Future of production knives

Vince000 said:
Is anybody concerned that a decade or so from now, virtually all production knives will probably be made in China? Many U.S. knife makers have already moved their entire production lineup to China/overseas (e.g. Pena, Chaves, Cold Steel, etc.) and now folks like Microtech are dabbling more and more in China. The economics of manufacturing just so overwhelmingly favor doing it in China it might be impossible for CRK, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc. continue to compete in the production space down the road... Is it all downhill from here?
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Any American brand worth caring about hasn't moved production to China, and any Chinese knives worth caring about aren't made under an American brand (with a few exceptions).
Eliminating the middle men from your market is always best for everyone.
 
I think you'll have to watch it on two fronts: Cost and Quality/Niche.

China has long been thought of a place to have inexpensive low quality goods made. Between the low standard of living and artificially devalued currency, historically the PRC been the "junk" mecca of the disposable goods world. That said, I think two things are happening: The quality of goods coming out of China is increasing across the board. There is still plenty of junk to be had, but they are making some really nice stuff as well. The byproduct of that is that it seems that Chinese manufacturers are learning the lesson that Chinese goods do not have to be just be cheap and crappy. Better stuff commanding a higher price is a growing business model. Folks on the factory floors are starting to become craftsmen and craftswomen and not just lever pullers. I also see the days where the Chinese government can basically be a superpower masquerading as a developing nation to be limited. At a certain point they will have to deal with their manipulations, let the money fall where is may, take a deep dip, and come out on the other side....if that that is there plan. It's the only way they will have a chance of wrenching the #1 spot out of the US' hands, but that will mean giving up their greatest weapon in the game.

Sorry to get off on a tangent. I'm not really worried about where my knives come from. I don't shop for value these days. I shop for what I want. I will happily spend $600 on a Microtech and not spend $300 on a Chinese OTF that is "just as good, more or less". I would like to have a couple more CRK models because i love the fit and finish of an admittedly antiquated style of knife simply because it kinda was THE Grail knife for years. It's like carrying a traditional knife over a folder with a thumb stud and a pocket clip. You can prefer all you want, but the more modern style of knife is generally more objectively handy for most chores over fishing out a nail-breaker in the time it takes to thumb open a folder, make a cut, and have it back and clipped inside your pocket. Some guys just LIKE the old school stuff, and that's cool. I sorta see the CRK knives in the same light. Great product, great history, great warranty, impeccable fit. However, honestly, other companies are doing the same thing if even a bit better for less dollars. I choose to pay the CRK prices because THAT is the knife i want :) China can't give me that...but I dunno if that is a sustainable business model.

If I may be a glass half full guy, if there is a silver lining to the whole Knives from China thing, at least we are also seeing innovation and quality improve. The high end folders coming out of China are really well done if generally a bit garish. It's not ALL junk. However, I think the best we can hope for in the near future is balance: A smattering of high quality US companies making something that is distinctly American in flavor, an influx of quality goods at fair market prices coming from the Chinese (think the rise in quality and price of Japanese goods between the 1940s and 2000s), and we still sadly see a lot of garbage clones coming off the lines there as well. That's just part of the knife game. That last bit has less to do with the quality of the work and pride of folks making the good stuff at other factories and more to do with the lack of morels of the sham manufacturers operating under a government that flat out encourages IP theft as "just doing business".
 
Vince000 said:
Is anybody concerned that a decade or so from now, virtually all production knives will probably be made in China? Many U.S. knife makers have already moved their entire production lineup to China/overseas (e.g. Pena, Chaves, Cold Steel, etc.) and now folks like Microtech are dabbling more and more in China. The economics of manufacturing just so overwhelmingly favor doing it in China it might be impossible for CRK, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc. continue to compete in the production space down the road... Is it all downhill from here?
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No. Enough of us support makers from the US, and other non totalitarian/genocidal regimes. Plus china will be facing some embargos when they invade Taiwan.
 
Vince000 said:
Is anybody concerned that a decade or so from now, virtually all production knives will probably be made in China? Many U.S. knife makers have already moved their entire production lineup to China/overseas (e.g. Pena, Chaves, Cold Steel, etc.) and now folks like Microtech are dabbling more and more in China. The economics of manufacturing just so overwhelmingly favor doing it in China it might be impossible for CRK, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc. continue to compete in the production space down the road... Is it all downhill from here?
Click to expand...
This is absolutely the end result of this new wave of "high end" PRC companies. Used to be that everything made in PRC was considered crap, and now somehow they have convinced US buyers to spend nearly the same $ (or in some cases a LOT more!) on their products as we used to pay for US knives. So now people will buy from PRC companies to save a few bucks, which takes those dollars away from US companies. Keep up the cycle and the US companies will go out of business.

The default argument parroted on this forum, is that the PRC quality is just as good now, etc. But it's not about quality, it's about who your money supports. Now, this is partially the big name US companies' fault for continuing to raise prices, driving people to overseas companies, but there are still some competitive US manufacturers left.

We can (probably) still save the US knife making community, but it would take a concerted effort on everyone's part, and the amount of love shown on this forum for the PRC companies (and backlash shown to anyone who doesn't fall in line) tells me it probably won't happen. Everyone go buy a Hogue while you still can.
 
I mean if you're buying a Gerber knife that's not one of their rare US-made or high end models, you're buying exactly what I mean by 'no-name OEM manufacturer with an American logo'. I know they've been trying to improve their products over the past year or two, and I hope it's going well for them, but their Chinese-made knives are not comparable to even the cheapest Kizer or WE (Sencut) offerings. Everything that matters is better, from the grinds to the materials and fit and finish. WE is known for doing 9cr18 better than anyone, and you can get it for the same cost as a Chinese-made Gerber from who knows what factory. They don't seem to be using SRM, at least their stuff doesn't look up to SRMs standards.
 
I do believe that the next few years could dwindle down some of the US Knife makers. I say "could" because my guess is highly based on how the inflation thing goes. If it continues to grow, I could see Americans tightening their purse strings, spending less on such things as extra knives, (especially pricey ones).
The biggest firms may simply have to downsize while this happens, while some custom makers may be more likely to be pushed to the brink of extinction.
Again, hard financial times can change a lot of markets going forward.
 
With the new Chinese brands over last couple years like WE civiviviv relate etc. that charge premium prices, WHY are people paying the same price on those as a US made knife??? That’s what I don’t understand.

This is not a political question, it’s economic question. When you know the China made knife cost a fourth to make than the US made knife.

China made knife has its place but don’t pay US made prices for them!
 
Reswob said:
This is absolutely the end result of this new wave of "high end" PRC companies. Used to be that everything made in PRC was considered crap, and now somehow they have convinced US buyers to spend nearly the same $ (or in some cases a LOT more!) on their products as we used to pay for US knives.
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Sad but it's all around :^(((

They even counterfeit own products :^)))
GROSS
 
I honestly don't know the market well enough to know the numbers involved. Sure, it's obvious to see that the Chinese manufactured knives have proliferated the hobby at this point. It's also obvious that, like it or not, the market has spoken; and I'm not one to argue with markets. But how do their overall sales compare to the larger US manufacturers? And how much of the knife market is dependent on knife enthusiast? Most of the dudes I know carry and use knives regularly, but very few of them are knife nuts. They generally have a handful of knives based on intended use (filet, skinning, camp, etc.), and many also proudly carry their one Benchmade, Spyderco, Buck, Case, or what-have-you all the time. If I were to tell them that they are "missing out" by not having a dozen $300 knives made in China, they would look at me like I'm bonkers...And let's face it, rightfully so

As for me, I have no desire to purchase knives made in China, but many people who I am friendly with here on the forums do. They can spend as they please, I even enjoy seeing their pics and hearing their experiences. I feel no need to hate on what they like. The fact is however, there are ever so many knives from countries that I do like to buy knives from, and I can't imagine ever getting to the point myself where I would even consider purchasing a China manufactured knife. I buy what I think is cool, and for me I simply don't think that Chinese knives would bring me enjoyment.
 
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Reswob said:
So now people will buy from PRC companies to save a few bucks, which takes those dollars away from US companies
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In my case I just like titanium and I'm over paying $150 and up for peel-ply G10. US makers have no right to call dibs on my wallet anyway.
 
I like some of the newer WE designs. But when it comes down to it I’m gonna look to buy something made in the US instead (or even Taiwan). Especially after what the world has been thru the last 2 years. I have to be able to live with myself lol
I have nothing against Chinese citizens, but everything against their government.
 
tony281sc2 said:
I like some of the newer WE designs. But when it comes down to it I’m gonna look to buy something made in the US instead (or even Taiwan). Especially after what the world has been thru the last 2 years. I have to be able to live with myself lol
I have nothing against Chinese citizens, but everything against their government.
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Citizens there are a serfs only
They don't own factories or export companies
There are NO PRIVATE properties of any kind AT ALL
All and Everything is owned and ruled by ccp !!!
 
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Zulus said:
Citizens there are a serfs only
They don't own factories or export companies
There are NO PRIVATE properties any kind AT ALL
All and Everything is owned and ruled by ccp !!!
Click to expand...

A gun to your head, which current production knife from a Chinese manufacturer do you buy?

You must pick one, you cant tell the guard to pull the trigger…
 
Zulus said:
Citizens there are a serfs only
They don't own factories or export companies
There are NO PRIVATE properties any kind AT ALL
All and Everything is owned and ruled by ccp !!!
Click to expand...
I know, their govt is disgusting 🤮 surveillance on their own people, slave labor (more or less) etc
 
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