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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Getting impatient...
- Thread starter Grapevine
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That is exactly one of the reasons I buy Jason's knives-he is a smart businessman!
He knows that if he brings fairly priced, exquisite knives to a show that they will sell well before the show ends-without him having to offer a 20-30% discount to a purveyor at 10:00 AM on Friday. This also one reason his knives are hot in the aftermarket and dealers usually place orders for his knives at shows since they know that is the only realistic way to get his stuff. It creates a brisk aftermarket for the product and also builds up que of orders that he can deliver to dealers after the event.
He obviously has enough faith in his knives to have patience and not jump on every dealer's bandwagon that comes along.
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Wow, this has been good dialog. Thanks for keeping it civil.
Just another thought.... What if you found out at the show what dealers now owned which knives--by either leaving them on the table, or by reference. Here's where the knifemaker needs to go to bat for YOU. He has a contingency that allows for the dealer to sell to customers at this show in anticipation of the interest. One could keep the pricing within a set standard.
Approach said dealer and find out their asking price. Considering the costs involved with time associated in photographing these knives and listing them on the websites, then a better-than-normal deal *should* be expected. And maybe the maker/dealer relationship will have sorted this out in anticipation of these queries.
Knifemaker is guaranteed a sale, and continues his needed and good relationship with dealer. Collector pays a slight price premium, but is at least guaranteed of walking away with the maker's work. Dealer makes a small profit for the up-front investment, and is allowed to earn his living also.
Nahh, can't work. It makes too much sense.....
Coop
Just another thought.... What if you found out at the show what dealers now owned which knives--by either leaving them on the table, or by reference. Here's where the knifemaker needs to go to bat for YOU. He has a contingency that allows for the dealer to sell to customers at this show in anticipation of the interest. One could keep the pricing within a set standard.
Approach said dealer and find out their asking price. Considering the costs involved with time associated in photographing these knives and listing them on the websites, then a better-than-normal deal *should* be expected. And maybe the maker/dealer relationship will have sorted this out in anticipation of these queries.
Knifemaker is guaranteed a sale, and continues his needed and good relationship with dealer. Collector pays a slight price premium, but is at least guaranteed of walking away with the maker's work. Dealer makes a small profit for the up-front investment, and is allowed to earn his living also.
Nahh, can't work. It makes too much sense.....
Coop
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Coop,
I know of at least one maker, who pre-sold/delivered to some dealers. The dealers offer the knives at the makers retail price. The dealers left the knives on the makers table, where the maker sold them for the dealer.
While he the maker could have made more money by doing it himself, he was taking care of his dealers while he still had knives on his table for sale.
JR
I know of at least one maker, who pre-sold/delivered to some dealers. The dealers offer the knives at the makers retail price. The dealers left the knives on the makers table, where the maker sold them for the dealer.
While he the maker could have made more money by doing it himself, he was taking care of his dealers while he still had knives on his table for sale.
JR
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Terry, that was a very interesting story. It is indeed a fact that you can't please all the people all the time. You shouldn't even try. All a person can do is what they feel is right. That is all that can be expected of anyone. In the end it is the makers that have to live with the consequences of what they decide to do. At one end you might piss of a dealer and ruin a chance to ever work with them in the future. At the other end you stand the chance of alienating potential customers. What a maker needs to do is find that zone somewhere in the middle that is workable for everyone involved. I don't envy you guys the tightrope that you must sometimes have to walk.
Coop, I find that with the group of guys that hang around this forum that even when differences of opinion get a little heated, things remain civil. That idea of yours has merit. It just might work.
Jeremy, I think that maker and those dealers put together a great plan of action. One that works for everyone involved. The advantage for the maker is that he is guarantied to sell all of the knives that the dealers buy and he gets to keep these knives on his table to show to the buying public. Even if they don't sell at the show they will go home with the dealers. The dealers win by having the possibilty of having some or all of these knives sold before the show is over. They won't have to spend the time or incur the cost of photgraphing these knives and posting them on their website. The attendees win by getting to see, handle and possibly purchase these knives at the show. These are also the points that make Coop's idea so appealing. The only possible negative is that the knives could be damaged during the show, but as long as this is understood and not a sticking point with the dealers then this seems to me to be a very good scenario for everyone involved.
Coop, I find that with the group of guys that hang around this forum that even when differences of opinion get a little heated, things remain civil. That idea of yours has merit. It just might work.
Jeremy, I think that maker and those dealers put together a great plan of action. One that works for everyone involved. The advantage for the maker is that he is guarantied to sell all of the knives that the dealers buy and he gets to keep these knives on his table to show to the buying public. Even if they don't sell at the show they will go home with the dealers. The dealers win by having the possibilty of having some or all of these knives sold before the show is over. They won't have to spend the time or incur the cost of photgraphing these knives and posting them on their website. The attendees win by getting to see, handle and possibly purchase these knives at the show. These are also the points that make Coop's idea so appealing. The only possible negative is that the knives could be damaged during the show, but as long as this is understood and not a sticking point with the dealers then this seems to me to be a very good scenario for everyone involved.
I'd just like to say I don't care for people much. So when I go to a show I'm going to try my hardest to preorder the knives I want. Screwing the other people is just a bonis in my opinion. 
Alot of good points in this thread. But, for me the makers can sell or not sell to whom ever they want to at whatever time they want to. It's their knives after all.
Alot of good points in this thread. But, for me the makers can sell or not sell to whom ever they want to at whatever time they want to. It's their knives after all.
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Jeremy,
Perhaps I misunderstood your last post, but if I read it correctly, that maker/dealer relationship makes NO sense to me.
So a dealer comes by and says he wants knife X on Thursday. It's a $600 knife, and he cuts 30% so the maker will get $400. Then, the maker leaves it on his own table where he sells it FOR the DEALER ?!?!?! So the dealer makes $200 for doing nothing but saying he wants knife X on Thursday?
No way.
That's not the maker taking care of the dealer. That's the dealer taking advantage of the maker.
I also wanted to come in and add that I'm not in any way saying ANY maker should or shouldn't pre-sell. I was just giving some thoughts on my own personal approach.
Thanks,
Nick
Perhaps I misunderstood your last post, but if I read it correctly, that maker/dealer relationship makes NO sense to me.
So a dealer comes by and says he wants knife X on Thursday. It's a $600 knife, and he cuts 30% so the maker will get $400. Then, the maker leaves it on his own table where he sells it FOR the DEALER ?!?!?! So the dealer makes $200 for doing nothing but saying he wants knife X on Thursday?
No way.
That's not the maker taking care of the dealer. That's the dealer taking advantage of the maker.
I also wanted to come in and add that I'm not in any way saying ANY maker should or shouldn't pre-sell. I was just giving some thoughts on my own personal approach.
Thanks,
Nick
fasteddie
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Terry, thanks for the story and perspective from the other side of the table. Next show, I have to stop by and shake your hand. Or maybe I shouldn't. I'm confused.
Seriously, Any time I've bought a knife from a maker at a show, particularly if it was early in the show or before the doors opened, I've offered to let him keep the knife on the table, to generate orders, have something to show, etc. Most times they haven't taken me up on it.
Me, I think I'm going back to the old fashioned, traditional way of acquiring knives... Internet sales.
Seriously, Any time I've bought a knife from a maker at a show, particularly if it was early in the show or before the doors opened, I've offered to let him keep the knife on the table, to generate orders, have something to show, etc. Most times they haven't taken me up on it.
Me, I think I'm going back to the old fashioned, traditional way of acquiring knives... Internet sales.
Les Robertson
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Hi Terry,
So you mean there is actualy a dealer who will wait till the end of the show and then buy a knife if it is still there? WOW.
I saw in the Poll thread that same dealer will leave the knives he purchased on the makers table so collectors can handle the knives and the maker can take orders. Again WOW.
Terry, as Roger P pointed out you are one of these "in demand makers". With that in mind, it is my understanding that this same dealer sells your knives for your price? No premium, no jacked up prices? Is this true?
RWS, this is why I was asking for specific names before. You were generalizing and lumping everyone into one category. As it would appear that Keith and Terry know of at least one dealer who does try to work with the collectors and the makers to make it fair for everyone.
So you mean there is actualy a dealer who will wait till the end of the show and then buy a knife if it is still there? WOW.
I saw in the Poll thread that same dealer will leave the knives he purchased on the makers table so collectors can handle the knives and the maker can take orders. Again WOW.
Terry, as Roger P pointed out you are one of these "in demand makers". With that in mind, it is my understanding that this same dealer sells your knives for your price? No premium, no jacked up prices? Is this true?
RWS, this is why I was asking for specific names before. You were generalizing and lumping everyone into one category. As it would appear that Keith and Terry know of at least one dealer who does try to work with the collectors and the makers to make it fair for everyone.
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Jeremy Reynolds said:
JR,
And you accused me of being "totally unreasonable"?
If I was the maker and the dealer bought my knives at a discount at a show I was attending??, and then asked me, the maker, to sell them for him at my table (the makers table??), I'd have to be restrained and taken away in a straight jacket!
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Hi WWG,WoodWorkGhost said:
I understand the desire to single out dealers and makers so as not to lump everyone in the same category. However, using the terms "dealer" and "maker" is more than sufficient in this type of discussion, IMO, because nobody here feels that this pre-selling/buying practice is between bad people, IMO.
To reference this discussion to particular individuals would seem inappropriate to me. We're dealing with what I consider a bad practice in the industry, not bad people practicing it.
You are correct, that the generalized nature of these terms may appear to lump all individuals of this group into the same category.
I hope we all realize that this practice is common and has been OK for years. Some people pre-sell and some people don't. Neither group are made up of bad people.
If others here are more comfortable with naming specific dealers and makers here then they may.
I won't eventhough I could.
edited grammar.
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RWS,
So the dealer pre-orders knives, and the maker delivers them at a show. In this situation, the maker offered to leave them on his table. That way, customers could have knives to handle and knives to buy.
Also, as WWG pointed out, some dealers will leave knives on a makers table just for customers to handle, if the maker is sold out. I know Larry at BladeArt left one on Mike Obenaufs table for showing off, as it was a new model for Mike and the only one he had completed.
I don't see how that is an such a bad deal? The maker delivers to his dealers. Maybe the maker wants knives on the table to show/sell, but everything is sold out? This gets knives into the hands of the customers.
JR
So the dealer pre-orders knives, and the maker delivers them at a show. In this situation, the maker offered to leave them on his table. That way, customers could have knives to handle and knives to buy.
Also, as WWG pointed out, some dealers will leave knives on a makers table just for customers to handle, if the maker is sold out. I know Larry at BladeArt left one on Mike Obenaufs table for showing off, as it was a new model for Mike and the only one he had completed.
I don't see how that is an such a bad deal? The maker delivers to his dealers. Maybe the maker wants knives on the table to show/sell, but everything is sold out? This gets knives into the hands of the customers.
JR
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fasteddie,
Yes, by all means come up and shake my hand. By the way, the rest of the show that I was talking about went very well. There were lots of happy faces, lots of hand shaking, and lots of good conversation. I sold out quickly. It was just those first few moments of the show where I was standing there in my little Primos Knives shirt thinking, "What am I doing here"?
WoodWorkGhost,
I don't know how much business talk is allowed around here, but yes, the dealer we're speaking of sells for the same price that I do, and he never tries to snatch knives up at the start of a show. I guess I shouldn't have mentioned him by name earlier. I didn't even think about it possibly being taboo. I'm still learning.
#####
Keith mentioned that when we talk about the expense that a maker has when doing a show we seem to overlook the fact that many attendees have just as high or higher costs. I hope that my mention of the cost did not ruffle any feathers or make me look like I was whining.
When I was working in corporate America, making money hand over fist, and just part-timing the bladesmithing gig, it was no real burden to cut out for a week or so. I was getting a paid vacation. I imagine that this is the case with the majority of patrons at the shows as well. I've heard that most full-timers are retired with a full pension, or at least they used to be.
With plants shutting down left and right these days, I know several full-timers who are in the same boat as me. The money from knife sales IS the income. Anyway, the cost of the tables, motels, gas, and food, coupled with the fact that production (and hence income) is completely stopped for several days, stings pretty good. Sure, knife sales at the show pay for the trip, but I still lose five days production for a three day show.
Again, I'm not whining. I'm just showing what's going on for many of us from a slightly different perspective. I personally am as happy as I've ever been in my life. I told my wife in my second year full-time that the only way I'd go back into corporate America would be if they offered me 2.5 million dollars a year. Even then, I'd work for only one year, and then quit, and build myself a REAL shop.
Yes, by all means come up and shake my hand. By the way, the rest of the show that I was talking about went very well. There were lots of happy faces, lots of hand shaking, and lots of good conversation. I sold out quickly. It was just those first few moments of the show where I was standing there in my little Primos Knives shirt thinking, "What am I doing here"?
WoodWorkGhost,
I don't know how much business talk is allowed around here, but yes, the dealer we're speaking of sells for the same price that I do, and he never tries to snatch knives up at the start of a show. I guess I shouldn't have mentioned him by name earlier. I didn't even think about it possibly being taboo. I'm still learning.
#####
Keith mentioned that when we talk about the expense that a maker has when doing a show we seem to overlook the fact that many attendees have just as high or higher costs. I hope that my mention of the cost did not ruffle any feathers or make me look like I was whining.
When I was working in corporate America, making money hand over fist, and just part-timing the bladesmithing gig, it was no real burden to cut out for a week or so. I was getting a paid vacation. I imagine that this is the case with the majority of patrons at the shows as well. I've heard that most full-timers are retired with a full pension, or at least they used to be.
With plants shutting down left and right these days, I know several full-timers who are in the same boat as me. The money from knife sales IS the income. Anyway, the cost of the tables, motels, gas, and food, coupled with the fact that production (and hence income) is completely stopped for several days, stings pretty good. Sure, knife sales at the show pay for the trip, but I still lose five days production for a three day show.
Again, I'm not whining. I'm just showing what's going on for many of us from a slightly different perspective. I personally am as happy as I've ever been in my life. I told my wife in my second year full-time that the only way I'd go back into corporate America would be if they offered me 2.5 million dollars a year. Even then, I'd work for only one year, and then quit, and build myself a REAL shop.
Coop's idea is fantastic!!
Coop, you should spin it off into its own thread so that perhaps dealers and makers browsing this forum can see it more easily and maybe, just maybe, start to put it into practice. It's getting buried somewhat in the heat of this thread.
Coop, you should spin it off into its own thread so that perhaps dealers and makers browsing this forum can see it more easily and maybe, just maybe, start to put it into practice. It's getting buried somewhat in the heat of this thread.
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Hi Primos,primos said:
Les has personally let his knife show business practice be known in the last thread about this topic before he was banned from BF.
Les also supports a lot of the shows by actually getting a table , based on what he said in that thread, which is real nice.
Edited to add:
Hey primos, I don't think I have said this before but you make some of the nicest looking knives I've ever seen!
Les Robertson
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Hi Joss,
Do you know this for a fact? Or you just trying to cause problems? I don't think you should comment on the business practices of any one unless you know for a fact.
Do you know this for a fact? Or you just trying to cause problems? I don't think you should comment on the business practices of any one unless you know for a fact.
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RWS said:JR,
And you accused me of being "totally unreasonable"?
If I was the maker and the dealer bought my knives at a discount at a show I was attending??, and then asked me, the maker, to sell them for him at my table (the makers table??), I'd have to be restrained and taken away in a straight jacket!
If that is really the case then I would agree, but I think that it is probably something that has been worked out between the maker and the dealers and it is not being done just because the dealers asked. It is not totally one sided, although the only advantage for the maker is that he gets to keep the knives on his table so that he can show more of his work to those that stop to take a look. The disadvantage for the dealers is that the knives that they have purchased that are not sold by the end of the show stand a chance of being damaged.
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Hey Keith,
I get what your saying, and like you said, getting to actually see some of the knives at the show would be terrific.
In this example, why couldn't the dealer get his own table in support of the show and bring other inventory as well to share and sell at the shows, though?
I know I'm creating some "what ifs" here.
Really more of a rhetorical question on my part.
Edited to add:
Like you said, this had to be part of the mutually agreed upon arrangement between the dealer and maker.
I get what your saying, and like you said, getting to actually see some of the knives at the show would be terrific.
In this example, why couldn't the dealer get his own table in support of the show and bring other inventory as well to share and sell at the shows, though?
I know I'm creating some "what ifs" here.
Really more of a rhetorical question on my part.
Edited to add:
Like you said, this had to be part of the mutually agreed upon arrangement between the dealer and maker.