Got my first CRK Sebenza yesterday. The Emperor's new knife.

A Sebenza is an easy buy for me in the future, I like motorcyles and automatic watches too, much more expensive hobbies. For me to drop $400 on a knife feels like nothing, since $400 will get you a decent Seiko in the watch world. I currently have a Benchmade mini-grip, full size grip, Spyderco Native, and Kershaw Leek, and I'm going to make a Sebenza my next knife. Not that $400 isn't a lot of money to me, just my other hobbies have changed my perspective a bit.
 
k_ozdragon said:
You're way too sensitive if you feel people discussing something is insulting you. I sell knives for a living and stand by everything I said. I'm sure someone who spends $12k on a Prada purse will tell you it was worth it too. Never said they're a bad knife, just over priced. Also, yes I see the tolerance differences, and its not worth the inflated cost.
Click to expand...

Three words...... IN YOUR OPINION




In mine, they are worth exactly what they cost. And I don't buy 12 thousand dollar purses either:rolleyes:


I appreciate your input, but I respectfully disagree with just about everything you've said about CRK. Just because you "own a knife shop", doesn't mean you're an expert on knives. There are plenty of extremely knowledgeable knife guys out there that would say that sebenzas are in fact UNDERPRICED.
 
I just got back from a week long trip and read this whole thing from start to finish.

First, let me say that if I could go back, I might have worded my original post a little more delicately. I apologize to anyone who feels like they were ridiculed for buying or loving this knife. Like I said in the original post, it is clearly a really good knife. After reading through all of this thread, I certainly understand why so may people love these knives.

I read these forums pretty religiously and even though the looks of the knife never did it for me, there are so many posts calling it a 'grail' and holding it out as the knife to which all others should be compared, I was compelled to buy one (By the way, there are ZERO decent knife stores near me in the Boston area, so I couldn't check one out prior to buying). SO I got one and was disappointed. Maybe I should have bought a decorated one - the simplicity of the 21 appealed to me and I like to use my knives so I went with the unadorned...

My post was mainly to counter all of the super favorable posts and to tell people like me that 'if you don't think you're gonna like it, save your money. I carried this knife for a few days - there was no 'ah-ha' moment for me. I don't like the shape, the look, the feel in my hand. It doesn't open more smoothly than most of my good knives.' I am under the impression that forums like these are for the exchange of ideas and information. I wanted to share what I believe is useful information.

I certainly have more respect for the knife after reading all of this. I love the idea that it can be taken apart and put back together so easily. I love the idea that it is made extremely well in the USA. I love that it will retain much of its value if I should choose to sell it. It's cool that it was at one point the innovator.

I didn't start this thread to troll. I also never claimed to be an expert. I'll most likely keep the knife in my collection because it belongs there. Unfortunately, it's just not a fun knife for me. I'll never reach for it as a daily carry or to sit and play with. The unbelievable tolerances don't seem to matter much to me but I respect that they do for others. I care about things like that in my car, my home, my business...but when it comes to knives I like a little more fun and function and innovation.

So, like I should have said originally; if you are on the fence about buying one of these knives, try to hold one in your hand before buying it.
 
SmedleyButler said:
I just got back from a week long trip and read this whole thing from start to finish.

First, let me say that if I could go back, I might have worded my original post a little more delicately. I apologize to anyone who feels like they were ridiculed for buying or loving this knife. Like I said in the original post, it is clearly a really good knife. After reading through all of this thread, I certainly understand why so may people love these knives.

I read these forums pretty religiously and even though the looks of the knife never did it for me, there are so many posts calling it a 'grail' and holding it out as the knife to which all others should be compared, I was compelled to buy one (By the way, there are ZERO decent knife stores near me in the Boston area, so I couldn't check one out prior to buying). SO I got one and was disappointed. Maybe I should have bought a decorated one - the simplicity of the 21 appealed to me and I like to use my knives so I went with the unadorned...

My post was mainly to counter all of the super favorable posts and to tell people like me that 'if you don't think you're gonna like it, save your money. I carried this knife for a few days - there was no 'ah-ha' moment for me. I don't like the shape, the look, the feel in my hand. It doesn't open more smoothly than most of my good knives.' I am under the impression that forums like these are for the exchange of ideas and information. I wanted to share what I believe is useful information.

I certainly have more respect for the knife after reading all of this. I love the idea that it can be taken apart and put back together so easily. I love the idea that it is made extremely well in the USA. I love that it will retain much of its value if I should choose to sell it. It's cool that it was at one point the innovator.

I didn't start this thread to troll. I also never claimed to be an expert. I'll most likely keep the knife in my collection because it belongs there. Unfortunately, it's just not a fun knife for me. I'll never reach for it as a daily carry or to sit and play with. The unbelievable tolerances don't seem to matter much to me but I respect that they do for others. I care about things like that in my car, my home, my business...but when it comes to knives I like a little more fun and function and innovation.

So, like I should have said originally; if you are on the fence about buying one of these knives, try to hold one in your hand before buying it.
Click to expand...

Excellent follow-up. Thanks for the clarification. :thumbup:

I'll add that as a result of this thread, and you're initial comments, I went and purchased a used, large Sebenza 21 with micarta inlays just to be able to form my own qualified opinion. So far, I really like the 21, so much in fact that I just purchased its smaller sibling to compare and contrast against my usual EDC; a titanium, ZDP-189 Leek. It's nice to live in a society that allows us to have, make, and discuss choices.
 
Great comments, Smedley. I readily admit to being a CRK fanboy and this thread has only made me more of one. However, I understand your perspective and I hope your Sebenza grows on you if you decide to start using it. I predict that would happen if you can overcome your initial disappointment.
 
k_ozdragon said:
I work at a knife shop, and I agree. Sebenzas have a ridiculous amount of over sensationalism. Is it a good knife? Absolutely; but is it the knife directly descended from gods? Hardly. They're also overpriced. $500 for a basic model, or $700 if you want a piece of carnelian in it, seriously? They are not hand made, they are made on a CNC machine then hand assembled. I put together Benchmades and Spydercos all day and can tell you they assemble just fine and can be just as smooth with fine tuning. Will the blade be as centered - not exactly - but does that deserve an extra $400? What do you think...
Click to expand...

You work at a knife shop and don't know the correct pricing of the basic? :rolleyes:
 
Krissig12 said:
Three words...... IN YOUR OPINION




In mine, they are worth exactly what they cost. And I don't buy 12 thousand dollar purses either:rolleyes:


I appreciate your input, but I respectfully disagree with just about everything you've said about CRK. Just because you "own a knife shop", doesn't mean you're an expert on knives. There are plenty of extremely knowledgeable knife guys out there that would say that sebenzas are in fact UNDERPRICED.
Click to expand...
It is my opinion seeing how this is a forum. Post u refer to was me talking to someone else who said I was "insulting him" with my opinion. Again, calm down everyone, I said its a great knife, just over priced. The fact I work at a shop means I get to handle many knives - along with many other very expensive knives as well. Plus I know many collectors and get to see private stuff many people dont get to see. All I can say is that the cost of his stuff is about $100 too much. Its not a lot, but it keeps many people from owning one. I can see him charging that if they were indeed "handmade" but their not. Their CNC just like any other production knife. Again, just to calm everyone down, well made knife. And honestly, me saying its a well made knife is still my opinion cuz I know people who dont even like them.
 
$300 for the small sebenza is middle pricing depending on what you want. $500 for the large one. Just sold a large one with one stone in it for $700 just cuz it was discontinued for a mere year; and guess what, guy was stoked to buy it. I'm going to end up buying one btw, just not happy with the price. Prob will buy just buy the new titanium Benchmade, its made just as well lol (kicking the beehive again)
 
k_ozdragon said:
It is my opinion seeing how this is a forum. Post u refer to was me talking to someone else who said I was "insulting him" with my opinion. Again, calm down everyone, I said its a great knife, just over priced. The fact I work at a shop means I get to handle many knives - along with many other very expensive knives as well. Plus I know many collectors and get to see private stuff many people dont get to see. All I can say is that the cost of his stuff is about $100 too much. Its not a lot, but it keeps many people from owning one. I can see him charging that if they were indeed "handmade" but their not. Their CNC just like any other production knife. Again, just to calm everyone down, well made knife. And honestly, me saying its a well made knife is still my opinion cuz I know people who dont even like them.
Click to expand...

While I don't personally care for the Sebenza myself, it's clear that from a basic economics standpoint, the knives are not about $100 too much at this time. The market is bearing his asking price very well.
 
Same answer we got from Spyderco when we asked them why the police model is so much more than the basic endura. They told us "cuz we can charge that much and people still buy it." Idk about you, but I think that's bs. Anyways, that's a whole other topic. Now I'm going to get a bunch of people quoting me and saying how happy they are to pay that, and good for Chris Reeves for making extra and etc etc... I suppose as long as people are happy to pay more. I'm no better though. I'm still a knife guy through and through, so I'm sure I'll eventually own one eventually. Hopefully I'll just trade for it lol
 
k_ozdragon said:
Same answer we got from Spyderco when we asked them why the police model is so much more than the basic endura. They told us "cuz we can charge that much and people still buy it." Idk about you, but I think that's bs. Anyways, that's a whole other topic. Now I'm going to get a bunch of people quoting me and saying how happy they are to pay that, and good for Chris Reeves for making extra and etc etc... I suppose as long as people are happy to pay more. I'm no better though. I'm still a knife guy through and through, so I'm sure I'll eventually own one eventually. Hopefully I'll just trade for it lol
Click to expand...

I completely understand your feelings on it being B.S. but in all honesty, it's the best answer. That's just how economics works. If a cheap made in China Schrade knife with 440A or mystery steel sold really well for $150 dollars and the market kept bearing it, that would be what the knife was worth (as insane as that example is).

Conversely, let's look at highly valued and rare knives like Scagel. Because I don't personally care for those I've seen (although I am sure they are fantastic knives) they wouldn't be worth much to me. If you needed cash quickly and I was the only guy around, the market value for your rare knives has just plummeted, BUT, given the market, it is still "what they're worth."
 
Well its like the Prada purse example I used. Charging that much is what keeps them on the high end of the market and leads to the type of overhype you see with stuff like this. Lowering the price and making it a knife for the masses just makes it plain and ordinary. I'm sure I'm gonna get an earful for that statement, but its true. Yes its a well made knife, but face it, you aren't paying normal mark-up, you're paying a premium for it. Try ordering a knock off from China - and before you start I know its cheaper in China for a variety of reasons - but for $87 you can get a damn good copy with very similar tolerances. Its because CNC machining today is sophisticated and inexpensive. Oh and before I get all beat up for comparing CRK to a China copy, I have a print out FROM CRK warning people against buying from non authorized dealers due to the copies being so well made that its difficult to tell the difference between the fake and one of his. Of course the fake is garbage steel, but the f&f you all crave is very close; and close enough to fool so many people that CRK had to notify its consumers and even retailers.
If it sounds like I'm bashing the sebenza, I'm not. Just pointing out that the cost is, in fact, inflated. I'm sure you're all very happy with the knife cuz its a great knife, its just overpriced. If you're on the fence for buying one, I'd ask: Do you collect? If you dont, buy a Benchmade or Spyderco. They will serve you well and the price is right. If you collect and love knives, definitely ontt count this knife out, but also dont buy it sight-unseen because you might be in for a shock. Also, if you dont believe in paying more than something is actually worth, I'd say look into something else or look for a used CRK in good condition (after all, they are very hard to damage). I believe that was the original point of this post. That's an honest opinion from someone who works with all brands and types of knives 8hr a day, 40 a week. Maybe that doesn't make me an expert, but I'd say it helps ;)
 
Last edited:
This has been a good read for me. I've thought about getting a Sebenza for a while, but held back because of the price. After reading both the pros and cons in this thread, I went ahead and ordered one. Not sure I can add anything much to the discussion that hasn't been said already, but here goes anyway: A knife is for cutting, we know that. A $400. knife isn't going to cut 10X better than a $40. knife. A $400. watch isn't going to tell time better than a $40. one (I like that analogy). So why buy the $400. item? Well, here's are my reasons for purchasing the large plain Sebenza 21 versus one more of the other brands of knives I own:

1) I really like the simplified look. I'm somewhat of a minimalist (except in quantity of knives:)) so it it really appeals to me. It's a work of art in my opinion.

2) I work in a scientific environment and really appreciate precision and accuracy. The high tolerances of the machined parts of the Sebenza speak to me, whether I will be able to feel the difference in every day use or not.

3) I'm an engineer at heart. And let's face it, it's well engineered.

4) Proudly made in USA by a legend in the knifemaking industry. I'd be lying if this didn't add to the appeal. I'm not one of those diehard buy only USA products type of person. Not at all. But if I have a choice to buy a really well made product engineered and produced in the US, hell yeah!

5) I don't have a frame lock in my collection, yet. CRK invented it and from what I've read does it very well.

6) You can attribute the reputation to whatever you want--hype, sensationalism, fanboy, etc.But, I've been around the block enough to know the difference between those things and a product that has a stellar reputation because it is deserved. I believe (based on what I've read both pro and con) that this is the case with Sebenzas.

7) Resale! I have little to lose.

The argument that there are other knives that fulfill one or more of the above at much lower price point is valid, but I have many of those other knives, and really enjoy them, but want something different. I think it is the overall package of the Sebenza 21 that appeals to me.

One major con, though--If I like it, then I'll have to get another, and another, and another. Down the expensive rabbit hole...
 
Screwdriver said:
You work at a knife shop and don't know the correct pricing of the basic? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

They are $500 from most knife shops, remember to add Tax, unless you're one of those guys that goes into a knife shop, uses they're services by holding the knife, asking questions, and then goes online to buy it out of state to cut tax and get a better deal.
 
k_ozdragon said:
Well its like the Prada purse example I used. Charging that much is what keeps them on the high end of the market and leads to the type of overhype you see with stuff like this. Lowering the price and making it a knife for the masses just makes it plain and ordinary. I'm sure I'm gonna get an earful for that statement, but its true. Yes its a well made knife, but face it, you aren't paying normal mark-up, you're paying a premium for it. Try ordering a knock off from China - and before you start I know its cheaper in China for a variety of reasons - but for $87 you can get a damn good copy with very similar tolerances. Its because CNC machining today is sophisticated and inexpensive. Oh and before I get all beat up for comparing CRK to a China copy, I have a print out FROM CRK warning people against buying from non authorized dealers due to the copies being so well made that its difficult to tell the difference between the fake and one of his. Of course the fake is garbage steel, but the f&f you all crave is very close; and close enough to fool so many people that CRK had to notify its consumers and even retailers.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with (non-copy/counterfeit) Chinese knives in general. I have several from reputable makers who make cheaper lines there.

I don't know the business well enough to know how much a premium markup I'm paying and I've never handled a Chinese copy (or an original, for that matter). I know CRK has to factor in insurance, salaries, benefits, machine running and repair costs and a host of other things. And I'm glad he does, although as a consumer I don't really care about that, I just want the end product, as many consumers do.

Could he bring the price down and still turn a good profit? Other people know better than I do if that is true. But so far, he has no reason to do that.

I'd charge a premium price (whatever that really is) continuously if I saw people were paying for it.

He could probably raise his prices and I bet he'd still do pretty well.

Again, don't own any CRKs myself, this is just how I see economics.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top