good old boys, Shiva Ki, & justice for all

It is obvious that I am one of the people that G.R. refers to as a "principle player". I will admit that I have been hard on Shiva Ki, but I still feel that it was/is warranted.

One of the points that G.R. has raised is that we have attacked Shiva Ki without his being able to defend himself because he was banned, and he feels this is unjust. I feel this is moot. Shiva Ki has always been able to come back here and defend himself. It has been his decision not to do so. The fact that he was banned means nothing if he is able to come back whenever he wants. Maybe it is the fact that he has to follow the rules of the forum and show decorum while here that are the reasons for his not returning. Maybe it is because he feels he will just be attacked more. The reasons are not important, what is important is that he is fully capable of coming here and defending himself and setting the record straight.

Through his messengers, Shiva Ki has, as far as he is concerned, set the record straight on what happened here in the past. He has stated that he apologized to the only person that he feels he really insulted and that all other insults were inadvertent. He has stated that he was banned for discussing his knives and for trying to make contact with someone he made a knife for. As far as I am concerned, he is wrong on all counts.

If Shiva Ki comes here and truely sets the record straight from his end, I will be happy to bury the hatchet. If he wants to continue to live in his own version of reality, then I will continue to post the same things I have in the past when someone asks about Mr. Ki.
 
OleyFermo said:
Most people, even close friends, do not realize that I am Chinese, in part because I look and act like a big drunken Irishman. The fact that both my parents are Occidental is merely accidental. I state these facts so that you will allow me to correct the spelling of the martial art you practice without taking offense.

The correct spelling is: Weng Tip Shu.

If you are an adept at Weng Tip Shu, you definitely have a foot in the door of the deadly arts, but it is only the third step up the forty-four rung ladder leading to the totally devastating art of Brick Fu.

I am accepting students. Call me. I have openings for students. I am taking students. All of the above is politically correct. Call me.

Fat Lo Fikes;)
Click to expand...


Honorable ChewFat Fikes, I will be there Thursday to paint your fence and wash and wax your truck.
Thank you for taking me in...I don't eat much.

Gord0 will be back.
Couger, put me in for a blue chip.

They always come back.;)
 
Honorable Ebb'nFlowTide,

Cougar give you blue chip, you welcome my place any time. No need paint truck or wax fence, too. This just movie stuff with teach crane kick to skinny kid and other such mess. Best thing learn right now, limb whacking.

Go here: http://www.fototime.com/users/OleyFermo@aol.com/Cutting

Scroll down bottom. See fat drunk Irishman I keep in shop to test blade. Blade dull as him wit, no matter. Plenty weight behind swing. You eat plenty at Chew Lo Fat Fikes Dojo and shop. You eat lot and lift anvil many time day. Gain weight. Learn cut plenty good.

Later Lo Fat post pics of cutting sword down in edge of big industrial metal drum, almost one third way.

Next thing learn, make this face.:grumpy:

http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid={3F131C61-974D-457D-B1A6-F948F3E15FC6}&AlbumId={6AC96034-909C-4294-8C86-57F0EAFEBAE4}&GroupId={8826E734-988E-4988-BDB5-14AF139FBC5F}

You learn make this face, learn cut like drunk Irishman, then no need fear dragon that can fly. Chopem in two, one chop.

Remember. Cougar keep both ear to ground. Old Lo Fat keep both ear to woman inner thigh. You must choose your path, grasshopper.;)

Wish Gordon and Master Ki well whether come back, or not come back.

Remember, man stand on mountainside long time with mouth open before roast duck fly in.

Still look student. Call me. Female student only, now. Call me. Have dozen place for female student.

Chew Low Fikes:D
 
Jimmy, you are as thoroughly entertaining as any poster who's stuff I've read on this forum. You have a real talent for writing.
 
Mr.Fikes,
Your posts are funny as hell.:thumbup: :D

Mr.Begg will not be back.
Nor will Shiva Ki.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Jimmy, you are as thoroughly entertaining as any poster who's stuff I've read on this forum. You have a real talent for writing.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Keith

Other than having a penchant for foolishness, I was hoping to draw a little fire from Gordon, or even Shiva, himself. I wouldn't at all have minded being thumped on (at least verbally) by both these men if there was even a slim chance of getting them to join in on a discourse about knives. I'd really like to hear about how Gordon has used his Ki blades and how well they stood up. Same with Shiva. And I don't mean just hearing that 'these are great blades'. I like detail. Loved the shots of Shiva cutting the rope on his website... and that's why I posted links to me putting some of my blades through their paces. I realize that there's a forum for such discussion, but once started here, the discussion could be taken to the appropriate place.

I haven't contributed much of a serious nature in this thread, because at the best of times I'm not the sharpest tack in the box. I read the original Shiva Ki posts, and, at least to my mind, he was in clear violation of the rules and was banned. And I say, "So what?" He's no longer banned. Water under the bridge, over the dam and way around the bend. Come on back in. If Shiva is anything like me, there are very good reasons to be here other than selling knives. I'm here to learn about knives... how they're made, how they're used, what's expected of a good blade. It's not that I don't, after all these years at the forge, have my own methods of working or expectations of what I make. I just don't want to have a well-digger's view of the sky. I quite frankly think that there's a lot Shiva could learn here even if he never makes another post.

From what I've read from Gordon and Old Man and others, Shiva Ki has a number of excellent qualities as a human being, and as a knifemaker who makes blades that work. His website is a combination of valuable visual information to me as a 'knife-tester', but comical in other respects. Shiva, though, is selling to a different market than many of the makers here... so what appears comical to me is just their cup of tea. What I personally think about Shiva's website won't affect his sales one iota one way or the other. There's one thing for sure, though. If someone sticks his neck out by posting on the internet, he needs to be ready to deal with the flak, as well as the praise. It's quite understandable that his supporters would come to his defense, but the manner in which they did so was non-productive at best, at least from my (admittedly skewed) viewpoint. And in any case, I think Shiva has the intellect to have dealt with whatever he needed to deal with here on the forum without any help from anyone.

I can certainly empathize with Shiva on his having any sort of personality disorder(s). I've been dealing with my own mental illness for almost forty years now, and not always successfully. I could go down a very long list of ways in which my mind simply does not function, but to what point? I am who I am and each person will take me as they see fit. I'm as much a recluse as anyone could be who isn't an anchorite. I'd never leave my yard if I had a choice in the matter. I don't answer the phone and seldom return phone calls. I'm the world's worst at not delivering orders on time... if ever. And, despite my best efforts, I get worse over time rather than better. None of this prevents me from posting on the forum because, nuts or not, I realize that I'm responsible for my actions, and for what I say or write... and so I've made a number of new friends here.

I'm still very much interested in Shiva's work, although I think Leatherbird is probably right about Shiva not making any more posts here. That's too bad for me from my perspective as a knifemaker who values a sharp, tough blade... but I can live with it. Being interested in Shiva's work, I've come up with a couple of workarounds to find out if my knives cut as well as his, whether or not he cares to post. I don't look at this as some sort of 'contest' in the sense of 'my knife's BIGGER than his knife'. I look at it as Shiva having a rep for making sharp blades. I think my own are as sharp as his... and as tough... and that they will hold as edge as long. But I'd like to know for sure, because if they don't, I'm missing the boat somehow.

I'll see to it that in the next few months, one of our fellow forumites will have a knife of mine and one of Shiva's to test... similar size, weight, etc... and hopefully he'll post the results on the knife testing and review forum. If my blade is not up to snuff, I can stand the heat, and will shake a leg to try to improve what I do. If Shiva's work gets outdone, maybe we WILL hear from him. I'd like to hear from him either way.

Sorry for the ramble, folks.

Jimmy
 
leatherbird said:
Mr.Fikes,
Your posts are funny as hell.:thumbup: :D

Mr.Begg will not be back.
Nor will Shiva Ki.
Click to expand...

Smile and laugh make better chi for cutting than mouth down at corners. Maybe you do old Lo Fat favor and email pics of your Ki knives. Or maybe post here since other might also like see. Yes. Lo Fat think so.:thumbup:

Write more later, maybe, but for now have two young chippie waiting help old Lo Fat do morning Tai Chi exercise. Can see on page 2,116 of Warrior pocket edition of Kama Sutra, publish on vellum last year by Little Brown. Any energy left, then need work on small knife already three week late.

You come dojo, too. Teach more just cutting. Many chippie also dojo groupies. Help you turn pages in KS for proper exercise. In day learn cut. Night learn THRUST. MUST always keep lower back limber, flexible and power. Chippies very much value for these technique.

By way. Lo Fat poke fun all people, even self. No mean spirit by do it. Okay poke fun back at Lo Fat if don't mind stick jab in eye.;)

Won Hung Lo Fikes:D
 
Jimmy,
I would be VERY interested to see the results of this test. I'm tempted to take a paperback book out, and get my sharpening tools ready, and give it a try. I expect I'll find out exactly what you mention, that it ain't easy. In your video do you go into any detail on how you get your knives so sharp?

Thanks for posting!
 
I too think that BladeForums would have been a great place for Shiva Ki, except that he thought of it as a place to promote the selling of his knives and nothing more. Maybe as time went on he would have become involved in passing on what he has learned and possibly learned ways to make his knives even better. I'm not sure the master thinks this is possible though.

A large part of what makes BladeForums a great site are the makers that are willing pass on their knowledge in an effort to help others. Shiva Ki would have been a wonderful addition to the knowledge pool if he so wished.
 
Broos said:
Jimmy,
I would be VERY interested to see the results of this test. I'm tempted to take a paperback book out, and get my sharpening tools ready, and give it a try. I expect I'll find out exactly what you mention, that it ain't easy. In your video do you go into any detail on how you get your knives so sharp?

Thanks for posting!
Click to expand...

Hi, Broos

My method for sharpening is just about as simple as anything can be. I sharpen with a 1200 grit diamond hone, used freehand, running the hone up and down the length of the blade (alternating sides) until I feel a wire form on the edge. I then either buff the wire off using white diamond compound on a spiral sewn cotton wheel, or strop it off on leather that has a touch of white diamond compound rubbed on it. Stropping works as well as buffing, but is of course a bit slower. When I'm honing the edge, I do not try to hold a particular angle with the stone... just as long as the angle is not too obtuse. I have convex edges on all my blades, even the ones that appear 'chisel' ground at first glance... and I hone with the intention of keeping the edge conves. Unless the edge geometry is correct, no matter how sharp you get the blade, the book most likely will not be cut.

On the old video, I do demo sharpening. I drive a blade through a steel barrel a number of times, then through a concrete block with a hammer... neither of which is a big deal. I resharpen the blade as described above. To remove all nicks and flat spots on the blade so that it's shaving sharp again, both honing and stropping probably take three or four minutes. It would normally take less, but being 'on stage' makes me a bit nervous. A friend / customer of mine frequently gets me to sharpen his knives he's bought. He owns every brand of sharpening device known to man and couldn't sharpen a blade with any of them well enough to cut a finger. I'm not saying they don't work... they do. I'm merely saying my buddy couldn't use one worth flip. One day I literally forced him to try to sharpen his knife with the hone and strop. He was terrified! I was laughing my arse off because he was being so tentative about the sharpening. He finally got into it, what with all my yelling and carping at him. Got the wire... was tickled. Stropped the blade until it would shave... was even more tickled. He simply could not believe how easy it was until he'd done it. Now all the gadgets have been sold on Ebay, IIRC.

Something which should be obvious, but isn't, is that when cutting a book, you're only cutting one page at a time. With correct edge geometry there's nothing to it. My business partner at the time, Barbara Boatner, could cut a book a easily as I could. If the geometry is wrong, even if the edge is hair popping sharp, the pages just get pushed one down into the next with no cut. It can be done, though... and in fact I know several of my friends who have done it.

Give it a whirl. It's all a fun learning process.:)

The real trick is to find the right steel, give it the proper heat treat. Grind the blade so that it's both strong and functional. And THEN find the right edge geometry... one which will, for example, slice the print off a newspaper without cutting all the way through the paper AND stand up to cutting through a bundle of dried bamboo without chipping or rolling. Here's a link that shows something similar. In this, Don Fogg cuts a rolled up cig paper with a short sword, but he also cut the print off a newspaper with the same blade. Follow the links to the 'cutting tests'. This blade was final sharpened using the method above. I had to be damned careful not to scratch Don's polish job on the blade... which had taken days for him to do. That sharpening job had a high 'pucker factor'... and I'm not talking about lips puckering. :D

http://www.dfoggknives.com/Cloud Cutter.htm

Jimmy
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I too think that BladeForums would have been a great place for Shiva Ki, except that I he thought of it as a place to promote the selling of his knives and nothing more. Maybe as time went on he would have become involved in passing on what he has learned and possibly learned ways to make his knives even better. I'm not sure the master thinks this is possible though.

A large part of what makes BladeForums a great site are the makers that are willing pass on their knowledge in an effort to help others. Shiva Ki would have been a wonderful addition to the knowledge pool if he so wished.
Click to expand...

Keith,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. The part that strikes me as odd is that I don't really believe he was having any problem selling his work since quite a few people have mentioned owning more than one of his blades on this thread, IIRC. Leatherbird would be a good example. As some have said, he even gives his blades away, no charge, in those cases where he thinks it's appropriate to do so. My guess is that Shiva lives fairly simply, and he's said himself that he doesn't need the money from knife sales. I believe him... and that's what makes the 'I have knives for sale. Call me' so strange.

Anyway... what I wish for is a good life and sharp edges for all, Shiva included.

Jimmy
 
Damn, that Cloud Cutter is one of the coolest blades I have ever seen. Period. Wow.

Roger
 
As you all know, I am card-carrying member of the "Ki-KoolAid Brigade" (I think someone said that?) and LeatherBird has one of my old Shiva blades. I have stayed out of this discussion because I was involved in one of the "originals" and it didn't go well at all. I was the one who posted--at Shiva's request--the message that was insulting to John Fitch. I wish I hadn't done it as I had a Fitch bowie and it was a beauty in all respects and I would never think of insulting Big John. Hopefully people knew I was printing Shiva's words--not my own--but it was a bad call to do it in any case. All this aside, I would LOVE to see someone do some cutting with one of Shiva's blades and a blade by someone like Mr. Fikes. I don't pretend to know a damn thing about knifemaking but I sure do like to watch and learn from those who do--like SK and Mr. Fikes. I heard a rumor that perhaps Kohai999 is going to be putting a Ki blade through some cutting--don't know if that's true or not--but I am interested to know what other people--besides those of us already under the influence of the KoolAid--think! The 3 blades I had from Shiva were--without a doubt--the sharpest I have ever owned BUT, there's only about 10 thousand OTHER knives by other makers and mastersmiths--that I have NOT cut with, so my perspective is by no way "complete." Since I recently lost my job of the last 19 years, there's no steel coming my way anytime soon. I hope that some of you folks will post some reviews (and photos?) so I may live vicariously through your adventures. At least till I get back on my feet! Sorry for the ramble. Best Regards--Jim Falor SEMPER FI
 
RogerP said:
Damn, that Cloud Cutter is one of the coolest blades I have ever seen. Period. Wow.

Roger
Click to expand...

Thanks, Roger. :D Don always liked that design for a utilitarian blade that I was making back in the the early to middle 90's that I called the 'jungle honey'. I swore I'd never make another one until Don told me he would like to do a collaboration on one. I forged it, ground it. Don clayed it. I hardened it, rolled the edge and sharpened it. We both tested it. I wrapped the handle. Don did his usual immaculate polish job on the blade, made a shipping case and display stand for it... and I put on a final edge. This blade is one of two similar designs, the primary difference being the curve of the handle. On the other style blade (which I prefer for sheer cutting ability) the handle line follows the curve of the blade instead of being recurved... the recurved handle may be a bit better shape for thrusting. We did one more with my favorite style handle. It's at

http://www.dfoggknives.com/DragonFly.htm

I'm taking up way too much space here and think I'll shut my mouth for a while.

Jimmy
 
Thanks, Jimmy! I appreciate it. I'll echo RogerP's sentiments on the cloud cutter, as well - WOW.
Bruce
 
James,

I too would be interested in seeing the results of cutting tests with Shiva's knives. This is a knife discussion forum, after all. It's always informative and intersting to see knives in use and get empirical feedback on performance. That sort of discussion of Shiva's knives, Jimmy's knives or anybody's knives will always have a place here. It's just the concentrated b.., um, nonsense, that I could really do without. As I understand, the new ICCT (I may have the acronym wrong) cutting competitions will have a category for competitors using other people's knives. Perhaps someone will enter with one of Shiva's knives and put it through its paces. That would be cool.

Jimmy, are you still making the jungle honey or a variation on that theme?

Roger
 
Jimmy, you brought a thread out of the trash can and managed to give it class along the journey, against the wishes of the recently able to participate embattlers. Your expressions of mental disfunctionality must be the only attribute of self exaggeration bordering outside of the truth.

Your talents are revealed far beyond that for which you are famous.

Frank H. in Oregon
 
James Falor said:
I heard a rumor that perhaps Kohai999 is going to be putting a Ki blade through some cutting--don't know if that's true or not--but I am interested to know what other people--besides those of us already under the influence of the KoolAid--think!
Click to expand...

Sorry, you lost your job, James. I do hope that you will find a better/equally satisfying job in short time.

The rumor is true. Upon getting the Small Spirit I ordered, I will put it up against a Jerome Anders Bird's Beak fighter of similar dimensions, and a 1095 TOPS. The tests will be green bamboo, 2" x 4" chop, ping pong stabs, and Coke can cuts, along with the dreaded cigarette paper from a paper clip slice.

I have competed in 3 cutting competitions and know how they are run. I have no personal agenda in any one knife outworking the other. I am putting up, so I know what the tools do in my hands, and it will be fun, and educational.

Obviously the results will be posted on BladeForums, my choice is in Customs, because that is my home. I saw Jerome today at the Las Vegas show, and informed him of the upcoming event. He seemed really enthusiastic!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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