GEC 47 Viper: Brand New, Won't Take An Edge

[Zeta33]

Hi everyone. First post in traditionals for me.

I just got a Viper, it came uselessly dull, and it won't take an edge at any angle. I'm very confused. I've been sharpening all of my knives for years freehanded as well as with a sharp maker. I've tried to get it to 18dps all the way to 25dps, and it just won't get sharp regardless of angle. I've tried my whetstones, the sharp maker, compound loaded strops, everything. Is there a chance my blade is a dud or is there some learning curve with this specific knife that I'm missing? I've sharpened 1095 before and found it generally very easy to work with.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

*update: resolved*

So...The knife stays with me, no wicked edge sharpening for this one...

I ended up getting it extremely sharp, actually while responding to this thread. I've figured out what the issue was, and it's not the heat treating or my inability to sharpen. It's how dull the knife actually was. I wasn't kidding when I said that it couldn't cut a piece of paper. The knife was simply dull. It was essentially edgeless when I got it and surprisingly thick where the edge sits. I guess many of you were right, but it doesn't change the fact that no knife should ever be that dull, brand new. Am I disappointed in the knife? Yes, because I had to modify it immediately after receiving. Do I like it in general? Absolutely, it feels great in the hand, and looks awesome. I got very frustrated having to try and sharpen it over and over again thinking "it couldn't possibly need to be thinner", and in doing so, left some bad sharpening marks. I have sanded the blade up to 1000 grit so far and will be pursuing a mirror polished blade to hide the damage done by sharpening too shallow and hitting the face of the blade. Thank you for all your suggestions, and for keeping me company while I "fixed" this knife...

P.S. I know the knife isn't pretty anymore, and I've lost a decent bit of steel. Hopefully mirroring the blade will successfully rid the finish of the scratches. It is currently scratchy all over from prepping towards a polished blade.

P.S.S. The edge is 34 degrees inclusive.

 

[Bladenoobie1]

Hi everyone. First post in traditionals for me.

I just got a Viper, it came uselessly dull, and it won't take an edge at any angle. I'm very confused. I've been sharpening all of my knives for years freehanded as well as with a sharp maker. I've tried to get it to 18dps all the way to 25dps, and it just won't get sharp regardless of angle. I've tried my whetstones, the sharp maker, compound loaded strops, everything. Is there a chance my blade is a dud or is there some learning curve with this specific knife that I'm missing? I've sharpened 1095 before and found it generally very easy to work with.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

What are you using to reprofile the edge? You need to set a new crisp even bevel at your coarsest stone before you can do anything else. Are you forming a burr? Also to make use of the sharpmaker your inclusive bevel has to be sub 40 degrees. Say hypothetically even if your viper had a bad heat treat even with a soft or too hard of a blade you can still get a reasonably sharp edge. The viper is also a wharncliff. Should be easy to sharpen. I reprofiled mine and it currently whittles hair.

 

[meako]

stainless or carbon?

 

[Zeta33]

What are you using to reprofile the edge? You need to set a new crisp even bevel at your coarsest stone before you can do anything else. Are you forming a burr? Also to make use of the sharpmaker your inclusive bevel has to be sub 40 degrees. Say hypothetically even if your viper had a bad heat treat even with a soft or too hard of a blade you can still get a reasonably sharp edge. The viper is also a wharncliff. Should be easy to sharpen. I reprofiled mine and it currently whittles hair.

It should be extremely easy to sharpen. I've tried to reprofile it on a coarse whetstone (250 grit). It wont take a burr reasonably well. Tried setting the back bevel at 30 degrees inclusive and the edge at 40 inclusive. As soon as a burr is about to be raised, it just goes blunt on the next pass, like the edge is rolling.

Like I said, not new to sharpening, just trying to figure this particular blade out. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Zeta33]

stainless or carbon?

Carbon (1095)

 

[Bladenoobie1]

It should be extremely easy to sharpen. I've tried to reprofile it on a coarse whetstone (250 grit). It wont take a burr reasonably well. Tried setting the back bevel at 30 degrees inclusive and the edge at 40 inclusive. As soon as a burr is about to be raised, it just goes blunt on the next pass, like the edge is rolling.

Like I said, not new to sharpening, just trying to figure this particular blade out. Thanks for the advice.

Hmm..try lighter pressure and keep sharpening until you feel a burr. I don't really understand as soon as a burr is about to be raised it goes blunt. If no burr was raised at all of course it will stay blunt.

 

[Zeta33]

Hmm..try lighter pressure and keep sharpening until you feel a burr. I don't really understand as soon as a burr is about to be raised it goes blunt. If no burr was raised at all of course it will stay blunt.

After each pass on both sides I check the edge for a burr. It feels like I'm close to getting a burr but with the next pass all progress is lost. Best way I can explain it is "ok few more strokes and I'll have a burr ready" then after those strokes, nothing. I did successfully raise a burr and get the knife almost sharp enough to be useable but as soon as the strops came out it was useless again. That's the closest to sharp it's ever gotten. "Might cut paper" sharp, lol.

I've never experienced 1095 being unable to take a refined edge.

 

[Ryan Sumner]

Are you sharpening it by 'cutting' into the stone, or are you sharpening with the edge trailing? Swapping over tends to fix the issue for me, but I'm not sure about this situation.

 

[Zeta33]

Are you sharpening it by 'cutting' into the stone, or are you sharpening with the edge trailing? Swapping over tends to fix the issue for me, but I'm not sure about this situation.

Cutting into the stone not trailing. I'm about to give up on this thing for good pretty soon, it really seems like nothing is working

 

[GBPacker]

Dang, I'm about to pull the trigger on my first GEC's (as soon as I can make up my mind) and seeing threads like these worry me. I'm not at all familiar with sharpening and would hate to screw up a beautiful blade.

 

[Zeta33]

Dang, I'm about to pull the trigger on my first GEC's (as soon as I can make up my mind) and seeing threads like these worry me. I'm not at all familiar with sharpening and would hate to screw up a beautiful blade.

Don't be worried, GEC puts out awesome knives. I probably just got a bad one, or have been spoiled by better steels when it comes to sharpening. 1095 is great so I have no idea why mine is being such a pain....

 

[gunstockjack]

Sometimes a magnifying glass will reveal the problem with the edge. Some use a black marker and take a few strokes, then look at the edge with a magnifier and you can see where and at what angle you are removing metal. The wire edge that develops after a lot of stoning can be tough to remove, but keep stropping on leather with compound (white, pink or green) until it shaves hair or cuts paper cleanly.

 

[Fish30114]

I've got a viper and it sharpens easily. It sounds like your an experienced fella, and I'm guessing you got a lemon. Having said that in similar past experiences, I simply went way coarser than I had ever started before, spent a good bit of time on the coarse diamond plate, and then moved forward with good success. That would be my last ditch suggestion to you, except one other thing, if you have access to a belt machine with a leather belt, those things do wonders, when I have had knives that just wouldn't get to that hair POPPING level, I threw them on the leather belt and oila, hair POPPING.

Good luck--let us know how you come out.

 

[Zeta33]

I've got a viper and it sharpens easily. It sounds like your an experienced fella, and I'm guessing you got a lemon. Having said that in similar past experiences, I simply went way coarser than I had ever started before, spent a good bit of time on the coarse diamond plate, and then moved forward with good success. That would be my last ditch suggestion to you, except one other thing, if you have access to a belt machine with a leather belt, those things do wonders, when I have had knives that just wouldn't get to that hair POPPING level, I threw them on the leather belt and oila, hair POPPING.

Good luck--let us know how you come out.

Hair popping isn't even a question right now. This thing won't cut a fart much less a piece of paper. I spent nearly an HOUR just on the coarse stone making absolutely sure I was hitting the right angle. Did the sharpie test, sharpie came off the edge as desired. Doesn't matter what I do with this stupid thing, it won't get sharp. I'm to the point of madness really and just want my money back but, I am nearly 100% sure that isnt possible. I can't exactly return a knife I've been obsessively sharpening for 2 straight days.

I have never been so disappointed with a knife, in my entire life. Even if I do get it sharp, I know it's poorly heat treated, and why did I have to do all of this anyway? I paid money for a cutting utensil not a DIY knife kit. I appreciate the good luck, neighbor (I'm from Atlanta too).

For reference, this is the edge on my EDC. Hair popping doesn't quite describe how sharp this thing currently is, same tools and methods use to sharp the Viper...

 

[Bladenoobie1]

Maybe send it to a professional sharpener like Jason in my sig or richard j? Back in the early days of my freehand sharpening I would unknowingly sharpen at angles much more 40 degrees inclusive while it was my intention to hit less of that. I would constantly be sharpening a knife and wonder why it wasn't getting sharper and the reason was that the edge was too thick. Perhaps just try sharpening at a shallower angle? Also what kind of coarse stone are you using?

 

[Zeta33]

Maybe send it to a professional sharpener like Jason in my sig or richard j? Back in the early days of my freehand sharpening I would unknowingly sharpen at angles much more 40 degrees inclusive while it was my intention to hit less of that. I would constantly be sharpening a knife and wonder why it wasn't getting sharper and the reason was that the edge was too thick. Perhaps just try sharpening at a shallower angle? Also what kind of coarse stone are you using?

Although I appreciate your attempts to help out I'd like to state, again, I am NOT in my "early days" of free hand sharpening. I just posted a mirrored edge I got doing the same thing I'm doing with this knife. I have both a diamond coarse stone and an Arkansas hard stone (250 grit) and have tried them both. I am POSITIVE I am hitting the right angle. I didn't spend an hour on a coarse stone grinding it to death, I spent an hour making certain my angle was steady. I have gone shallow to the point of marking the face of the actual blade...Finally, I have tried a full sharpening starting out on both the diamond sharpener and also my Arkansas hard stone. Full meaning, all the way up to 2000 grit, no success, started over on the other coarse stone. I'd have gone further had it actually gotten sharp. I am out of ideas here...I am going to send it to a professional friend of my own if I need to but at this point, I don't even see the point.

 

[knifeswapper]

Something is just not hitting right. There is next to no chance that one knife in a 1095 sheet stamping and treatment batch is bad; and there is no other talk of similar problems. Take it to a friend that also knows how to get a good edge and leave it with him. Don't tell him the problems, don't tell him what you've done, just ask him to put a good medium angle edge on it and see what happens. If he has the same problem, send it to GEC with a note asking them what is going wrong.

 

[Zeta33]

Something is just not hitting right. There is next to no chance that one knife in a 1095 sheet stamping and treatment batch is bad; and there is no other talk of similar problems. Take it to a friend that also knows how to get a good edge and leave it with him. Don't tell him the problems, don't tell him what you've done, just ask him to put a good medium angle edge on it and see what happens. If he has the same problem, send it to GEC with a note asking them what is going wrong.

I will probably end up having to do that, because I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and none of the possibilities brought up yet are hitting the issue either. The guy I know uses a wicked edge so we'll see what the deal is. I ordered from you btw, excellent shipping and customer service from you guys! The knife is giving me trouble but I'm definitely happy with how fast you got it out, and the follow up on the order.

 

[The-Stig]

Sounds like you got a dud. I'd attempt to send it back and get a replacement. The manufacturer should be interested in finding out what went wrong, and also interested in keeping you as a customer. Do your best to make it right. Don't just give up on it.

 

[knarfeng]

I know you are upset, but let's watch the colorful expressions. Ladies are present.