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Gerber LMF II Blade Material (420HC or 12C27)

light battoning of softwoods like pine-by the time I get through a few 2 inch wide cuts, the edge looks like shark's teeth. Notching, digging in soft dirt, prepping a meal, just general light camping utilities-after the first night of a backpacking trip the edge is usually useless. Mine is an older model, I think I got it in mid 07, I was looking for a decent step up from the Ontario SERE knife. Unfortunately I just wasted my money. I used it for a good 3 or 4 months before I finally gave up on it for regular use. Get yourself a 10 dollar MORA, you'll get your lost money back in value. I use arkansas stones most of the time, with wet and dry for a final finish.
 
Dirt's rough on any edge. I'll try some battoning over the next couple days to see how mine holds up and I'll post the results in this thread.
 
Hello everyone, new member here.

My Knife affliction hit me about 6 months ago when I was given a Benchmade Barrage (my first proper knife at the late age of 25) for my birthday. Since then I've amassed a small collection. A Buck Vantage, SOG Flash II, Fallkniven NL5 Idun, and a Cold Steel Recon Scout is all that I've got so far. Nothing too special, my Idun is my baby.

I've lurked these boards as a guest for a few months now, but I decided to register because I had to share what I've been told about this 420HC steel. I called Buck about 2 months ago asking about their 420HC steel when telling them my Vantage was rubbing the liner when folding. Their customer service was great and I got my blade back in a week, perfect.

This is what they told me over the phone about the 420HC steel: They said that with a good heat treat, they could get the 420HC steel to a very similar performance level to AUS8/440C but it wasn't nearly as wearing on their machine tools. So they can make the same quality knife at a better price point due to the lower overhead. And from what I've seen I can't tell too big of a difference between my SOG Flash II and my Vantage. Both steels seem to be about the same with edge retention, sharpenability, etc. These are on folders, so I'm not batoning through wood anything. But for every day cutting tasks, they seem about the same. So from my perspective, it seems as though what Buck told me over the phone was about right.

As a first time poster, I hope this was helpful.
 
PayetteRucker said:
light battoning of softwoods like pine-by the time I get through a few 2 inch wide cuts, the edge looks like shark's teeth. Notching, digging in soft dirt, prepping a meal, just general light camping utilities-after the first night of a backpacking trip the edge is usually useless. Mine is an older model, I think I got it in mid 07, I was looking for a decent step up from the Ontario SERE knife. Unfortunately I just wasted my money. I used it for a good 3 or 4 months before I finally gave up on it for regular use. Get yourself a 10 dollar MORA, you'll get your lost money back in value. I use arkansas stones most of the time, with wet and dry for a final finish.
Click to expand...

My little test may not have been as harsh as your normal usage, but my knife and it's mystery steel blade performed pretty well. I posted the results and some pictures in this thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7668754#post7668754
 
Greenmachine said:
Hello everyone, new member here.

My Knife affliction hit me about 6 months ago when I was given a Benchmade Barrage (my first proper knife at the late age of 25) for my birthday. Since then I've amassed a small collection. A Buck Vantage, SOG Flash II, Fallkniven NL5 Idun, and a Cold Steel Recon Scout is all that I've got so far. Nothing too special, my Idun is my baby.

I've lurked these boards as a guest for a few months now, but I decided to register because I had to share what I've been told about this 420HC steel. I called Buck about 2 months ago asking about their 420HC steel when telling them my Vantage was rubbing the liner when folding. Their customer service was great and I got my blade back in a week, perfect.

This is what they told me over the phone about the 420HC steel: They said that with a good heat treat, they could get the 420HC steel to a very similar performance level to AUS8/440C but it wasn't nearly as wearing on their machine tools. So they can make the same quality knife at a better price point due to the lower overhead. And from what I've seen I can't tell too big of a difference between my SOG Flash II and my Vantage. Both steels seem to be about the same with edge retention, sharpenability, etc. These are on folders, so I'm not batoning through wood anything. But for every day cutting tasks, they seem about the same. So from my perspective, it seems as though what Buck told me over the phone was about right.

As a first time poster, I hope this was helpful.
Click to expand...

Welcome to Bladeforums. Buck does a real good job on its 420HC. I'm not sure the same can be said for all manufacturers though.
 
Yeah, since my last post, I've read that Buck does indeed make quite a good 420HC.

I really liked your review, cgmblade, of the LMFII.

I always thought that the blade shape, length, and handle on that knife made it look like a great all-purpose outdoor knife. I really like the look of it. Too bad it has such a stigma. If they made one without serrations, I would be very very tempted to buy one. Your brief review/test also made me rationally like the knife I already liked based on looks.

It's good to see that the recent iteration, at least, seems tough enough. Although for the price, the competition is using better steel.
 
Greenmachine said:
Yeah, since my last post, I've read that Buck does indeed make quite a good 420HC.

I really liked your review, cgmblade, of the LMFII.

I always thought that the blade shape, length, and handle on that knife made it look like a great all-purpose outdoor knife. I really like the look of it. Too bad it has such a stigma. If they made one without serrations, I would be very very tempted to buy one. Your brief review/test also made me rationally like the knife I already liked based on looks.

It's good to see that the recent iteration, at least, seems tough enough. Although for the price, the competition is using better steel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, even after that test I still can't really recommend the knife. There's nothing wrong with it, but there are better options available.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Again, I'll post my personal experience with the LMF. It's a sore subject with me. I'm extremely partial to the design of this knife, it fits my hand extremely well, is well balanced and a superb overall design for bushcraft and E&E use. It is very hefty and tough, it's got just the right amount of steel in all the right places. However I have yet to see a 2 dollar keychain knife with steel as poor as what I saw on my LMF. The edge chipped, cracked, rolled and dulled if you looked at it the wrong way. I gave up on trying to sharpen the damn thing, it was too much work between weekend camping trips and I was removing an eighth of an inch from the edge every time just to get it down to a useable edge again. God help the tip, which disappeared the first time I pulled it out of its sheath. The steel is just a joke. A 80 dollar joke, that's on Gerber. If this knife were made from a decent high carbon or tough stainless steel it would be one of my alltime favorites and it would probably be on my hip now as we speak. Don't waste your money, get a real knife.
Click to expand...

I really don't like Gerber. Not even there multitools. I will never buy another Gerber product. Lots of other better blade makers out there IMO
 
Greenmachine said:
Hello everyone, new member here.
...
...

This is what they told me over the phone about the 420HC steel: They said that with a good heat treat, they could get the 420HC steel to a very similar performance level to AUS8/440C

As a first time poster, I hope this was helpful.
Click to expand...

A bit of an exaggeration. Buck 420HC is the best 420HC on the planet. But it is not equal in performance to AUS8, nor to 440C.

A more correct comment would be that, because of their proprietary heat treat COMBINED with Buck's blade profile (not just edge angle) a Buck 420HC blade has been known perform on a par with blades from other manufacturers made of AUS8 or 440C.

It's a blasphemy to some, but blade geometry is actually more important than the blade alloy. Buck has their blade geometry down pat.

Welcome to BladeForums!

Back on topic, 440A or 420HC can be an adequate alloy for a large knife if heat treated properly. But we don't know how well Gerber does theirs as they don't post hardnesses.
 
knarfeng,

Thanks for the info re: blade geometry.

No doubt the customer service rep was talking up their own product a bit.

It's a shame because it's as though Gerber has the capacity and designers to make some quality stuff, but their pocketbooks get the better of them. Cool designs and ideas, crappy execution.
 
Last edited:
Greenmachine said:
knarfeng,

Thanks for the info re: blade geometry.

No doubt the customer service rep was talking up their own product a bit.

It's a shame because it's as though Gerber has the capacity and designers to make some quality stuff, but their pocketbooks get the better of them. Cool designs and ideas, crappy execution.
Click to expand...

Buck and Gerber. The difference between a family owned company and a multinational corporation.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Mine is an older model, I think I got it in mid 07, I was looking for a decent step up from the Ontario SERE knife.
Click to expand...

According to an earlier post, your knife is 440A then. I have a gerber folder with 440A and its useless. Its a tanto blade, so it still pierces well, but its edge retention is a joke. I am not hard on the thing either.


I have a unique situation here as I described in my earlier post. I got a 2006 LMF II as a Christmas present. Based on the gerber email response previously referenced, this is the 12C27 Steel. I actually ordered another one of these knives to compare and keep whichever was better, as the one I got as a gift had issues with the edge profile. It was too shallow near the serrations. To my surprise when I got the new knife I ordered, it was completed different packaging and said high carbon steel. This is a 2008 model. This prompted me to research the change in steel on this knife and lead me here.

I was debating which one to keep, so I went out and bought a diamond stone sharpening kit. I sharpened both knives, and the 12C27 took more work and effort to get a razor sharp edge. I take this as a good sign. I was able to correct the edge profile issue and I will be returning the 420HC version.

I haven't put this knife to hard use yet, but I am confident in it. I wanted this knife to keep in my car. I always like to have good fixed blade with me, especially when I travel. I liked the idea of the glass breaking butt cap in case a situation ever arose where I needed to break a window to exit my vehicle. Bottom line is that every review I have read seems to have nothing but good things to say about this knife. The only negative things I have really seen come from this thread, and it seems to be with the 440A version which isn't a surprise. All the reviews of the 12C27 version have been good, and even more recent reviews of the 420HC version praise this knife.


I honestly consider this knife my "beater". I don't have many knives at all, but my SOG seal pup elite will still be my primary fixed blade for now. I will use this gerber when I need it though.
 
I have had two. The 12C27 was better by far, in my opinion, than the 420HC. Also note that Gerber not only changed the steel, but also the sheath configuration as well. The current sheath is a much cheaper set up than the first.
 
On another note. If you want a similar survival knife to the liking of the LMF II then you might want to try the Ontario Pilots A.S.E.K. Survival Knife.
 
I also really like the feel in hand, but was afraid of Gerber and their who knows what it really is steels. I had no idea they actually made a 440a version at one point and charged what they do for this knife. Only Gerber...

If I could find one that was definitely 12c27 I would probably pick it up, but how nice of them to not stamp the damn things so there's no way to easily tell :mad:
 
TheGent said:
I have had two. The 12C27 was better by far, in my opinion, than the 420HC. Also note that Gerber not only changed the steel, but also the sheath configuration as well. The current sheath is a much cheaper set up than the first.
Click to expand...

both the 2006 and 2008 ones I currently possess have identical sheaths.
 
DarkKnight369 said:
both the 2006 and 2008 ones I currently possess have identical sheaths.
Click to expand...

Correct and they should. Both of yours should have the belt loop bolted to the plastic frame of the scabbard and a separate velcro molle attachment for the scabbard. The early sheath nylon as well was extra woven for durability. The new sheath will look like this:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/gerber lmf ii sheath/RoushGTR/Tools/GerberLMF3-1.jpg

See how the sheath is all one piece now and is obviously now lower quality.
 
I think that is how the sheath looks except it has 2 button straps to hold the knife handle at top.


Yeah, the back of both sheaths does not look like that. Is that the ASEK version, or pre-2006 version? Unless the one knife I had was not a 2006 model. The copyright date was 2006 on it and the packaging was very different from that of the 2008.
 
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