Ganzo 710 rip off BM Rift

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I think most of us have an innate sense of right and wrong. It's mostly a matter of what we choose to pay attention to. And there's ALWAYS more than one way to look at things . . . particularly when money enters the picture.

The key is, we all want to look good. It's just that some folks are willing to go to greater lengths to get there than others. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who has ever bought something they couldn't afford to make themselves look good has no business casting stones at those who buy things they shouldn't but can afford to make themselves look good.
 
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bld522 said:
Well it's really about both. Can you separate a company from the products it makes? Some say yes. Some say no. If a company makes both original products and copied products, is it OK to buy their originals if you don't buy their copies? Some say yes. Some say no. Last but not least, if a company makes copies, is it OK to disparage the quality of those copies if you've never personally seen or handled them but you're serving a "greater good"? Some say yes. Some say no. So where do I draw the line?
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You're right, it is about both. And I guess I had something to do with making it about both since I mentioned other knife companies that produce copies and asked for peoples opinions on them.

There's enough of the skeptic in me that if you're going to disparage the quality of a counterfeit, copy or knockoff, you're going to have to prove it. Otherwise, we can argue the ethics and morals of doing business in them until we're red in the face and very little will change.
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To preface my response, let me say that I believe the term "counterfeit" is one that is clearly defined, for example- counterfeit money. Counterfeiting, as in- creating a fake item with the intent to commit fraud is a crime, whether it's currency, purses, clothing, knives, etc.

I believe the term "copy" is also clearly defined as an imitation, etc. And as long as the copy is clearly identified as a copy (like having the company name clearly etched into it), then there is no attempt at fraud, and that is not a crime.

But in my research I have found different definitions of the term "knockoff", and since the definition of that term is varied and vague, I decline to address it, as I like to be as accurate as possible in my use of the English language.

That being said, although it's true that one cannot accurately speak on the quality of a knife that they haven't personally experienced, I personally believe that it is acceptable to disparage counterfeit items, without firsthand experience, since they represent a criminal act. And I think it's fair to disparage them if only for that reason. But I agree with you that if one is going to comment on the quality of an item, that they should have something to back it up.

I appreciate your post. Even if we disagree, you strike me as a very reasonable person. And while I agree that a discussion like this is unlikely to change minds (and I have no interest in changing minds), this is after all a knife discussion forum, so what else are we gonna talk about ;).
 
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braillediver said:
True and since you seem to be on the fence with the basics.
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If I'm reading you right, it seems like there's a lot of contradiction in that one little sentence. First you agree with me, then you go on to pass judgement on me. That is, if I'm reading you right.

Personally, and as I said in the post you quoted from, I don't judge other peoples morals or ethics based on their purchase of legal products. But that's me.

And there's certainly no fence-sitting on my part when it comes to the subject of copies and counterfeits. If you read a little further in the thread, you would have seen in post #30 where I drew a clear distinction between copies and counterfeits. I also made my feelings very clear on both.

You've given your opinion about me personally, but I haven't seen you give your opinion regarding the topics of this thread. In particular, I would have been very interested to read your thoughts regarding the questions I have repeatedly asked- Would you buy from a brand that makes copies? Would you buy from a vendor who sells copies, or who sells the brands that make copies?

I find it interesting that people seem reluctant to answer those questions, but yet they are quite willing to offer opinions about me.
 
bld522 said:
I think most of us have an innate sense of right and wrong. It's mostly a matter of what we choose to pay attention to. And there's ALWAYS more than one way to look at things . . . particularly when money enters the picture.

The key is, we all want to look good. It's just that some folks are willing to go to greater lengths to get there than others. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who has ever bought something they couldn't afford to make themselves look good has no business casting stones at those who buy things they shouldn't but can afford to make themselves look good.
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Again, I appreciate your comments. And I agree about "casting stones".

One thing I would disagree with however is the part about everyone wanting to look good. When I buy a knife, I think only about what I like, what I need, how much I'm willing to spend, quality, and my feelings towards the maker, but I never concern myself with what other people might think of me. The fact that I have no problem saying that I have purchased 5 Ganzo knives (model g7211) is proof of that.
 
I was thinking about counterfeits, knockoffs and clones in the broader sense when I made my comment. But yeah, I agree that when I buy knives, I buy them primarily to satisfy myself. Still, it's nice to whip out a really nice knife when I'm around someone who's into knives. That doesn't happen very often, though.
 
killgar said:
I believe the term "copy" is also clearly defined as an imitation, etc. And as long as the copy is clearly identified as a copy (like having the company name clearly etched into it), then there is no attempt at fraud, and that is not a crime.
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Maybe not fraud, but it is design theft.

killgar said:
Would you buy from a brand that makes copies? Would you buy from a vendor who sells copies, or who sells the brands that make copies?

I find it interesting that people seem reluctant to answer those questions, but yet they are quite willing to offer opinions about me.
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People in general are hypocrites, I catch myself from time to time being guilty of it. All I can say, without rambling on and on, is good point.
 
killgar said:
Again, I appreciate your comments. And I agree about "casting stones".

One thing I would disagree with however is the part about everyone wanting to look good. When I buy a knife, I think only about what I like, what I need, how much I'm willing to spend, quality, and my feelings towards the maker, but I never concern myself with what other people might think of me. The fact that I have no problem saying that I have purchased 5 Ganzo knives (model g7211) is proof of that.
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I agree everyone here has bought copies and knock offs if you say you haven't you are lying and I'm not talking just knives look at all the stuff in your home it is what it is. But here on this forum you can be high and mighty an out blades but you are guilty of it in your home in electronics, clothes and so forth.
 
gonebad395 said:
I agree everyone here has bought copies and knock offs if you say you haven't you are lying and I'm not talking just knives look at all the stuff in your home it is what it is. But here on this forum you can be high and mighty an out blades but you are guilty of it in your home in electronics, clothes and so forth.
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You cannot presume to know everyone, out of a quarter million users. Your argument is invalid.
 
I can assume the TV you watch the phone you use a the clothes you wear the food you eat are almost all knock offs or clones of one company or another they are all guilty of it and so are we so yes my argument is valid
 
gonebad395 said:
I can assume the TV you watch the phone you use a the clothes you wear the food you eat are almost all knock offs or clones of one company or another they are all guilty of it and so are we so yes my argument is valid
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Again, no. I don't watch TV like many others here. Stop marking blanket generalizations about people to base your arguments. It is almost entirely projection.
 
OK so so you are so Amish lol your pc or phone you are are using are direct copies of the next company and the blanket comments are from the people that only feel this way about knives. Or are you not using a phone or a computer to post this and are mailing it in via snail mail ? the light sockets the electrical plugs etc etc are all mass copies of a original or do you research all the products in your home to make sure they are original. Or is it just knives that seriously concerns you it is what it is as I said before you can't avoid it. But since it's not your hobby or whatever it's ok.
 
ron_m80 said:
You cannot presume to know everyone, out of a quarter million users. Your argument is invalid.
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There are only 18,500 active users out of that quarter million. Was over 20,000 just 4 months ago.
Your argument is invalid.
:rolleyes:
I don't have so much of a problem with unbranded similar looking products, hell, even the makers here copy each other and manufacturer designs all the time. My biggest problem is with blatant fake branded clones purporting to be something they aren't.
 
I agree with the fake brands lol but to say I don't buy items that are copies clones or fakes look around your home everyone is guilty but because it's a knife forum about knives it's taboo
 
Something has to be sacred. This wouldn't be the only forum.

At least you, gonebad, stand where you stand. I think your view is quite liberal, but its yours and you own it. Have a good one.
 
Yep it is what it is if it's not what you are concerned with the hell with it. It's not your problem on other fronts just the knives front. At least you can agree to disagree because it's not always just about knives as liberal as you see my view remember the only other views are left and right and they are both connected the the same body lmao
 
Hell man I hold no hard feeling I might just buy a knife you make as long as you can prove everything you use to make it is not a copy or its original design and not a copy or clone like the anvil grinder etc etc
 
rcb2000 said:
In the end, is that what you really want the world to think about your culture? That you are really good at copying others work using low quality materials? You can keep that.
The telephone, computer, the airplane, cell phone, I could keep listing the things the USA has invented and often to this day made the best.
People from other countries that I work with often try and mock the fact that the US doesn't use the metric system to this day,,,, I tell them hey we were the first on the moon and the first to fly seems like we're doing all right without it
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Esav Benyamin said:
More importantly, we invented decimal currency. How long did it take the British to drop their old LSD? :D
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The US has many great innovators, but the telephone was invented by a Scot, the computer by an Englishman and decimal currency by Russia, long before the United States existed.
 
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