Got my first CRK Sebenza yesterday. The Emperor's new knife.

justsomedude said:
I only bother writing any of this because I think there's a lot of talk out there that could dissuade someone who is on the fence about CRK. In fact the OP says on the first page that he started the thread to tell people who are on the fence that he doesn't think they're worth it. Well it's my opinion that if you've gotten to the point of seriously considering one then it is absolutely worth trying.
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Well I slightly disagree. For a knife that expensive, I would want to hear/read any review out there including ones where people may be telling others it might not be worth the extra cash. Given the amount of amazing reviews out there, reading one or two neutral/negative (this review wasn't negative id say) reviews won't make you not buy the knife. It just might make you double check everything and maybe want to hold one in person. Which is exactly why this is a good thing. If someone else happens to have the same opinion as the guy who made this thread, they would be much better off checking out the knife in person before buying one. Mostly everyone loves this knife, but opinions vary as much as people's looks vary from one person to another. If one person feels a certain way though, it's likely someone else will too. A review like this shouldn't stop anyone from buying the knife, but it may make them find one to hold first, which is good! At this price point Id reccommend everyone who wants one to check one out in person first
 
I actually agree with you Converge it's just that the only thing OP said was essentially to ignore the good things people say. If his post had explained specific reasons why he believed it was not a worthwhile purchase and why others who share his criteria might feel the same way I'd have been all for it.

I'm also not trying to bash OP, his contributions to the ongoing discussion have been thoughtful.

What I am trying to advocate is that people pay attention to both positive and negative comments rather than recommending ignorance. (Not saying I've done this perfectly with my last two points but I tried)

I'm also arguing against the use of the word 'hype' as it implies deceit and I rarely see people go extravagantly or deceitfully over-the-top in lauding CRK knives, recommendations for them seem to be pretty well tempered in my experience.

It might just be the microcosm I occupy but I've seen many people considering CRK ask whether they should try it and for alternative suggestions. Rarely are the negative recommendations detailed, rational arguments, they usually just say 'CRK is nothing special, ignore the hype'. I would dislike an equally irrational positive recommendation just as much but there seem to be less of those.
 
Mine has just turned 2 ;)
lSk1djrl.jpg

Cheers
 
uofaengr said:
I agree. There was a certain level of sarcasm in my post. Flippers aren't my favorite either, I wish my Hinderers were non-flippers. With the knife industry and marketing increasingly skewing towards the tactical side, more and more are becoming enamored with doobers like flippers and bearings on their knives. The cool factor (not to me) of blades flying out with a loud thwack at the press of a fingertip and being extremely and unnecessarily overbuilt has a heavy influence on some in the knife hobby. Some can't understand the slow, deliberate, hydraulic like opening of a CRK with its initially painful thumbstud. It's an old man's hoity-toity knife to some, not having the whizzbang of a lot of the other high end production and midtech knives out there.

Just an opinion from a casual observer, though I saw this argument a lot when the Benchmade 761 came out.
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Having tested a lot of the knives over the years I can see how some would see the cool factor.

Maybe I am just getting old or something but I am drawn more to the simpler understated designs personally.

So if some think the CRK's are the old man's hoity-toity knife then I suppose that's fine because that's what's in my pocket, that or a Military.
 
justsomedude said:
I actually agree with you Converge it's just that the only thing OP said was essentially to ignore the good things people say. If his post had explained specific reasons why he believed it was not a worthwhile purchase and why others who share his criteria might feel the same way I'd have been all for it.

I'm also not trying to bash OP, his contributions to the ongoing discussion have been thoughtful.

What I am trying to advocate is that people pay attention to both positive and negative comments rather than recommending ignorance. (Not saying I've done this perfectly with my last two points but I tried)

I'm also arguing against the use of the word 'hype' as it implies deceit and I rarely see people go extravagantly or deceitfully over-the-top in lauding CRK knives, recommendations for them seem to be pretty well tempered in my experience.

It might just be the microcosm I occupy but I've seen many people considering CRK ask whether they should try it and for alternative suggestions. Rarely are the negative recommendations detailed, rational arguments, they usually just say 'CRK is nothing special, ignore the hype'. I would dislike an equally irrational positive recommendation just as much but there seem to be less of those.
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This goes along with a point I made earlier about just hatin' for the sake of hatin' when you do not even have experience with the knife. However, your point about the other side of the coin, irrational fanboying, (I just made a new word) is just as valid.

Any argument, either for or against, should be backed up by facts, logic, personal experience, specific examples of that experience, and rational thought.

Just my $0.02
 
I’ve had a large regular Sebenza since about 2005. It was my first expensive knife, and I bought it because of the hype. I’ve mostly been a subdued fan boy. But now, after all these years, I’m struggling not to hate it.


It’s ugly. And the Rock’n R cattle brand on a grey turd doesn’t help. CRK needs an artist.


Lock up is solid. Rock Solid. Very smooth to open — hydraulic, not flippy like an Axis lock. Perfectly centered blade. But the lockbar is almost at 100 percent, despite rather limited use because I like my other knives so much better.


Ergos: mediocre.


Fit and Finish: excellent.


Tolerances: I’ll take your word that they are super excellent.


Blade: Beautiful hollow ground blade with nicely acute geometry and a pointy point. It’s a true slicer. But when I cut off the end of an old dog leash and hit a rivet, I rolled the whole edge with one cut. The knife suddenly became worthless, except for spreading butter. The steel is soft and thin.


Steel: S30V is an OK steel in today’s market. Mine chips — not much, but enough to be annoying. I can see it with a 10X loupe. I can feel the chips when slicing paper. S35VN may fix these problems. But the steel is still too soft (58-59 Rc).

Edge: Beautiful convex edge that Chris Reeve apparently spent 6 months to perfect. But the steel is soft so the edge goes dull quickly, which means it has to be sharpened by a non-genius who didn't spend 6 months perfecting the geometry.


Price: Probably fair, maybe more than fair, given that it’s made in the USA and has super tight tolerances.


Resale value: excellent.


I just bought new 25 Carbon Fiber, which I’m hoping will fix everything I don’t like about my large regular. But I’m skeptical. Hopefully, the excellent resale value will bail me out if I don’t like it.
 
The Sebenza's are awesome, somehow I've managed to resist buying one. I will own one someday when I break down and just take the plunge.
 
Twindog said:
I’ve had a large regular Sebenza since about 2005. It was my first expensive knife, and I bought it because of the hype. I’ve mostly been a subdued fan boy. But now, after all these years, I’m struggling not to hate it.


It’s ugly. And the Rock’n R cattle brand on a grey turd doesn’t help. CRK needs an artist.


Lock up is solid. Rock Solid. Very smooth to open — hydraulic, not flippy like an Axis lock. Perfectly centered blade. But the lockbar is almost at 100 percent, despite rather limited use because I like my other knives so much better.


Ergos: mediocre.


Fit and Finish: excellent.


Tolerances: I’ll take your word that they are super excellent.


Blade: Beautiful hollow ground blade with nicely acute geometry and a pointy point. It’s a true slicer. But when I cut off the end of an old dog leash and hit a rivet, I rolled the whole edge with one cut. The knife suddenly became worthless, except for spreading butter. The steel is soft and thin.


Steel: S30V is an OK steel in today’s market. Mine chips — not much, but enough to be annoying. I can see it with a 10X loupe. I can feel the chips when slicing paper. S35VN may fix these problems. But the steel is still too soft (58-59 Rc).

Edge: Beautiful convex edge that Chris Reeve apparently spent 6 months to perfect. But the steel is soft so the edge goes dull quickly, which means it has to be sharpened by a non-genius who didn't spend 6 months perfecting the geometry.


Price: Probably fair, maybe more than fair, given that it’s made in the USA and has super tight tolerances.


Resale value: excellent.


I just bought new 25 Carbon Fiber, which I’m hoping will fix everything I don’t like about my large regular. But I’m skeptical. Hopefully, the excellent resale value will bail me out if I don’t like it.
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Now that's what I call a good review. I definitely get how many are are turned off by the cosmetics, and the ergonomics aren't the best in the industry, at least for my hands. Now the 25 could be a whole nother story.
 
Twindog said:
I just bought new 25 Carbon Fiber, which I’m hoping will fix everything I don’t like about my large regular. But I’m skeptical. Hopefully, the excellent resale value will bail me out if I don’t like it.
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There is going to be a rather large difference between the Regular and the 25 as you will find out once you get yours.

Personally I like the refinements of the 25 and believe that it's the best Sebenza yet. :thumbup:
 
I wonder sometimes if people had spent the extra $75 for micarta or wood inlays if they would have enjoyed the Sebenza more. The plain sided knives don't feel right in my hand, but with an inlay to make it just a bit bigger around it fits me perfectly. Plain sided Sebenzas don't seem much different, in my hand, from any other slab sided Ti folder and I would have been very disappointed had I spent $400+ on one.
 
I bought my first CRK recently sight unseen due to what I have read, and seen mainly here. I bought a mint, but used Sebenza 25 here on the sales forum for what I thought was a fair price for both seller, and me, the buyer, but less than a new one so I was hedging my bet a bit. I was not disappointed in the 25. The blade is perfectly centered, it opens and closes extremely smoothly, the lock up is great, and it is a beautifully made knife. You have to appreciate the fit, finish and tight tolerances though. I like well made things, and will pay a premium for them.
 
MatthewSB said:
I wonder sometimes if people had spent the extra $75 for micarta or wood inlays if they would have enjoyed the Sebenza more. The plain sided knives don't feel right in my hand, but with an inlay to make it just a bit bigger around it fits me perfectly. Plain sided Sebenzas don't seem much different, in my hand, from any other slab sided Ti folder and I would have been very disappointed had I spent $400+ on one.
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I agree with you when it comes to the small. My small micarta has much better ergos than the plain. On the large I prefer no inserts. The slabs are thicker and wider and fill the hand nicely. What I like most about it is the low profile. For a sizable knife it rides light.
 
SmedleyButler said:
I got the large 21. After playing with it for a day, all I can say is: "so what?????"

If you are on the fence after reading all of the near-mythical fan-lore of this knife, don't do it. This is the perfect example of the emperor's new clothes. It's a nice knife. Solid. No blade play and centered. Whatever...It is not a $450 knife or a $400 knife or even a $300 knife. It is a $220 knife that gives my Spyderco Southard a good run for the money.

Ignore the insane hype and hold one in your own hands before buying one. It's a fine knife but nothing more than that.

Sheesh, I'm a sucker, lol.
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I work at a knife shop, and I agree. Sebenzas have a ridiculous amount of over sensationalism. Is it a good knife? Absolutely; but is it the knife directly descended from gods? Hardly. They're also overpriced. $500 for a basic model, or $700 if you want a piece of carnelian in it, seriously? They are not hand made, they are made on a CNC machine then hand assembled. I put together Benchmades and Spydercos all day and can tell you they assemble just fine and can be just as smooth with fine tuning. Will the blade be as centered - not exactly - but does that deserve an extra $400? What do you think...
 
I totally agree with you, I bought a large Micarta Sebenza and used it for a while to get the feel of all what it is capable of. Don't get me wrong, you can tell it's a high quality knife, but it's definitely not worth that kind of money. I much prefer a Spyderco over it.

The good thing about investing in a Sebenza is that you can always sell it for close to what you have bought it for.
 
k_ozdragon said:
I work at a knife shop, and I agree. Sebenzas have a ridiculous amount of over sensationalism. Is it a good knife? Absolutely; but is it the knife directly descended from gods? Hardly. They're also overpriced. $500 for a basic model, or $700 if you want a piece of carnelian in it, seriously? They are not hand made, they are made on a CNC machine then hand assembled. I put together Benchmades and Spydercos all day and can tell you they assemble just fine and can be just as smooth with fine tuning. Will the blade be as centered - not exactly - but does that deserve an extra $400? What do you think...
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Check your pricing. As far as I know MSRP for what you call a "basic" large model is $410.00, and the "basic" small is $350.00. I have seen many embellished models, depending on the embellishment, range from $485.00 to $800.00. I think someone is exaggerating, or price gouging.

And if you seriously can't tell the difference between the fit, finish, and tolerances between a Benchmade and a CRK, then buy a Benchmade, and don't worry about the "ridiculous amount of over sensationalism". :rolleyes:

It may be over priced to you, but please don't insult me by telling me I paid too much for something that I feel is worth the price and is not "ridiculously over sensationalized".
 
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spydercofan said:
I totally agree with you, I bought a large Micarta Sebenza and used it for a while to get the feel of all what it is capable of. Don't get me wrong, you can tell it's a high quality knife, but it's definitely not worth that kind of money. I much prefer a Spyderco over it.

The good thing about investing in a Sebenza is that you can always sell it for close to what you have bought it for.
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So keeping it's resale value is not part of the value of the knife?

The worth of a product is many things to many people. Maybe it's not worth it to you, but many people disagree.
 
ebidis said:
Check your pricing. As far as I know MSRP for what you call a "basic" large model is $410.00, and the "basic" small is $350.00. I have seen many embellished models, depending on the embellishment, range from $485.00 to $800.00. I think someone is exaggerating, or price gouging.

And if you seriously can't tell the difference between the fit, finish, and tolerances between a Benchmade and a CRK, then buy a Benchmade, and don't worry about the "ridiculous amount of over sensationalism". :rolleyes:

It may be over priced to you, but please don't insult me by telling me I paid too much for something that I feel is worth the price and is not "ridiculously over sensationalized".
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You're way too sensitive if you feel people discussing something is insulting you. I sell knives for a living and stand by everything I said. I'm sure someone who spends $12k on a Prada purse will tell you it was worth it too. Never said they're a bad knife, just over priced. Also, yes I see the tolerance differences, and its not worth the inflated cost.
 
k_ozdragon said:
You're way too sensitive if you feel people discussing something is insulting you. I sell knives for a living and stand by everything I said. I'm sure someone who spends $12k on a Prada purse will tell you it was worth it too. Never said they're a bad knife, just over priced. Also, yes I see the tolerance differences, and its not worth the inflated cost.
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I apologize, I probably was being overly sensitive.:o I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers.

I understand that it is your opinion that the Sebenza is overpriced. I personally believe that the Sebenza it is not overpriced, or "ridiculously over sensationalized". Especially when there are customs, and mid-techs on the market with tolerances and fit and finish which are no better, or even worse, and cost 50% to 300% more than a Sebenza.
 
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