Got pulled over last night...

Nmpops gave some pretty poor advice...if I ask you for any weapons, I expect you to have half a brain and tell me about the scissors in your fanny pack, or swiss army knife on your keychain.

The officer is asking if you have anything that poses a safety risk to him. If you say "no" and I find seven knives all over you like some kind of porcupine, you'd be getting charged and have a concealed weapons flag on your file. THEN every time you are dealt with by a fellow officer, they deal with you in a more serious manner.

The OP played it right. He was forthcoming and probably didn't care about the keychain knife, or thebonenin your pocket. The officer even told you that it could get you into trouble if you run into a more zealous officer.

Sometimes we have to turn down our "civil rights meter" and think, do I legitimately need 7 knives for my trip to the grocery store? Will my esee 6 really serve me well at the library? I ALWAYS carry a knife...I will carry multiples if I seriously think it will serve me. Cooler heads always prevail.
 
Alright maybe some of the resident LEOs can answer a question I've got on the matter. What exactly is it that makes some officers such jerks when somebody says they're carrying a knife for self defense? What is it about that statement that makes them decide to proceed with much greater hostility than if the person says they've got the knife for utilitarian purposes like cutting down broken tree limbs when a pruning saw binds too easily in comparison?
 
My 2 cents:

Every day I talk to 5 or 10 D-bags (D as in dirt of course). These range in demographic from baby gangster, to disgruntled truck driver, sketchy taxi driver, and the much beloved mall ninja.

Many of these people are armed with whatever, knife, club, gun (where applicable). These people all carry for "Self Defence" which usually means that they are overly confrontational with people, and when someone takes umbrage to their jerk-holery and wants to fight, these guys whip out their self defence weapons.

The law clearly states (in Canada at least) that one cannot carry a weapon in a public place. When someone says it is for self defence, they admit that indeed they are carrying something meant for harming other people. Usually these people are bags of milk, and put little to no effort into a martial art, to exercise self control, or use less lethal means (like your fists).

Then you have the mall ninjas...I recommend you go to Mark MacYoungs website and read his essay on violence geeks. This is a frighteningly accurate portrayal. There is a level of ignorance of the law with these guys that scares me.

It just gets really old.
 
k1ssthecook, a fair argument sir. That "type" is out there and I feel you're right in distrusting them (I'm also a Marc MacYoung fan). I would add a special subset of that type, which is a "scared schmuck" of sorts, generally a person of low income and education who lives in a more dangerous environment and thinks merely carrying a pocket knife in the bottom of their purse or backpack will keep them safe yet makes zero effort to learn how to use a knife in combat or any other step in the Use of Force Continuum that would probably be far more effective.

But I think they are minority demographic. The nature of police work simply means they are the vast majority of the people you encounter. It biases you, making you think everyone who carries for that reason is some pugnacious moron. Whereas people like me, you probably will never have occasion to talk to except to take a witness statement.
 
Agree with the subset of cowardly tough guys. I would like to make the distinction that the majority of people I deal with are the minority of the population.

If you have a knife and get stopped by a police officer, congratulations you are an officer safety risk...you will be treated as such.

Rule # 1: Go home at the end of your shift.
 
You were pat down for a simply traffic violation?!?!? That is precisely why you never provide an LEO more info than is necessary or required by law. You have the right to remain silent. Most often it's best to practice that right and keep your mouth shut excepting to answer as/if required by law. Never give him probable cause to search you and never consent to any search.
 
NMpops said:
More people get in trouble by offering too much information. The officer asked you if you had any weapons. Knives, especially in Ohio, should always be considered as tools. So your answer should have been a simple "NO"......
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Keep your mouth closed, everything and anything can be used against you by LEO. Keep it simple and don't offer extra info and get chatty during any kind of stop.
 
k1ssthecook said:
Nmpops gave some pretty poor advice...if I ask you for any weapons, I expect you to have half a brain and tell me about the scissors in your fanny pack, or swiss army knife on your keychain.

The officer is asking if you have anything that poses a safety risk to him. If you say "no" and I find seven knives all over you like some kind of porcupine, you'd be getting charged and have a concealed weapons flag on your file. THEN every time you are dealt with by a fellow officer, they deal with you in a more serious manner.

The OP played it right. He was forthcoming and probably didn't care about the keychain knife, or thebonenin your pocket. The officer even told you that it could get you into trouble if you run into a more zealous officer.

Sometimes we have to turn down our "civil rights meter" and think, do I legitimately need 7 knives for my trip to the grocery store? Will my esee 6 really serve me well at the library? I ALWAYS carry a knife...I will carry multiples if I seriously think it will serve me. Cooler heads always prevail.
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I understand what you are saying here to a degree. I always try and put myself in the LEO's shoes and am normally able to understand why they do the things they do. That being said, if I were asked if I had any weapons on me I would say tell them I didn't, provided we are only talking about knives. The reason for me personally, is not to withhold information or deceive the cop, but because I don't even think about my knife as a weapon. The thought to inform the cop I had a pocket knife on me would never cross my mind. I also don't carry four knives so I probably wouldn't look as much like a psycho (non-knife person would think this).
 
What do you mean deadly weapon, That's YOUR knife, isn't it officer? ;)

If it really was illegal haha...
 
k1ssthecook said:
Nmpops gave some pretty poor advice...if I ask you for any weapons, I expect you to have half a brain and tell me about the scissors in your fanny pack, or swiss army knife on your keychain.

The officer is asking if you have anything that poses a safety risk to him. If you say "no" and I find seven knives all over you like some kind of porcupine, you'd be getting charged and have a concealed weapons flag on your file. THEN every time you are dealt with by a fellow officer, they deal with you in a more serious manner.

The OP played it right. He was forthcoming and probably didn't care about the keychain knife, or thebonenin your pocket. The officer even told you that it could get you into trouble if you run into a more zealous officer.

Sometimes we have to turn down our "civil rights meter" and think, do I legitimately need 7 knives for my trip to the grocery store? Will my esee 6 really serve me well at the library? I ALWAYS carry a knife...I will carry multiples if I seriously think it will serve me. Cooler heads always prevail.
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I gave my advice based upon the laws of Arizona and New Mexico where I knife (or scissors or baseball bat) is not considered a weapon until it is used as such. When people ask for advise they should also check their own local laws. I realize Canada has very restrictive laws so I guess if I'm pulled over in Canada and asked if I have any weapons, aside from my little Case Peanut I should tell them about the tire iron and baseball bat and in the trunk and my walking stick and the pen I have in my pocket and my credit card as these have all been used as weapons at some point.

I still say your basic slip joint pocket knife is not a weapon and I will never claim it as such it is a TOOL.!
 
Cereal_killer said:
Here in Ohio the blade length limit for a folder is 4", each of the knives I had were under that, therefore the issue is can I be charged for concealing a 100% LEGAL to carry knife just because its in my pocket? Also here CWP's do NOT cover any weapons other than handguns, so there is no such thing as a weapons permit that covers larger knives.

I have an off topic issue I'd like to discuss with you if you're a Georgia LEO, can I email you?
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Have you actually read Ohio Knife Laws? From what I read on "Knife Up" it says nothing about blade length.
 
Officer training is fairly standard throughout the US, and I would argue that training standards in Canada are pretty similar. I was giving advice based on what I know from personal experience, every day that I go to work.

If I were to ask if you have a weapon, and you have scissors or a large screwdriver in your pocket, that is something I want to know about. A knife fits the bill as a weapon of opportunity anywhere in the world. Since knives are subject to individual restrictions, then I would easily class them as a weapon. This however is up to the officer to decide. Not some faux intellectual on an online forum.

If you tell the officer that you have a pocket knife, they probably won't care. But when I catch people in lies, espe ially when it is weapkns related, then I have cause to investigate further...
 
k1ssthecook said:
If you tell the officer that you have a pocket knife, they probably won't care. But when I catch people in lies, espe ially when it is weapkns related, then I have cause to investigate further...
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Okay time for a quick question. There's a lot of variance in the matter from location to location, officer to officer. But what's your own individual procedure if you find a knife on somebody who says they don't have a weapon, and the explanation you get is they didn't declare it because they never considered it a weapon due to the amount of utilitarian tasks they use it for? What's the procedure for an admission due to a lack of offensive interpretation? Are we talking an official reprimand or a verbal warning to be more mindful/careful in the future?

Case in point would be me with my BK9 on my belt. Some people would say it's a weapon, even though Kansas state law doesn't support that interpretation. Apart from vegetables and flowers, it's often used for cutting down trees that are in the way of me serving air conditioners or water heaters. Trailer parks are the absolute worst when it comes to that problem, with trees sometimes growing right on top of the AC units, or pinning the water heater doors shut. If you don't have a good chopping knife you're not getting through to the customers. And then there are the bushcrafters who don't view their knives as weapons but wilderness survival tools.
 
Personally, I would have said "I have no weapons, but a do have a couple of small pocket knives in my pockets."

Several makes it sound like your ready to go to war. ;)
 
You have to look from the officers perspective. Envision yourself in a job where some people hate you, just because you are alive. Now add the fact that you generally deal with people at their worst. Think about the family and friends you have at home. You like seeing them, don't you?

Now here is the scenario you gave me:
You are responding to a call of "man with a knife". A member of the sheeple community saw the BK9 on the hip of our "suspect" as he went to pay for a bottle of water at the gas station. You the officer, find the male a short distance away as he walks. I respond to many "man with a knife" calls, it is very common in Canada.

You do the formal intro and explain what's up, and why you are speaking to the fellow. You ask "do you have any weapons, guns, etc..." and the man replies "yes, I have a knife in my belt that I use for work". You may sieze the knife until the interaction is over (depends on you) or yiu might not. You then go through the motions of ascertaining why you got called.

You see the guy is wearing work style clothes and is wearing a shirt from a popular air conditioning company, you may also confirm that the male indeed works for said a/c company by asking fir a work ID. Then you ask if he had it out, or was using it recently, and the man replies "no". Everythig thus far would lead you to believe that this man is being honest, and the whole interaction takes maybe 15 minutes.

Now think about the same call, and the guy reaponds "no" to the weapons question. How would you feel if now you find a knife that can cut down a tree on this guys belt? I bet you would dig a bit deeper, wouldn't you. Just some food for thought.
 
Maybe I should've asked regarding the Victorinox instead. That's easier for the average person to categorize as a tool used on work.

When it comes to the "any weapons" discussion and the tool vs weapon debate it's easy to get a lot of confusion. Like when it comes to steel toed boots. Workplace safety equipment, or subtle offensive item for breaking the bones of an unsuspecting individual? How exactly is the line drawn in that discussion?
 
It all depends on circumstance. You have to look at the man. I have had several people pull the "it's a tool" card during interactions. One of them was a kid at a public library with a kabar imitation in his backpack. Obviously that is not acceptable.

Most people have absolutely nothing worry abiut, police aren't the boogeyman that everyone needs to fear. If you have a legitimate use for something (knives, or whatever) then don't worry about it.

But if you pose a risk to others, then part of my job is to mitigste that risk.
 
" Since knives are subject to individual restrictions, then I would easily class them as a weapon. This however is up to the officer to decide. Not some faux intellectual on an online forum."

Ummmm......Ummmm......ummmmmm....A Police officer doesn't "decide" the law. He enforces the law. So...the officer decides what is illegal or not...ummmmm.....yep that's about the way it usually goes......don't get me started....So, an officer who has a handgun, pepper spray, baton, handcuffs etc. etc. etc..is gonna be worried about a person who is merging. And he is gonna believe him when he says he is/is not armed? And I'm subject to a patdown for merging wrong..ummmm. OK.
 
greghvac said:
just give me my ticket
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Ain't that the damn truth. Pulled over for speeding...um in this case "illegal merge"..or something and you get searched and questioned and loaded in a police car...for what? Friggin' pocket knives.

Do you have any weapons?

"Yes, I've taken my 10yo to ball practice and I have a bat in the car"

WTF? Just damn...
 
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