Got my first CRK Sebenza yesterday. The Emperor's new knife.

AmericanEDC said:
I'll throw down a few thoughts...I've never owned nor have I fondled or even seen a Sebenza in real life. I tried and in fact posted to try and see one in the Orlando area. It was to no avail. Nobody volunteered a meet up.

I've been on their list for many months now for a small 21, micarta, lefty; essentially I have an order in though they didn't take any money or credit card from me.

So my first point: CRK's are one of the very few companies to manufacture a pure lefty knife. Nobody has mentioned this. It's an extremely valid point to many of us. There is a value in that for me (not true for the OP)

Though touched on by a few of the last posts, the ability of this knife to take a spa treatment and the manufacturer's willingness do set it apart and are of value. They factor into my decision to buy one. If I ever chose to sell the knife, there's a reasonable expectation that I could bring it back to 95-100% cosmetically for the sale leading me to my next point:

What semi production knife maintains anywhere near the resale value of a Sebenza 21? If I don't like it, love it, whatever I'm only out the moderate depreciation.

There are Americans being paid to make this thing -- Americans making a living wage I'm to understand. I'm willing to pay extra for that. I'll pay extra when it's ANY product for which I have the choice. Hype or no, I factor into the higher price some of this.

Tolerances = time, time = money. This is very true. You are paying for fit and finish as you would with any product.

There are products that are mass manufactured such as engines where the best performing of batches (randomly so I may add) are pulled from the line and used for higher end models or those destined to race. They literally depend on some luck to result in higher performance specs. From what I can tell CRK isn't depending on luck. Each of their products is manufactured to the same standard. Granted there are 17 or so parts fit together rather than a hundred as in an engine but still.

Equipment: anyone who has owned a company knows how many hidden costs are involved. The public has no clue. I once had to fly an inspector from Canada to Alaska, put him up in a hotel, take him fishing (the bribe for him to even do this) to get an oven re-certified for commercial use in one of my delis because a flippin sticker was rubbed off. You have to sell a crapload of baked items to pay for just the airfare on something like that. I bet CRK is running through some expensive tools grinding titanium scales. What happens when that equipment must be serviced? He probably has full time mechanics on staff. In one of my companies we couldn't justify full time IT so paid about $25,000 per year to make essentially phone calls where the support company remote logged in to our server or PC's and fixed stuff. That $25k was less than any other option I had. The point is...how many Sebenzas could they be selling? Not one of my hundreds of Facebook friends would have a clue what a Sebenza is. He's not selling ketchup. Each of those knives absorbs the cost of so many fixed and variable costs he has. Without his licensing fees he might not even be profitable? I'm not an apologist for CRK. My sense of it is that he occupies a rather unique position where his knives aren't exactly production and aren't exactly custom. His does not seem to be a model that many others survive with. Hinderer comes to mind...but he also licenses and sells beads and pens. Oh, and his knives are quite a bit more expensive (beefier too).

If I ever get mine perhaps I'll be able to chime in with my impressions. I'm carrying a Dragonfly 2 in ZDP-189 today, a $77 dollar FFG that's very nearly a disposable in comparison to the Sebenza. Why? As a scuffed up user I doubt I'd see $35 out of it on the exchange.

Cheers all! I hope I made at least one decent point.
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Btw, I too am a lefty and ordered a lefty Ebony seb 21 last April. Yes last April 2014 and they just now contacted me saying the knife has just been made and it's ready :)
 
People complain that CRK is overhyped but it's starting to feel like there are ten people saying it's overhyped for every one person hyping it.

The best (and only objective) argument for trying a CRK is value retention. If you buy one used you can likely sell it at no loss, even bought new you can resell and expect to lose <$50 so for that reason alone you SHOULD buy one if you're on the fence.

CRK is the Rolex of the knife world: Many people say they're overpriced and overhyped, many say they're completely worth it but regardless of which side you fall there's no denying that they hold value incredibly well and therefore are relatively cheap to try out.
 
I love my Sebenza so much, that I wanted to try another CRK. So I bought an Umnumzaan three days ago. I'm impressed by the Umnumzaan as well.:):)

Both are keepers for me.
 
Hard use EDC, just looks good doing it. There is a night and day difference between a CRK and most other production knives. It is high performance, but the precision and workmanship is a step above. I have been in manufacturing both as a hobby and work for years and boy can I tell.
I also appreciate many other knives for other features in the sub 100$ range. You get what you pay for most of time, and in this case it is worth every penny.

 
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Thank god! Someone finally gets that these knives that people are paying upwards of $1,000 (not necessarily crk) are being made with the same materials that the $150-200 knives. I get that they are "custom" "hand fitted" and such but it's still a cutting tool and I'm quite certain my ZT which cost $200 can do the same job just as good. I know to some people that they are "art" or collectable but that's just not practical to me.
 
Lpd226 said:
Thank god! Someone finally gets that these knives that people are paying upwards of $1,000 (not necessarily crk) are being made with the same materials that the $150-200 knives. I get that they are "custom" "hand fitted" and such but it's still a cutting tool and I'm quite certain my ZT which cost $200 can do the same job just as good. I know to some people that they are "art" or collectable but that's just not practical to me.
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By this same logic, you spent $200.00 on "just a cutting tool". Why spend so much for a cutting tool?
There are much cheaper cutting tools out there.

Devils Advocacy and all that jazz ;)
 
justsomedude said:
People complain that CRK is overhyped but it's starting to feel like there are ten people saying it's overhyped for every one person hyping it.

The best (and only objective) argument for trying a CRK is value retention. If you buy one used you can likely sell it at no loss, even bought new you can resell and expect to lose <$50 so for that reason alone you SHOULD buy one if you're on the fence.

CRK is the Rolex of the knife world: Many people say they're overpriced and overhyped, many say they're completely worth it but regardless of which side you fall there's no denying that they hold value incredibly well and therefore are relatively cheap to try out.
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That has to be a joke about 10-1. I have a ton of knives but am pretty new to the forum and have often wondered if CR pays people to hype his knives here. I'm blown away by how the crk knives are seen and the ultimate knife here. I've handled one and wasn't overly impressed. Seemed like a really nice, over priced, very basic knife that has been over hyped. Not a much better way to put it.
 
tdkfm said:
That has to be a joke about 10-1. I have a ton of knives but am pretty new to the forum and have often wondered if CR pays people to hype his knives here. I'm blown away by how the crk knives are seen and the ultimate knife here. I've handled one and wasn't overly impressed. Seemed like a really nice, over priced, very basic knife that has been over hyped. Not a much better way to put it.
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If I were to ask,..What price would you put on your intellectual property, time and of course, the business foundation to produce these? Of course, this is assuming that you have a working knowlege of manufacturing. Let me know if you don't...as you seem like you probably know the cost of doing business in the US.
 
tdkfm said:
That has to be a joke about 10-1. I have a ton of knives but am pretty new to the forum and have often wondered if CR pays people to hype his knives here. I'm blown away by how the crk knives are seen and the ultimate knife here. I've handled one and wasn't overly impressed. Seemed like a really nice, over priced, very basic knife that has been over hyped. Not a much better way to put it.
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CRK knives aren't over hyped at all, they didn't get the Blade Show Manufacturing Award 13 out of the last 14 years for nothing, that award is given based on votes from Manufacturers and Makers.

From what goes into producing these knives at the tolerance levels that they use they are priced fairly, working in those tolerance ranges isn't cheap.

However nobody is saying that you have to like their knives. ;)
 
tdkfm said:
That has to be a joke about 10-1. I have a ton of knives but am pretty new to the forum and have often wondered if CR pays people to hype his knives here. I'm blown away by how the crk knives are seen and the ultimate knife here. I've handled one and wasn't overly impressed. Seemed like a really nice, over priced, very basic knife that has been over hyped. Not a much better way to put it.
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I too thought the Sebenza was overpriced for what it was.....Now, I think it is worth every penny. Until I actually owned one and was able to feel the quality, then I changed my mind.

People ether understand and like them, or they don't see what the big deal is and dislike them. Then there is people like you who incessantly push their hate for them.

There are many knives that people like that people post here that I do not care for, but I have never made it my mission to change the opinions, or imply that the people that like them are really paid trolls by the knife company. You just implied that some of us that like CRK are liars.

IMHO, you are really pushing into trolling land.

Digital Technology, Informal.
  • to post inflammatory or inappropriate messages or comments on (the Internet, especially a message board) for the purpose of upsetting other users and provoking a response.
  • to upset or provoke (other users) by posting such messages or comments.
 
bhyde said:
By this same logic, you spent $200.00 on "just a cutting tool". Why spend so much for a cutting tool?
There are much cheaper cutting tools out there.

Devils Advocacy and all that jazz ;)
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Yes but I said my " cutting tool" used the same quality materials as the crk. I understand that the quality of the material will improve the performance of a tool but putting someone's initials won't. Don't get me wrong they are beautiful knives but functionally I believe my "high end" knives perform the same or better.
 
Ankerson said:
However nobody is saying that you have to like their knives. ;)
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True that. And saying they don't like their knives is about the only thing they could say to try and wipe the egg off their faces. I mean are they seriously going to try to make the claim that the makers and manufacturers who collectively awarded CRK knives the Blade Show Manufacturing Award 13 out of the last 14 years were caught up in hype? Please! :rolleyes:
 
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I know that I really like mine. :) :thumbup:

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Screwdriver said:
I too thought the Sebenza was overpriced for what it was.....Now, I think it is worth every penny. Until I actually owned one and was able to feel the quality, then I changed my mind.

People ether understand and like them, or they don't see what the big deal is and dislike them. Then there is people like you who incessantly push their hate for them.

There are many knives that people like that people post here that I do not care for, but I have never made it my mission to change the opinions, or imply that the people that like them are really paid trolls by the knife company. You just implied that some of us that like CRK are liars.

IMHO, you are really pushing into trolling land.

Digital Technology, Informal.
  • to post inflammatory or inappropriate messages or comments on (the Internet, especially a message board) for the purpose of upsetting other users and provoking a response.
  • to upset or provoke (other users) by posting such messages or comments.
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Sounds more like you are the one trying to stir something up. All I did was post my observation. You CRK guys seem to upset easily though. I have no problem with the knives, I just dont see why they are as popular as they are. Maybe if I owned one I would. I just don't understand little strips of material as scales and don't see that in any practical use I need any less tolerance than the normal $150-200 knife has.

I actually complimented a guy's sabenza on here yesterday. Guess that took points away from my incessant hate?
 
bld522 said:
True that. And saying they don't like their knives is about the only thing they could say to try and wipe the egg off their faces. I mean are they seriously going to try to make the claim that the makers and manufacturers that collectively awarded CRK knives the Blade Show Manufacturing Award 13 out of the last 14 years were caught up in hype? Please! :rolleyes:
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What that shows is the amount of respect that CRK has in the knife industry from their peers.

That's something that has to be earned.
 
In the F&F department I don't think there can really be any complaints. I reviewed a modded Sebenza made 10+ years ago and the fit and finish was on par with my custom knives from Terzuola and Emerson. To achieve that in a production knife vs. something made completely by hand, one knife at a time, is a feat. I can imagine that an unmodded stock knife would be even more precise in that regard and might surpass the F&F of those custom knives as well as customs by other makers. By this I mean the micro details, things you can't really see except with magnification and have to go to fractions of a millimeter to measure.

However in other regards I think the Sebenza has legitimate criticisms and a lot of apologists still counter with logic I don't think they would use for other knives.

First, the edge retention and softer heat treat - People will say that this is by design, and advantageous over harder heat treats, because of "ease of sharpening". I don't buy that. Look at Emerson chisel ground tantos for knives that are really meant for ease of sharpening. You can scrape the straight edges on a mug or a panel of glass a few times and get it back to sharp. I highly doubt anyone will sharpen a V ground Sebenza like that in the field, considering the expense of the knife and the precision of the grind. It might be an easier time sharpening it when you have the right tools for sharpening available. But if these tools are right in front of you, and if you have the skill to sharpen that precise V grind well (not an easy task), then sharpening steels that are run a little bit harder should be no issue.

Second, the expense. People say CRK hasn't raised their prices in 20+ years. What does that really mean? That even through 20 years of inflation and increases in energy and material costs, CRK can still make a profit selling their knives for the same price. I am not saying the price isn't warranted - the subjective value discussion has been had many times. But justifying the knife's price with this particular argument doesn't really make sense, and calling attention to how the Sebenza might not be the most cost effective knife can't be dismissed by this fact.

Third, tolerances. The F&F of CRKs is amazing. That doesn't mean other knives don't come close. The current objections to this is that CRKs are easier to take apart and put back together because of how well they are built. Someone said that their CRK was the only knife that he never experienced blade play with. This is silliness. I have owned production button lock autos that were not only much easier to disassemble and reassemble than any liner lock or frame lock could ever be, but also had no blade play whatsoever, none, and I tried hard to find some in the open, closed and mid-travel positions. That's on a $100 button lock auto. There are aspects of CRK's manufacture that really are exceptional. Don't resort to actual hyperbole and trashing of other knives. There are so many other things to comment on that other production knives don't even touch.
 
I always wondered about the price of reeve knives. All I will say is that I'm up to 3 sebenzas and if I had just bought one on the first place I wouldn't have all those other knives sitting in my drawer. CRK small sebenza is my main edc period. Yeah I have multiple spyderco, benchmade, and zt knives but none of them have the elegance of the Reeve knives.

Full disclosure I do not like flippers at all. I know some of you won't believe that but it's true. It's not like I get in a lot of gang fights and can't wait the extra half a second to slowly open my knife blade, plus the past several years I have tendinitis in my right elbow. YMMV
 
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