Gerber LMF II Blade Material (420HC or 12C27)

The prodigy peaks my interest if I can find it cheap enough. I dig the silver trident as well, but that is it. I have higher interest in many other knives first.

I have the Prodigy and it is one of my favorite small to medium knives. Makes an excellent dive tool but for everything else, limited. If they had a non-serrated version I would use it alot more. In fact, would enjoy using it!

I can envision two versions. The current "Military" oriented model and more of a general purpose knife with a comparable general purpose sheath.

Oh well, one can only dream :cool:
 
Sent gerber a question to clarify, and this is what I got.....



Anybody remember if their box ever actually said 12C27?


EDIT:
Got another response....



So basically, I could have received a 420HC knife in an older box. I was wondering/worried about that. I still think that it was harder to sharpen/reprofile than the 420HC was. Could be all in my head, but I swear it took much more time and effort.

My box didn't have any mention of steel type.

So, I have 420HC? That's still a lot better than 440A. At this point it doesn't really matter. My knife holds a good edge and hasn't chipped or rolled.

I went back and read your earlier post. Do you have one or two LMF's now? Are you positive of the steel of either of them? Does the knife(s) you have now perform acceptably?
 
Sent gerber a question to clarify, and this is what I got.....



Anybody remember if their box ever actually said 12C27?


EDIT:
Got another response....



So basically, I could have received a 420HC knife in an older box. I was wondering/worried about that. I still think that it was harder to sharpen/reprofile than the 420HC was. Could be all in my head, but I swear it took much more time and effort.

Cant remember if my box said 12c27....i dont think it did, but im not sure.
 
My box didn't have any mention of steel type.

So, I have 420HC? That's still a lot better than 440A. At this point it doesn't really matter. My knife holds a good edge and hasn't chipped or rolled.

I went back and read your earlier post. Do you have one or two LMF's now? Are you positive of the steel of either of them? Does the knife(s) you have now perform acceptably?

Yeah...my box just says stainless steel. I don't necessarily buy into it though. How often have you seen a gerber that actually lists what steel type it is on the packaging?

I returned the "newer" one. I bought itto compare since the edge of the first one had a poor edge profile. I picked up a smith's diamond stone set and reprofiled it. Sharpening both knives I once had led me to belie e the one was 12C27 because of the extra effort it took to reprofile and sharpen.
 
My box didn't have any mention of steel type.

So, I have 420HC? That's still a lot better than 440A. At this point it doesn't really matter. My knife holds a good edge and hasn't chipped or rolled.

I went back and read your earlier post. Do you have one or two LMF's now? Are you positive of the steel of either of them? Does the knife(s) you have now perform acceptably?

Why do you think 420HC is better than 440A? Especially if you do not know the hardness of either?
 
Perhaps I was wrong, but I was under the impression that 420HC was harder than 440A.

Depends on who heat treats it.

Buck takes 420HC to a 58-59. But I see 420HC hardness specs from other knife makers that say they only run it at 55-56. And a lack of specs from other companies so you don't know how hard it is.

At the same time Phil Gibbs, who used to work at Camillus, says that Camillus used to run their 440A blades at 58. Other companies say 56-57. Others don't say.

Unless you know what hardness they are heat treated to, I'm not sure that there is an inherent difference in the performance of the two alloys. Mind you I don't have side, by side comparison data. I just am unsure that there is a performance difference.
 
Gerber can 'print' on a knife...

My first Gerber was a non-descript nylon-like handled lockback whose eventual claim-to-fame would be it's size permitting inclusion in a B.O.T. ('Bug Out Tin'... aka 'What can I stuff in an Altoids tin?'). A Vic SAK fits there now. My second Gerber should have made a true Gerber-ite out of me - what a bargain!

I liked the Freeman - neat idea. Sadly, they were from the 'other side of the Pacific rim' - AUS steel. Cabela's has a US-made S30V in leather... then, Gerber introduced the stag handled US-made S30V Freeman - which I promptly found on evil-bay for <$100 delivered - a bargain. Printed - not imprinted - just forward of the stag handle - 'USA S30V'. So - they can list the metal. They can also make a great edge - still shaves after some use. Next came the LMFII... even if I didn't pay for mine, it is still not a great reason to buy another Gerber. Yeah, I'd be more open minded about it - as a $60-ish knife - without the serrations - or the MOLLE sheath. Even a simple belt style nylon sheath would be an improvement - for me. YMMV.

IMG_3698.jpg


Sorry if the mighty ten shot .22 rimfire offends you, but this is my only current picture with the stag/S30V Freeman in it.

Stainz
 
To clarify, here is a screenshot of the exact info Gerber sent to me...including the hardness for both the 12C27 and 420HC.


Screenshot2010-01-06at84049AM.png
 
Wow, that reply from gerber ought to be stickied.

The stickied thread should be called "Gerber Mystery Steel: Solved"

56-60 is quite a variance for steel hardness. It's my understanding that 56 is rather mediocre-poor edge holding whereas 60 is typically above average-good. Is this right? I'm still a newb in the knife world.

I have saved your post, Darknight369 to my 'puter for future reference :thumbup:

If that is okay with you.

This thread has really turned into a great little expose on peoples' perception of Gerber, Gerber's Steel, their packaging and what to look out for. I'm very happy because after my machete purchase (went condor) I was looking into Gerber for my next knife (eyeballing prodigy or LMFII).
 
Save away. I emailed Gerber at noon yesterday and they got back to me by the end of the work day. I felt that they had that response saved somewhat and perhaps they get similar questions often. Either way, it was way more info than I was expecting.

I am still really confused as to what steel I have. I mean, for all I know, I could have a 420HC model stuffed in an older box. Which if that is the case, maybe the hardness was higher on the one I kept, than the other I took back, because I still swear it took much more effort to reprofile the blade. But what gets me is that the supposedly the 12C27 and 440A were marked as such. The newer packaging says high carbon stainless steel....my box just says stainless steel. What the hell would I have then if the box matches the knife? Oh well.


All and all, its not that big of a deal. The reason I wanted this knife was to keep in the glove box of my vehicle. I liked the butt cap in case I ever needed to break my window to escape my truck. The reviews also made it sound like a great wilderness knife, so I figured it would come in handy if I ever got stranded some where. I pretty much intend this to be a "just in case" knife, but will use it for things here and there. I just get OCD about little details and thought they were all 12C27. I had no idea there were other steel versions until I did some research.


And don't worry, I am a noob in the knife world as well. I used to just carry cheap pocket knifes with me, and that was it. Then I flew somewhere and forgot I had the knife in my pocket so I had to give it up to TSA. Missing a knife in my pocket I decided to get a "good" one, which led me to buy a gerber torch II. Well that started it for me, because then I bought a Sog Seal Pup elite because I decided I needed a good fixed blade. Then I bought a SOG trident folder because I decided I needed a better one. Now I have the LMF II and a long list of fixed blades and folders that I want. I am hooked.
 
It's amazing to me that Gerber would do such a great job being forthcoming with information, but then not be willing to stamp their knives. I would really like to have a brand new one of each steel and see if I could tell the difference just by working the edge a little with a soft stone. Sort of like a Pepsi taste test of steels lol. I'd like to think I could tell the difference, but who knows.
 
Wow, that reply from gerber ought to be stickied.

The stickied thread should be called "Gerber Mystery Steel: Solved"

56-60 is quite a variance for steel hardness. It's my understanding that 56 is rather mediocre-poor edge holding whereas 60 is typically above average-good. Is this right? I'm still a newb in the knife world.

I have saved your post, Darknight369 to my 'puter for future reference :thumbup:

If that is okay with you.

This thread has really turned into a great little expose on peoples' perception of Gerber, Gerber's Steel, their packaging and what to look out for. I'm very happy because after my machete purchase (went condor) I was looking into Gerber for my next knife (eyeballing prodigy or LMFII).

The accuracy of the Rockwell test is ±1, so it is common to see a spec with a range of three units such as 55-57. A single number spec such as 56 means that they are stating the midpoint of that range. A range of 5 units in a hardness spec is unusually loose. A blade at 60HRC will significantly outperform the edge holding ability of a blade made from the same alloy hardened to a 56.

Darkknight, thanks for sharing the information from Gerber.
 
I bought the LMF II ASEK a few weeks ago. The sheath/nylon carrier setup is like sgmblades, but 1) it's brown as is the knife handle and two, the rubberlike sheath's clasp and builtin sharpener are black. They aren't separate pieces just look like different colored plastic was used for these parts of the sheath.

Anyhoo, I tried doing sgmblade's tests with my knife.

It chopped and batoned into kindling a 2x4 piece of seasoned longleaf pine just fine, and the edge seemed perhaps a little duller than before but not much. But certainly no rounded edges or dings or divots.

The thing I don't like is this: I have a devil of a time getting a really sharp edge on it. In fact, I can't. Almost three quarters of an hour of sharpening and I had an edge arguably worse than the factory one.

I tried a diamond plate, my water stones, and even stropping with diamond paste. Made it sharp but nothing close enough to shave hair off my arm with. Finally I gave up and ran the dang thing through the built in sharpener. Half a dozen passes and it was sharper than the best I could do. Which again is sharp but not super sharp.

Stainless steels. Hate em. Why did I even bother? Shoulda known better. I'm way more into woodworking than knives but my chisels, plane irons and, once just the the heck of it, even my cheezy hollow plastic handled Fiskars hatchet -- I can get em all scary sharp in 5 minutes on my water stones and strop -- sharp enough to where it is folly to 'test' the edge with a finger. Unless one likes to bleed.

Not so with my LMF ASEK.

What kinda burns is knowing about that hatchet. It's this one. Nothing fancy but it can take as keen an edge as I hoped a knife costing 70 bucks would.

The LMF II ASEK is ok. But for the money I want a knife I can get sharp, my kind of sharp, and I don't want to spend 40 minutes working to get only a decent edge.

Or just go with a Fiskars hatchet and carry a (non-stainless) pocket knife for the little stuff.
 
Dullard

That is my experience exactly. I cannot get a sharp edge on the thing. I use a Lansky because it fits pretty well on that fine part of the edge. I just cannot get the darned thing sharp. I raise a burr, I look under a magnifyer (I do that) and it looks good. But it doesn't get sharp.

I really want to like this knife but I am dissapointed. I have had it for maybe 3 years...probably got it April of '07. I have the old style sheath.

QB
 
hey there just to check, i just ordered a gerber prodigy and the box is marked 12C27 and its current stock, so is there a chance it may not be so, or will it be what it says it is!! im aware this thread is about the LMF's blade content but im guessing the prodigy would be made with exact materials!!
cheers
 
got my prodigy today and the box is marked with a orange label stating the blade is made from Sandvik 12C27, so maybe they have switched back or i just got some old stock which i am very happy bout!! great knife also, the edge came very sharp, and im very happy!!!!
 
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