Gerber LMF II Blade Material (420HC or 12C27)

I recently posted a little test/review of the LMF 2 here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=703284

As I've stated in the above thread and elsewhere, my biggest gripe w/ the knife is that I don't know what steel it is made of.

Can you tell by looking at the below pictures whether my sheath is the old or new one and from that is there any way to tell what the blade is made of?

Gerber_LMF2_a5.jpg


Gerber_LMF2_a1.jpg


Gerber_LMF2_a3.jpg


Gerber_LMF2_a2.jpg


This is the label that was on the box.

Gerber_LMF2_a4.jpg


Thanks for your help.
 
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TheGent said:
I remember both the ASEK and the regular version in 2006 coming with a seperate MOLLE attachment for the scabbard and the riveted belt loop with exposed snap closures.

Like this: http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=319506&stc=1&d=1240989023
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Maybe so...the copyright date on my box said 2006 though. I doubt they would go through 2007 very long without updating that date.

Can you tell by looking at the below pictures whether my sheath is the old or new one and from that is there any way to tell what the blade is made of?
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Check the date on the box. I have the same box and sheath and mine says 2006, which would mean its 12C27. If mine were 440A, which is the only other option at that point, it should have been easier to sharpen than 420HC where it was more difficult....leading me to the assumption that its the better steal.
 
My box says 2006. So I'm still confused. When all the confusion arose about what blade steel was being used Gerber said they would put something in the box to say what it was made of. Since mine didn't have any notice in the box and since the box says 2006 am I safe to assume my knife is 12C27?

Of course TheGent says he has the same sheath for his 420HC blade.

Sorry for the bad quality picture.

Gerber_LMF2_a6.jpg
 
Now I'm confused. Maybe Gerber uses whatever is lying around. Extra boxes, sheaths, whatever. I give up. Lol!! :confused::confused::confused:
 
The online vendor where I bought my knife last spring still has the same picture and ad copy.

I assume this is the old style sheath.

GB-1626.jpg


The illustrated Gerber Knife was designed in collaboration with expert military instructor Frank Heyl and Jeff Freeman. The Foliage Green Infantry Version of the Gerber LMF II Knife features a 4.84" part serrated drop point fixed blade made of Sandvik 12C27 stainless steel. The blade of the Gerber LMF II Knife has a non reflective black finish. The glass filled nylon handle of this Gerber knife has a Foliage Green TPV overmold, a metal butt cap that is suitable for use as a hammer or glass punch, and lashing/lanyard holes for spear conversion option. This Gerber knife comes with a Foliage Green low profile composite belt sheath with integral sharpener. The Gerber LMF II Knife has an overall length of 10.59", and weighs 11.4 ounces.

Editors Note: Gerber is changing the sheath configuration on the LMF II knives. The product insert in the box will probably be incorrect as to the sheath configuration and its use. Please do not order this item if this is a problem.
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It sounds like TheGent is correct and Gerber just used whatever they happened to have at the moment.
 
cgmblade said:
My box says 2006. So I'm still confused. When all the confusion arose about what blade steel was being used Gerber said they would put something in the box to say what it was made of. Since mine didn't have any notice in the box and since the box says 2006 am I safe to assume my knife is 12C27?

Of course TheGent says he has the same sheath for his 420HC blade.

Sorry for the bad quality picture.

Gerber_LMF2_a6.jpg
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about the sheath. It's mos likely 12C27. Otherwise it would be 440A and I doubt you would be giving it such praises if it was.

The "old" sheath design was probably original from when the knife was initialy developed. I think this knife has been on sale since 04-05. Just because someone bought it in 06 doesn't necessarily mean it was made they year. Just like I got a brand new 2006 model as a Christmas gift.

I have the same box, with the same sheath, and the same date. It was a bit h to sharpen and reprofile compared to the 420HC version I had(just sent back). So all signs are pointing to this being the 12C27 model.

PS. You can't always trust online seller specs. Dick's sporting goods has this knife listed as 12C27 even though they sell the 420hc model. They even have it listed as being made in China, despite USA printed on the blade and packaging.
 
I'm just going to assume that it is 12C27 until I get credible evidence or proof to the contrary. Thanks for the comments guys.
 
This thread is like a New Year's turd in a punchbowl for me. I bought my LMFII in Feb.'08 which implies that it's the 440A version, unless it's old stock. It does have the original style sheath though. I tried to skin a hog I shot with it when I first got it (I know, not it's intended use) and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't hold an edge. It was only $60 at the time, so I guess I got what I paid for.
 
Planetcat said:
This thread is like a New Year's turd in a punchbowl for me. I bought my LMFII in Feb.'08 which implies that it's the 440A version, unless it's old stock. It does have the original style sheath though. I tried to skin a hog I shot with it when I first got it (I know, not it's intended use) and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't hold an edge. It was only $60 at the time, so I guess I got what I paid for.
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I bought mine more than a year after you and based upon what's been posted above I'm calling it 12C27. I wonder if the seller I got mine from just had some old stock?
 
Yeah, it's confusing. I have the original LMF II box and paperwork and it doesn't say squat about the steel used in the blade, date of manufacture, etc. I've been using Gerber's in the field since I was a kid, but have to admit that since they merged with Fiskars and become this mega-corp, they've lost some appeal. I do like my Silver Trident in 154CM though.
 
Gents, I'd be careful about assuming that the knife box date defines the alloy used in the steel.

You never know how many rolls of labels they bought at a time and how long a roll of labels lasted. Unless the blade itself is marked or the knife itself is different, determining the steel by the packaging or by the sheath is an iffy proposition.

If it were I, I would figure out if the knife met my needs. If it does, it's a good'un. Cool.
If not, go find a knife (Gerber or other) that does.

Historically, Gerber has seldom been forthcoming with exactly what steel they used in their blades. I don't remember them ever advertising the Rockwell hardness of their blades. Gerber was famous for years for advertising that they used "surgical stainless steel".
 
I've shown this before. Below, top down, is the KaBar, LMFII, RAT RC-5, and the Buck 650 Nighthawk.

IMG_3518.jpg


I have used those knives a bit more since the picture, although the RAT RC-5 shows it the least. An older USN version of the KaBar, without the secondary bevel, was my camping knife for years. It still is a decent performer. The next one - an LMFII my son gave me for Pappy's Day a few years back - is not something I would normally buy, as I don't like serrated blades. It has the newer sheath - and seemed the easiest to dull. It came a bit rougher ground, too. The RC-5 is a dream - a .25" thick heavy duty knife of carbon steel (Like the KaBar!) - but twice the price of the others. The Buck 650 Nighthak is comfortable to use - the edge comes sharp - and stays that way. Their 420HC is really good and the hollowground slices finely better than the others.

The RC-5 would be my first choice - the Nighthawk is a close second with the KaBar nearly tied - that LMFII is a distant last place, the serrations being a waste of knife edge space, IMHO.

Stainz
 
Thats' another thing that frustrates me about Gerber. They can manufacture the less expensive "Big Rock" with or without serrations but when it comes to the LMF or Prodigy, you have one choice - serrations.

I suppose thats one of the drawbacks to the larger slower moving companies. They can't respond to the end-user like a smaller company like RAT CUTLERY or Bark River.

Gerber needs a custom shop like BUCK has. Order an LMF II without serrations and in the steel of choice. Sheath it in a Spec-Ops sheath and you have a great package.
 
knarfeng said:
Gents, I'd be careful about assuming that the knife box date defines the alloy used in the steel.

You never know how many rolls of labels they bought at a time and how long a roll of labels lasted. Unless the blade itself is marked or the knife itself is different, determining the steel by the packaging or by the sheath is an iffy proposition.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree with you, but there are other factors to consider here. Gerber changed the packaging no later than sometime in 2008. I know this because the 420HC model I got in the mail was in plastic packaging just like their pocket knives and the copyright date was 2008. If its the same box with different dates that is one thing, but completely different packaging is another. I was in Dick's Sporting Goods yesterday and all the LMF's they had on the shelf were in plastic packaging with 2008 dates.

This could mean a few things...it could mean stores have old stock still or they use the packaging until its gone before changing the date. Regardless, they didn't change the steel in the knife until 2008, which is also clearly the year they changed the packaging. I find it highly unlikely the original box packaging was still used into a part of 2008.
 
Well, whatever mystery steel my knife is made of it seems to be working pretty well. I won't complain anymore, but I also don't plan on buying any more Gerbers in the foreseeable future.
 
The prodigy peaks my interest if I can find it cheap enough. I dig the silver trident as well, but that is it. I have higher interest in many other knives first.
 
Sent gerber a question to clarify, and this is what I got.....

If your box does not state 12C27, it is most likely the US 420HC.
Click to expand...

Anybody remember if their box ever actually said 12C27?


EDIT:
Got another response....

The 440A, only about 300 were made and the boxes were clearly identified as US 440A. It’s possible that an older box was used for the 2008 products I suppose.
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So basically, I could have received a 420HC knife in an older box. I was wondering/worried about that. I still think that it was harder to sharpen/reprofile than the 420HC was. Could be all in my head, but I swear it took much more time and effort.
 
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