Future of production knives

I have so many knives, I'll be ok. I don't tend to buy knives from China*, and find it irritating that I essentially have to research every brand I see for sale on the Exchange, because 90% of them are made by We or Reate, and so get crossed off my interest list. Ya know, I remember back when knifemakers were people who made stuff. Now, many of them are just Instafamous dudes who put together some drawings in CAD or wherever, and send 'em off to the Chinese along with a check, and get back a box full of knives they didn't turn so much as a single screw on. This is even happening in the Traditional world as well.

However, it is what it is. Enough people today don't care where their knives come from that neither those manufacturers, nor the makers (and their Instagram fans) who've outsourced their designs to China will miss my knife dollars.

The good news for me is that there are still companies here in the US and elsewhere (like Italy or Switzerland) making knives I enjoy. It'll be fine. :D

* Save it, thanks.
The one higher end Chinese made knife I have is interesting because WE did the machining of the parts, but the maker here actually did the hand fitting, tuning, sharpening and customization. But it was also a very limited run of 100.
 
I know, their govt is disgusting 🤮 surveillance on their own people, slave labor (more or less) etc

If you earn $5-10 daily for legal 24 kours a day (sic), not so slave job
what do you call it ?
friedom perhaps ...
 
Ya know, I remember back when knifemakers were people who made stuff. Now, many of them are just Instafamous dudes who put together some drawings in CAD or wherever, and send 'em off to the Chinese along with a check, and get back a box full of knives they didn't turn so much as a single screw on. This is even happening in the Traditional world as well.

However, it is what it is. Enough people today don't care where their knives come from that neither those manufacturers, nor the makers (and their Instagram fans) who've outsourced their designs to China will miss my knife dollars.
I think the upside to high-quality Chinese OEMs is specifically that it opens the door for some really talented U.S. designers to commercialize their products. Some of these Instafamous dudes producing their first-ever knives are frankly producing more interesting designs than old-school US companies, and definitely more interesting designs than the Chinese companies are designing in house. Thinking T.W. Price, Vero Engineering, Quiet Carry, Vargaknives, EMP EDC, etc. These mostly one-man shops have put the big three to shame over the past couple years.
 
it doesn't matter where its made
but by whom its made.
companies seldom remain great
or at the top forever.
eventually its corporate greed that will bury what's left.
long live free enterprise...
 
As a general contractor, I buy more tools a year than I would like. When I was just a hand on the job site, my tools lasted me for years. Somewhere along the line over the last 10 years, we employers supply many of the hand tools to our gallant work force so they can leave them out in the rain, drop them off scaffolds, steal them, break them when they are made at me, and sometimes... use them as designed. So I buy a lot of tools. Tools I don't want to buy.

Back in '72 when I started in the trades, ALL hand tools were made in USA. And on all Union jobs, the tools had to be certified to be 100% made in USA with 100% USA made parts. Over the years, it was discovered that some tool manufacturers used "offshore" parts and that was finally accepted. Then tools started to come in from "offshore" that were pretty good tools at a little better price, so they gained acceptance. It was a ongoing, slow process, but the "offshore" guys gained market share and acceptance by manufacturing a good product at a good price. Economics is just as simple as "they don't pay crap" and "they use slaves". In my business, if the quality isn't there to keep your expensive workers going at it, the tools won't sell. The math is easy; if you have two guys that cost you $80 an hour, you can't have them stop for a couple of hours (or more) so you can replace a faulty tool.

So as time marched on, so did the acceptance of tools not made in the USA. Please look it up before responding, and read the packaging carefully on tools. Tools makers like DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc., all proudly have the Amercian flag on some of their packaging as they have some of their tools (DeWalt says some saws, some drills, some recip saws, some impact drivers, mostly the models for the big box stores) made in USA. More accurately, they are proudly "made" in USA from globally sourced parts. I watched a video supplied to the building community supplied by DeWalt, and they tout they have opened 7 new plants to "make" their tools here in the USA. Like I suspect many production knife makers do in the USA, they are screwing parts and pieces together from bins of the same from whomever makes them the cheapest.

I know the local tool rep for Ridgid tools (Home Depot, not the plumber's tools of which some are actually are made here) and his company, TTI, overseas the manufacture of many tool brands and operate the actual manufacture of same. He has worked for a few companies as a rep, and he told me that he knows of only a couple of companies that make their own tools sourced from USA made parts. A good article here on how all major hand tool companies are now owned by offshore conglomerates: https://www.protoolreviews.com/milwaukee-vs-dewalt/

It's an older article and other acquisitions have been made and manufacturing processes have changed, but it is easy to see the gist by scrolling down the page. It doesn't mention all the companies that were ground up in the process, or companies that were purchased then quietly dissolved.

I see the knife industry following this model. Just a few years ago mentioning "Chinese" caused and immediate 200 post blast that usually ended when a moderator shut down the thread. There were claims of un-American activities, support of Communism, support of child slavery, nefarious plots to undermine the USA economy through the knife world, and all manner of other xenophobic accusations were on block/copy/print to get on the thread as soon as possible to prove you were a real American. Lots of chest pounding.

Look how much is changed... I NEVER would have believed it. Threads like "show us you favorite Chinese knives" and "which is the best Chinese maker" are common. Open, public discussions of favorite Chinese knives used to be kind of acceptable if they could attach an American maker's name to it, but now even that isn't necessary. People post here giddy with excitement over receipt of their new Chinese offering and gush about the quality and others jump in immediately to claim the same, and offer their own stories of how much they like Chinese brands. The about face is still a little weird for me, but here we are. I think the transformation will continue on with American makers that already buy bearings, screws, standoffs, G10, ferrules, FRN, etc, and off shore milling/machining bits going on until someone starts (and they may already!) start buying blade stampings, liner stampings, foreign made metals (already!) etc.

Like DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc., they will proudly brag that they are "made in the USA" but that will mean something completely different than it does to someone of my age when Made in USA meant just that.

Putting the soapbox up...
 
I'm going to continue buying from free makers. All my Chinese knives are from before I really got into knives. They are from my last BudK purchase, basically. I have a free CRKT Squid in D2 and Micarta from BHQ, I have a Rough Ryder Cotton Sampler, a Schrade/OT Workmate that is decent and a Scr/Imperial slippie that is terrible. A decent-looking wooden-scaled dagger with half-serrations that I got from the mall at 12, that was my first carry knife.

I try to be conscious about what I buy though, and I don't even want to kick up the tax help to their gov't. The Workmate I bought because I specifically needed it and had not discovered Case, the Cotton Sampler I got from RR because I couldn't find an American one, Case doesn't produce it anymore. Rest of my knives are American, Taiwanese, Japanese, French, German... and I plan to keep it as close to that as I can, though I may buy one more Rough Ryder. Not into all those soulless titanium framelocks and the WE knives that come out every day.
 
Next time try Old Hickory Cotton Sampler :^)
I saw that in my cotton sampler search, and I have a soft spot for Ontario/Old Hickory as my first quality knife was an Ontario SP-1, but at the time I was really looking for the old-school folding samplers with the near-saber-like grind.
But it actually seems like a fairly utilitarian design for some outdoor work and digging plant-holes, I may get one soon as it's perfect for a project I want to do!
 
As a general contractor, I buy more tools a year than I would like. When I was just a hand on the job site, my tools lasted me for years. Somewhere along the line over the last 10 years, we employers supply many of the hand tools to our gallant work force so they can leave them out in the rain, drop them off scaffolds, steal them, break them when they are made at me, and sometimes... use them as designed. So I buy a lot of tools. Tools I don't want to buy.
WTF? This is wild, lol.
 
The company I work for has actually been moving parts out of China to India, Mexico and Taiwan. It hasn't been easy, no-one likes new suppliers once the current team is settled, but I think it's a net positive for the future. If manufacturing can't come back to the US, at least it's out of the PRC.
 
I think the upside to high-quality Chinese OEMs is specifically that it opens the door for some really talented U.S. designers to commercialize their products. Some of these Instafamous dudes producing their first-ever knives are frankly producing more interesting designs than old-school US companies, and definitely more interesting designs than the Chinese companies are designing in house. Thinking T.W. Price, Vero Engineering, Quiet Carry, Vargaknives, EMP EDC, etc. These mostly one-man shops have put the big three to shame over the past couple years.

Politely, I disagree.
 
belIf we could restrict China's influence here to be restricted to knives ONLY...... I would be okay with that.
So said Millers Falls Tools, Bluegrass Tools, Disston Tools, Porter Cable Tools, Delta Tools, Belknap Tools, Milwaukee Tools (when made in Milwaukee and American owned), Stanley electrical tools, SKIL tools, Bosch tools that were made in USA by Americans, Bostitch tools completely made in USA, Oster tools, Plumb tools, DeWalt tools (yep, used to be made 100% in the USA by Americans), Emglo, Cooper tools, DeVilbiss, Weller tools... add another few hundred if you include the guys that made all the little things like specialty hammers and chisels and the really big stuff like gang saws, industrial width sanders, edge banders, etc.

And the limited list above is just my personal experience in using those tools as a trade carpenter/wood worker. No inclusion of the auto industry and all the other dozen industries that had tools made in USA to support their efforts.

So I guess it depends on who's wagon is in the ditch. Those folks and their many thousands of jobs lost in the wood working tool industry alone couldn't give a fig about a bunch of "knife enthusiasts" and their lust for great cutlery.
 
I think that today the appreciation for "artesan" or indie products is higher than ever.
 
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