well here we are year 2000 in the greatist Free city in the world and guess what? You can be walking up the block and have a cop stop you for little apparent reason and ask for ID and proceed to feel you up. Yup in the United states of America. THAT IS SCARY SH**. Oh and do you think that they make just random stops across the board. Dont think so. Minorities and anyone who the particular officer has deemed worthy are the targets. Profiling? How much of our personal freedoms are we willing to continue to give up in order to feel safe? Who are we safe from? Once we are safe from the bad guys and anarchy we are in danger from our own government. Decide for yourself who you want to control your life.

There is something wrong with this system of policing and the feeling of an occupying army in blue. I can be stoped at the will of an officer because I am of Puerto Rican descent. Ive become evil because Im tan in winter. I was born in NY. Served my country as a combat engineer during desert storm. Have a good job working with children and was an honor student and football player in high school. I have 8 years worth of college education.I have a beautiful ten year old girl. If it werent for my appearence I could be all american boy. Yet the police can feel free to stop me and humiliate me by frisking me in the street in front of god and country.

Sorry about the heaviness and length of this post. I just read Kwheelers post and was absolutly inflamed. Register a complaint man! Lets all stop just assuming we have to take it. There are bad cops and bad policies. Only by bitchin do we have a chance of removing both.

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ALex

http://home.att.net./~a.boriqua
 
Hehhe...Figured it would raise some piss and moans from the crowd. But my opinion is still that its justified.

If he would have jerked you from the car and slammed you around then yes a complaint is in order.

If he verbaly belittled you then yes a complaint is in order.

I do also agree that he could have held your weapons with him till the matter was resolved.

All I can state is how I feel..I had a CCW for 3 years..Whenever I was pulled over I always did the same as Kwheeler.I also fully expected to be restrained,never was ,but I still expected it.

Ive been shooting on a friends property before,LEO's were called by neighbors cuz they heard shots fired. When they arrived they took charge of the weapons and restrained us till the serial #s had been ran..Had we commited a crime.No..We were on private property,outside the city limits and shooting into 8' high 3 sided dirt mound. I fully understood why we were restrained and had no probs with it..
Ive also has a officer stop to help me with my car.When he pulled up I stated I had a weapon and a permit to carry.I asked if he wanted to see the weapon and permit,he said no and went about helping with the car.. Thought to myself this has to be the biggest friggin idiot ive ever met.

There's a article in Guns and weapons for law enforcement this month..Its called " Quick Cuffs" read it..it might help some to understand my mindset..Im not here to offend of cause trouble ,just stating my opinion..

Be safe, Quack

Kwheeler: If you feel you have been wronged then place your complaint.You have the right to be heard and expect answers.
 
Boriqua-
i agree with you totally; btw, you're welcome in my neighborhood any time. i'm not sure, but by your post- you're experiencing profiling of some sort and it's unwarranted. i'm Irish-American; i usually wear a buzz cut, and looking pale my friends say i look like a hooligan fresh off the soccer field, or if i had the right tattoos- a neo-nazi. i never saw that image in myself. very curious what people can equate you with. i think a lot of the people who find these things unoffensive are mostly the types who don't get noticed or due to the luck of the draw in the gene pool haven't had to live with it all their life.
Peace.
 
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