Future of production knives

It's never going to happen as long as Americans get paid more and American regulations and laws are more strict. I mean, people (many here in this thread) keep talking about how awesome it is that China can do all these things for less, which amazes me due to the obliviousness of such statements. Oh man, Usain Bolt totally crushed that other guy in a wheelchair in the hundred yard dash! I'm definitely a big fan of Bolt over Wheelchair Guy for sure. As an analogy, a bit sloppy, but the point is the same: if our countries were level playing fields in all respects, something tells me We and Reate knives wouldn't be nearly as cheap as they currently cost when Employee #617 who works at Machine #874 located in Guongdong Factory Building #6 is now making what, say, an employee at Spyderco's Golden, CO facility, or somebody at Buck, or Benchmade makes.

Also, a word on the auto industry: that wasn't outright competition that we got beat on, though I recognize that that's always a popular theory. There were a lot of shenanigans that went down, that essentially cut US automakers off at the knees. An awful lot predatory pricing, and market dumping went on.
Actually, I understand just fine. I'm still seeing an attempt at leveling your subjective personal experience against a company in an objective way. Maybe work on that. Also, may I ask what knife manufacturer you work for, and how many years of knife manufacturing experience you have? You're attempting to speak on design and manufacturing methodologies for different companies, and I'd like to know what personal experience makes this anything more than your subjective opinion. You keep speaking about "difficult", which means you must have some extensive hands-on experience to share. Thanks!
Are you actually arguing that slab handles are more difficult to make than contoured ones or that bead blasting is more difficult than a hand-rubbed satin finish? Now you're just being disingenuous. I know you like to argue, but now you're just making yourself look silly.

You don't need manufacturing experience to be able to say whether one thing is made better than another. If you have two comparable items and one has flaws while the other doesn't, that's a straightforward comparison requiring zero expertise. My experience with Golden's quality isn't unique. You've been on BF a long time, so you have undoubtedly seen at least one of the many "Spyderco QC" threads here, or maybe one of the ones on Spyderco's own forum. I guess you don't want to hear it, but Golden's reputation for quality is much closer to Benchmade's than it is to ProTech, TRM or Hogue. Those three all put out knives with better quality and comparable prices to Spyderco and Benchmade. Are they not competing on an equal playing field? If anything, Spyderco being in Colorado gives it a better situation in terms of regulation and labor than any of those competitors except maybe Hogue (Nevada). California (ProTech), Massachusetts (TRM) and Oregon (Benchmade) are all "worse" places to be an employer.
 
It's never going to happen as long as Americans get paid more and American regulations and laws are more strict. I mean, people (many here in this thread) keep talking about how awesome it is that China can do all these things for less, which amazes me due to the obliviousness of such statements. Oh man, Usain Bolt totally crushed that other guy in a wheelchair in the hundred yard dash! I'm definitely a big fan of Bolt over Wheelchair Guy for sure. As an analogy, a bit sloppy, but the point is the same: if our countries were level playing fields in all respects, something tells me We and Reate knives wouldn't be nearly as cheap as they currently cost when Employee #617 who works at Machine #874 located in Guongdong Factory Building #6 is now making what, say, an employee at Spyderco's Golden, CO facility, or somebody at Buck, or Benchmade makes.

Also, a word on the auto industry: that wasn't outright competition that we got beat on, though I recognize that that's always a popular theory. There were a lot of shenanigans that went down, that essentially cut US automakers off at the knees. An awful lot predatory pricing, and market dumping went on.
It's clearly possible because there are small U.S. shops that compete with Reate and WE on price and quality in the $200-300 range, and companies like CRK and Hinderer that compete at the higher end. But I suppose they manage it by producing a handful of select models and making them very well. I'm sure there's more labor involved OEM work when you're talking about many designs with limited runs of a few hundred to 1,000 units. But I'm just guessing. Maybe they can just take the CAD designs, plug them into the milling machines, and that's the lion's share of the work? Seems like it should be doable in the U.S., but no one has invested in the facilities to do it.
 
That doesn't track. You just spoke of it being a big part of why you purchase Chinese knives, because a bunch of Chinese companies offer materials cheaper than American companies* do. I mean, if your opinion is that Chinese knives are designed better, I don't agree with that in the slightest, and it's especially amusing considering how many products We/Reate make these days that are designed by Americans, and seem to be much better thought of than their in-house products.




* Because that's what happens when a company pays skilled Americans a living wage and benefits, versus employing a faceless army of drones running a bunch of machines in a country with a much lower income rate and COL.
I believe that the Reates I’ve gotten my hands on have been better designed than many American knives that I’ve gotten my hands on, the country of the designer being irrelevant to me. I don’t care where the designer is from. The materials are a large part of why I choose what I choose, but not everything. For example, when I’m able to buy a Reate through the secondary at the same price as a WE.

I don’t quite understand what doesn’t track. It’s my opinion—it’s irrelevant whether you agree or disagree. There is no right or wrong answer to a question that is answered differently by everyone.
 
Design of a knife can mean multiple things, including the material to use, how the functionality of the knife will be performed, ergonomics, dimension, weight, shape, aesthetics, etc. Some of them can be relatively objectively assessed whereas others are more subjective.
 
I'm not really sure what you mean by all this. Who assumes Russia is a constitutional republic with a similar economic system to the U.S.? Not me, for sure. And your general statements about Chinese IP theft and quality control problems are true, but also general. The only Chinese knives I buy are Reate-made ones on occasion. The quality is impeccable, and no one has ever accused them of stealing a design. Actually at this point most of their business model is being the OEM for designers and knife makers wanting to do midtech lines, the number of knives designed by their own internal designers is quite small now. If you have some specific complaint about Reate in terms of IP theft or quality control, I'm open to hearing it, but otherwise judging Reate because of Ganzo is like refusing to buy Chris Reeve because of Quartermaster. I mean... they're not the same thing.

And yes, of course Reate's taxes fund the Chinese government. That's pretty far removed from Reate somehow being complicit in or vital to Communist oppression. I'm Taiwanese and have more reason to be concerned about Communist China than I reckon most other Americans do, but I'm not getting bent out of shape about Reate's taxes. No matter where you live, you're gonna have to pay taxes, and some of it is going to things you don't support, but you don't have much choice in the matter.

My point here is that of your general issues with China, none of them seem to apply to Reate. I don't know about the other Chinese companies, and Reate in China and CKF in Russia are the only ones with which I have experience and therefore the only ones I'm defending, but I think Reate has very much overcome the stigma of Chinese-made knives.

Maybe one day we'll have a great knife company in Pakistan and another country's knifemaking industry can get a reputation makeover!
I think you completely missed my point. I’m not accusing anyone currently of IP theft. What I’m stating is that past indiscretion at the hands of Chinese companies has created a stigma around buying from China. The stigma being that Chinese companies steal IP and make low quality items.

As for Russia, there is a broad understanding in the US that Russia ceased being a communist dictatorship after the 1980s. Is it still a Constitutional Republic? No. That doesn’t mean perception isn’t somehow what it is.

As for your statement regarding Reate’s taxes: yes, companies pay taxes and Reate may be far removed from the tax payments. However, that doesn’t somehow mean I like shipping my hard earned money into the hands of one of their taxpayers, so they can in-turn fund actual, literal genocide. I never stated Reate was complicit or pivotal to communist oppression.

You choose to put your money in their hands and you don’t have any ethical qualms. That’s fine. I choose to avoid it when I can, because I have ethical qualms about indirectly funding the Chinese government.
 
I believe that the Reates I’ve gotten my hands on have been better designed than many American knives that I’ve gotten my hands on, the country of the designer being irrelevant to me. I don’t care where the designer is from. The materials are a large part of why I choose what I choose, but not everything. For example, when I’m able to buy a Reate through the secondary at the same price as a WE.

I don’t quite understand what doesn’t track. It’s my opinion—it’s irrelevant whether you agree or disagree. There is no right or wrong answer to a question that is answered differently by everyone.
Given that it’s your opinion, then that’s fine.

Me personally, I’d want to own and use more American knives before I was claiming that a bunch of wack designs from Reate were better. 🤣
 
Last edited:
Are you actually arguing that slab handles are more difficult to make than contoured ones or that bead blasting is more difficult than a hand-rubbed satin finish? Now you're just being disingenuous. I know you like to argue, but now you're just making yourself look silly.

You don't need manufacturing experience to be able to say whether one thing is made better than another. If you have two comparable items and one has flaws while the other doesn't, that's a straightforward comparison requiring zero expertise. My experience with Golden's quality isn't unique. You've been on BF a long time, so you have undoubtedly seen at least one of the many "Spyderco QC" threads here, or maybe one of the ones on Spyderco's own forum. I guess you don't want to hear it, but Golden's reputation for quality is much closer to Benchmade's than it is to ProTech, TRM or Hogue. Those three all put out knives with better quality and comparable prices to Spyderco and Benchmade. Are they not competing on an equal playing field? If anything, Spyderco being in Colorado gives it a better situation in terms of regulation and labor than any of those competitors except maybe Hogue (Nevada). California (ProTech), Massachusetts (TRM) and Oregon (Benchmade) are all "worse" places to be an employer.
Yep, all I’m seeing is a giant wall of text that confirms that you were attempting to make an objective “analysis” using subjective metrics. Furthermore, I've also seen plenty of Chinese QC issues as well, so what does that prove? There's a gent with an issued he posted about today in the EDC thread. So....?

Anyway, not a good look. Tim Reeves would probably be highly entertained by the idea that someone with zero knife making experience was claiming that his knives were easy to make, whereas a Chinese knife made mostly by bolting machines parts together was difficult. Amazing.
 
Anyway, listen fellas. Enjoy your Chinese knives, I wish those companies all the best. In the meantime, many of us will keep spending our dollars on the home team, because that still means something (to me anyway). Maybe one day in the far future when this whole discussion becomes an apples versus apples and not "Let's discuss the ways that American companies are forced to compete against companies who are in a country whose market is completely controlled by its Government, and golly gee why can Chinese companies sell a ti flipper framelock in 20CV for $50 less than the Americans, can't be any valid reason!", we can revisit it. Something tells me that Chinese knives won't be less expensive at that point, which will negate the main factor some of you seem to have as your primary consideration when choosing a purchase. For now, I've said my piece here.
 
I think you completely missed my point. I’m not accusing anyone currently of IP theft. What I’m stating is that past indiscretion at the hands of Chinese companies has created a stigma around buying from China. The stigma being that Chinese companies steal IP and make low quality items.

As for Russia, there is a broad understanding in the US that Russia ceased being a communist dictatorship after the 1980s. Is it still a Constitutional Republic? No. That doesn’t mean perception isn’t somehow what it is.

As for your statement regarding Reate’s taxes: yes, companies pay taxes and Reate may be far removed from the tax payments. However, that doesn’t somehow mean I like shipping my hard earned money into the hands of one of their taxpayers, so they can in-turn fund actual, literal genocide. I never stated Reate was complicit or pivotal to communist oppression.

You choose to put your money in their hands and you don’t have any ethical qualms. That’s fine. I choose to avoid it when I can, because I have ethical qualms about indirectly funding the Chinese government.
I guess what I'm wondering is how many degrees of separation from funding the Chinese government do you think is appropriate?
 
I doubt we'll see the end of American made knives because much of this industry is by and for enthusiasts. That said, I do think it's very difficult for American companies to compete with domestically produced designs in the under $100 space. There are a few outstanding deals from Kershaw, Buck and the like, but for the most part I find that in terms of materials, designs that catch my interest and even fit and finish CIVIVI, in particular, is head and shoulders above most modern, US made knives with comparable pricing.

That said, most of my high end purchases are American, Italian, Japanese, Taiwanese, German or Spanish because I find those designs more appealing.
 
I guess what I'm wondering is how many degrees of separation from funding the Chinese government do you think is appropriate?
Are you trying to trap me by using some sort of manufacturing regression? Are you going to logic this down to the machines used to make the knives? Was that your plan? I’m not here to play pedantic games involving minutiae. I’d prefer not to buy something stamped “made in China” if I can absolutely avoid it.
 
The world is a very big place; there will always be plenty of knives coming out of other countries.

While the percentage of knives made in China has seemed to increase, I’m not sure that the actual number of models made outside of China has gone down as a result. The overall number of new knives has just increased across the board.

In other words, while it may be annoying to have to scroll past 50 knives on Blade HQ’s “new arrivals” page before you find something not made in China, there are still more choices from all over the globe than there ever has been.
 
I have a few thoughts and ill try to avoid getting political, though this conversation is kind of hard to avoid that realm.
For starters, China’s population is multiple times that of the U.S. population. To think that every single person loves their government would be insane. For example, think of the dividing opinions in the U.S., you’d be hard pressed to find 10 people from 10 different cities that shared the exact same view. Also, consider cultural conditioning- Chinese society is completely different and will therefore accept completely different standards than we will stateside. I don’t know the future of international politics, but I do know that my little bit of money spent on Chinese knives will not have a drastic effect on that outcome. For one, the country has hundreds of other industries in which they are cornering the market. Secondly, if you remember the cultural structure aspect, they aren’t going to change their whole system because a knife company doesn’t make it. Thats like saying that we need to uproot our way of life because Sears went out of business.

My second point is that China has arguably much more of the required capacity for large scale manufacturing. Manufacturers have been moving equipment there for decades, along with those machines already being built there. They have cheap labor, high tech methods, and a huge pool of qualified technicians to operate them. Think of how many $1 gas station knives there are. Sure, they use cheap labor, but those components aren’t made by hand- they are mass produced with tons of manufacturing infrastructure. Until knifemakers in the U.S. can innovate methods or increase capacity, it’s not a level playing field.

Finally, it seems like most of the arguments against Chinese knife companies comes down to support/opposition of the government. My thought is this- governments change, sometimes rather quickly. In ten years the landscape could be completely different. I highly doubt the same people who won’t buy Kizer or We because they’re “funding the government” wouldn’t willingly send in extra taxes here in the U.S. because they know that they can make better use of their money than anybody else can. So, does that mean you won’t buy Benchmade because they will be taxed and that money will support something you don’t agree with? Vote with our dollars works on a small-medium scale, not in the big picture when it doesn’t matter which small business you decide to support- the big man always gets his cut.

TL:DR Who knows which countries will be the world leaders in a decade? Buy knives because you want them, because unless you’re contributing billions of dollars to a company, you’re not going to make a difference in the long run.
 
My views on China's outdoor knife production

Between 1970-1999, Japan dominated the OEM market for knives. This was mainly because the cost of production in West Gernany had risen to the point that it was no longer competitive. And like Solingen, Seki had a long history of knife making. The knife makers of Seki benefited greatly, some growing from small shops into big factories. During this period China (PRC, Red China. Communist China) worked towards correcting the total economic mess that their communist/socialist programs had made since 1949 when they came to power. In 1978 the Premier of China visited Japan and met with the Chairman and founder of Panasonic, and convinced him to open an electronics factory in China. This was a landmark event that set the path for China's future as a massive manufacturing power. In the 1980s the Chinese government created 3 state owned companies to produce cutlery, and they chose the city of Yangjiang in Guangzhou Province. The factories grew in size and number and as early as 1994, Chna surpassed Japan in cutlery export volume to the United States. By 2015 there were at least 1500 factories in Yangjiang, today probably more, dwarfing the production capacity of any other country in the world.

China's rise in the knife industry is the result of not just extremely low labor costs but careful well thought out planning. They emulated Seki Japan's pattern by dominating the OEM contracting market through low cost mass production. But the Seki makers had agreed with the American importers not to enter the US market themselves so as not to compete on their own "turf". Hence a company such as G.Sakai which has made knives for Gerber,Pacific Cutlery(Benchmade),Al Mar, Spyderco,Cold Steel, SOG and countless lesser known importers never sold their brand directly in the U.S.
The Chinese factories saw this as a failure on the part of the Seki makers and once having established market dominance as an OEM maker jumped to market their own brand names in the US and elsewhere. these are the WE, CIVVI, Reates, Kizer etc that are available today. The US importers who helped the Yangjiang factories get a start in the industry just a couple of decades ago are now competing with them.

But quality control issues haunted China production and by 2005 many US importers began to shift away from China production in favor of Taiwan. And while Taiwan factories had been doing very limited OEM contracts since the late 1980s, it was really in the mid 2000s that they came into full force. And their quality has improved greatly in the last 15 years or so. Taiwan was a Japanese colony from 1895 to 1945 and having very good political/trade relations with Japan and the US has easy access to both countries' steels. While Taiwan itself has a steel industry they don't make the kind used in cutlery. This contrasts with China which has eagerly developed it's own steel industry to cover cutlery needs and is another target of market domination. However there have been considerable quality and representation issues that have arisen over the years and few knife makers outside of China itself appear willing to use them. The Russian maker Kyzlyar seems to be an exception.

For a US knife maker while "all US made" may be the ideal, the reality of controlling costs is part of business. So OEM production outside of the U.S. may be a neccessity to be economically viable. I remember A.G.Russell giving a heartfelt explanation (practically an apology) to his customers as to how he had no economic choice but to contract in China for some models like 20 years ago. But for those who actually follow international news and global events, China of 2005 (Peaceful Rise) and 2021 is a different animal. And they would be geopolitical, strategic and moral differences. US makers could OEM contract with factories in nations that do not poses these issues. Or at least are US allies, not adversaries.

There are some who say "Japan also used to make crap and they improved, and China is the same". This is an overly simplistic view. There is no issue with quality of MIC knives anymore, they have the experience and resources to produce anything from low end to high end. But can one name any major US knife company whose top level models are MIC? Most US knife companies allocate MIC production to their lowest end models.
In constrast , in the 1980s-90s the top models of Al Mar, SOG, etc were made in Seki Japan. I believe this is just another reason why Chinese brands have entered the US market on their own. I am not sure of why this may be the case, it may be anything from issues of quality or consumer image, to fear of copying/counterfeiting.
And this brings us to another notable difference; China is the world's biggest counterfeiter of all manufactured products, not just knives. And all countries, the US, EU countries and Japan are victimized. And the Chinese government, an unelected one party dictatorship won't do anything about it. Knives that were made in Japan in the 1980s that were copies of other existing models, were made to the order of the contracting US importers. For example Guttman;s Gerber copies or Taylor-Seto's CS Tanto copies. And none were true counterfeits (label copied) to my knowledge.

Returning to the OP's post, it is outdated. It asks about US makers going to China production. That already happened two decades ago. And today in 2021, the trend is changing. In my opion, companies like the new owners of Al Mar and GSM etc are taking a gamble by continuing what has worked in the past. Between the geopolitcal standoff in the Indo-Pacific, rising costs in China and tightening of autocratic rule and Covid19, I am seeing more of a trend in general among business' and consumers to move away from China production. This of course does not necessarily mean that all China OEM manufacture will end, just that other countries will be considered and contracted as a source, especially with essential products like semiconductors and anything even remotely connected to national secirity/

Some put inordinate weight onto a "cultural difference" between the US (west) and China. There isn't as much a difference as one may think. The real difference comes from the form of government China has, one which did not even allow private ownership of land/property until 2004. As recently as 5 years ago it was estimated that 80% of business' in China were SOEs (State Owned Enterprises) either directly or indirectly. It's a pretty good bet that the best, worst, copies, and counterfeits are all comming out of the Yangjiang factories, where nothing can happen without either government approval or low level corruption. The latter of which is quite rampant.
The probabilty of a change in governent in China which has been ruled by the CCP since 1949, and where the mere existence of any other poltical party is illegal, is very low. It would take an internal revolution within the CCP itself, something that the current leader-for0life isn't going to let happen.

I realize this lengthy diatribe will only make any sense to some of the older folks here who have seen all this happen. Or at least follow current events.
And that some of the younger guys are simply seeing today's high end Chinese knife offerings and none of this will make any sense or difference.
Just my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Unbridled capitalism must always reduce costs of production to maximize profits . This is a basic , immutable principle .

Unless other factors inhibit , manufacturing and all other services will migrate to the cheapest source of labor , materials , overhead , taxes etc .

Cheapest human resources and /or robotics . Little or no safety or environmental regulations .

China et al , did not engender this process . They are only the opportunistic benefactors .

If there is blame , it belongs right here at home .
 
I don’t buy Chinese knives. I just don’t. As such, I guess I’m out on future production knives. Oh well…
 
Unbridled capitalism must always reduce costs of production to maximize profits . This is a basic , immutable principle .

Unless other factors inhibit , manufacturing and all other services will migrate to the cheapest source of labor , materials , overhead , taxes etc .

Cheapest human resources and /or robotics . Little or no safety or environmental regulations .

China et al , did not engender this process . They are only the opportunistic benefactors .

If there is blame , it belongs right here at home .
This was, in a way, what I was ultimately trying to say. And we aren’t changing course any time soon. Costs keep going up in the U.S., both materials and labor, along with stricter manufacturing requirements and of course simply less capacity to mass produce knives.

I also think that the US knife industry needs to work on innovating if it wants to gain traction again. It seems that U.S. companies get ahold of one patented feature, or one identifying aspect, and run with it for every single model they make (Benchmade folders all look very similar to me, Spyderco puts the hole straight and center of every design, Emerson’s all seem like the same design with different blade shapes, Bucks have had the same basic design for half a century, Etc.)
This is another advantage that Chinese companies have- they don’t necessarily have to worry about protecting a patent, and being state supported means that they can afford to produce wildly different designs. As expensive as American made products are, it slows the ability for US companies to release a new idea for fear of striking out with a design. I get a couple emails a month about the newest Civivi models, but American companies only release new models a couple times a year. These days it’s all about the newest steel. The average user couldn’t tell a difference or even care.

I don’t agree with these realities, but it’s an important thing to consider when discussing the future of production knives. In a perfect world, U.S. companies would take the risk and push the envelope. Knives have been changing drastically in the last 50 years, I’d like to see that innovation continue and I think it would help American companies stay competitive.
 
My views on China's outdoor knife production

Between 1970-1999, Japan dominated the OEM market for knives. This was mainly because the cost of production in West Gernany had risen to the point that it was no longer competitive. And like Solingen, Seki had a long history of knife making. The knife makers of Seki benefited greatly, some growing from small shops into big factories. During this period China (PRC, Red China. Communist China) worked towards correcting the total economic mess that their communist/socialist programs had made since 1949 when they came to power. In 1978 the Premier of China visited Japan and met with the Chairman and founder of Panasonic, and convinced him to open an electronics factory in China. This was a landmark event that set the path for China's future as a massive manufacturing power. In the 1980s the Chinese government created 3 state owned companies to produce cutlery, and they chose the city of Yangjiang in Guangzhou Province. The factories grew in size and number and as early as 1994, Chna surpassed Japan in cutlery export volume to the United States. By 2015 there were at least 1500 factories in Yangjiang, today probably more, dwarfing the production capacity of any other country in the world.

China's rise in the knife industry is the result of not just extremely low labor costs but careful well thought out planning. They emulated Seki Japan's pattern by dominating the OEM contracting market through low cost mass production. But the Seki makers had agreed with the American importers not to enter the US market themselves so as not to compete on their own "turf". Hence a company such as G.Sakai which has made knives for Gerber,Pacific Cutlery(Benchmade),Al Mar, Spyderco,Cold Steel, SOG and countless lesser known importers never sold their brand directly in the U.S.
The Chinese factories saw this as a failure on the part of the Seki makers and once having established market dominance as an OEM maker jumped to market their own brand names in the US and elsewhere. these are the WE, CIVVI, Reates, Kizer etc that are available today. The US importers who helped the Yangjiang factories get a start in the industry just a couple of decades ago are now competing with them.

But quality control issues haunted China production and by 2005 many US importers began to shift away from China production in favor of Taiwan. And while Taiwan factories had been doing very limited OEM contracts since the late 1980s, it was really in the mid 2000s that they came into full force. And their quality has improved greatly in the last 15 years or so. Taiwan was a Japanese colony from 1895 to 1945 and having very good political/trade relations with Japan and the US has easy access to both countries' steels. While Taiwan itself has a steel industry they don't make the kind used in cutlery. This contrasts with China which has eagerly developed it's own steel industry to cover cutlery needs and is another target of market domination. However there have been considerable quality and representation issues that have arisen over the years and few knife makers outside of China itself appear willing to use them. The Russian maker Kyzlyar seems to be an exception.

For a US knife maker while "all US made" may be the ideal, the reality of controlling costs is part of business. So OEM production outside of the U.S. may be a neccessity to be economically viable. I remember A.G.Russell giving a heartfelt explanation (practically an apology) to his customers as to how he had no economic choice but to contract in China for some models like 20 years ago. But for those who actually follow international news and global events, China of 2005 (Peaceful Rise) and 2021 is a different animal. And they would be geopolitical, strategic and moral differences. US makers could OEM contract with factories in nations that do not poses these issues. Or at least are US allies, not adversaries.

There are some who say "Japan also used to make crap and they improved, and China is the same". This is an overly simplistic view. There is no issue with quality of MIC knives anymore, they have the experience and resources to produce anything from low end to high end. But can one name any major US knife company whose top level models are MIC? Most US knife companies allocate MIC production to their lowest end models.
In constrast , in the 1980s-90s the top models of Al Mar, SOG, etc were made in Seki Japan. I believe this is just another reason why Chinese brands have entered the US market on their own. I am not sure of why this may be the case, it may be anything from issues of quality or consumer image, to fear of copying/counterfeiting.
And this brings us to another notable difference; China is the world's biggest counterfeiter of all manufactured products, not just knives. And all countries, the US, EU countries and Japan are victimized. And the Chinese government, an unelected one party dictatorship won't do anything about it. Knives that were made in Japan in the 1980s that were copies of other existing models, were made to the order of the contracting US importers. For example Guttman;s Gerber copies or Taylor-Seto's CS Tanto copies. And none were true counterfeits (label copied) to my knowledge.

Returning to the OP's post, it is outdated. It asks about US makers going to China production. That already happened two decades ago. And today in 2021, the trend is changing. In my opion, companies like the new owners of Al Mar and GSM etc are taking a gamble by continuing what has worked in the past. Between the geopolitcal standoff in the Indo-Pacific, rising costs in China and tightening of autocratic rule and Covid19, I am seeing more of a trend in general among business' and consumers to move away from China production. This of course does not necessarily mean that all China OEM manufacture will end, just that other countries will be considered and contracted as a source, especially with essential products like semiconductors and anything even remotely connected to national secirity/

Some put inordinate weight onto a "cultural difference" between the US (west) and China. There isn't as much a difference as one may think. The real difference comes from the form of government China has, one which did not even allow private ownership of land/property until 2004. As recent;y as 5 years ago it was estimated that 80% of business' in China were SOEs (State Owned Enterprises) either directly or indirectly. It's a pretty good bet that the best, worst, copies, and counterfeits are all comming out of the Yangjiang factories, where nothing can happen without either government approval or low level corruption. The latter of which is quite rampant.
The probabilty of a change in governent in China which has been ruled by the CCP since 1949, and where the mere existence of any other poltical party is illegal, is very low. It would take an internal revolution within the CCP itself, something that the current leader-for0life isn't going to let happen.

I realize this lengthy diatribe will only make any sense to some of the older folks here who have seen all this happen. Or at least follow current events.
And that some of the younger guys are simply seeing today's high end Chinese knife offerings and none of this will make any sense or difference.
Just my opinion.
Thanks for typing this out and sharing your thoughts. A lot of good information, and well written.

It sort of reads out that these companies were helped out, then bit the hand that fed them.

I have very little respect for thieves, but am also not naive to the fact that corruption is abundant on all soils.

It is difficult to innovate when your work can be quickly stolen with little to no recourse.

It is equally difficult to remain competitive when faced with over-regulation, increasing overhead, and a set of rules that only apply to your business but not others.

A strange time we are in, but I am hopeful that the future for the local US knife industry can still compete and thrive.
 
Back
Top