greged: Very Disappointing!

Just to fill in some of the gaps somewhat, after I had received greged's email simply stating to "send it back" the next day to which I sent a followup email asking why I had received the curt reply, this is the explanation I received the following morning in an email from greged:

The dialog's over, you own the knife.
It is exactly as received from Dave Stark where the description was copied.
The only place it went was in the safe.
I'm not dicking you around either, you checked on this knife with numerous
people, and I assure you it is the same as when Will had it.
I think you are unreasonable in your expectations and I don't have the time,
(still working) or inclination to continue.

So, not only did he withdraw his earlier statement of "send it back", he had now somehow determined what was acceptable or not from my point of view based upon what he declared to be "reasonable".

I know that I can dispute the charge with visa and do the same with paypal. I have not done so hoping that he will have had time to think about his actions over the weekend and perhaps take a different approach during the coming week. If not, we'll proceed from there.

Having had a career of 25 years of federal law enforcement it pains me to think that I would have to use the legal system to adjudicate something I do as an avocation.

As has been said, one's good name, word and reputation are too valuable to allow to be damaged by a moment of bad judgement.

Frankly, if I thought it was a matter of greged just needing the money because he was in dire straits, we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, he mentioned to me that he was selling the knife to raise money to finance a hunting trip in Idaho. Hardly, what can be construed as dire need.
 
Sorry this happened Blues(Good to see you around more though). Greged needs to step up and take care of it. Condition can be subjective but you asked very clear questions about the condition of the knife so that should not have played a part in this.

I had something similar happen to me once on ebay where a buyer was not happy with the condition of the item I sold. I thought I had described it accurately but apparently I missed the very minor damage or it occured during shipping. Either way it was my fault. I offered the buyer the choice of returning the item for a full refund or a mutually agreed to discount to offset the damage. He chose the discount and ended up a happy customer. IMO greged needs to do atleast one of these things.
 
Not sure if anyone had already done so, but I sent Greg an email directing him to this thread. I don't think he spends a lot of time on Bladeforums unless he is looking to sell or buy a knife.
 
Well, I woke up aggravated about this whole damned incident today so I've gone ahead and reported the matter to Visa's dispute section and at their direction to PayPal as well.

I also notified greged via email of the action taken as a courtesy.

Ball is in his court now.

I had hoped he would do the right thing voluntarily. Since that's not going to happen I guess we'll take it to the next level.
 
Blues said:
Well, I woke up aggravated about this whole damned incident today so I've gone ahead and reported the matter to Visa's dispute section and at their direction to PayPal as well.

I also notified greged via email of the action taken as a courtesy.

Ball is in his court now.

I had hoped he would do the right thing voluntarily. Since that's not going to happen I guess we'll take it to the next level.
Click to expand...

Thats to bad Blues.

Been said before......... deal isn't done until EVERYONE is happy. DON'T spend the $$$ until the knife is released with a "I'm happy".

Hope things get straightened out.
 
Thank you all for the support. It means a great deal to me. :cool: :thumbup:
 
greged has replied via paypal and once again alleged that the knife is as received by him several months ago from the vendor he purchased through, (implying that therefore it must be good enough) and has not offered to refund the money.

He also continues to argue illogically that I checked with previous owners. I fail to see how that could matter even if I had.

It would be ludicrous for me to check on the current condition of something with the former owner who had it years before. How in the world could that person comment on the current condition? (That'd be like me asking the owner of a car ten years ago how the car's condition is today.)

(As previously mentioned, I contacted a former owner to ask if he thought the knife worth the price if as described. He didn't even know that I had already purchased it. The other owner I contacted merely for permission to use his images. There was no other discussion.)

So, bottom line is, if you buy a knife from greged, you don't get to decide if it meets your critical standards and was properly and honestly described. Once you receive it it's yours and non-negotiable. :thumbdn:
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I guess he doesn't care about his reputation on this forum.
Click to expand...

You think? :barf:

Well, I don't expect paypal to resolve anything since they only seem to deal with issues of receipt or non-receipt; not matters of condition, accuracy of description, fraud etc.

The open dispute through Visa will hopefully prove to be more useful in this regard.

Time will tell.
 
Blues,
If what you desire is your money back, I think you have taken the correct action. I have found in similar circumstances that your credit card company can be your best ally.

If you have sent back the knife and furnish proof of that to your credit card company, they will get the charge reversed and your loss will be the shipping.

Sorry to hear of this type of situation. Been there and I can understand your frustration.

Good Luck,
Peter
 
peterinct said:
Blues,
If what you desire is your money back, I think you have taken the correct action. I have found in similar circumstances that your credit card company can be your best ally.

If you have sent back the knife and furnish proof of that to your credit card company, they will get the charge reversed and your loss will be the shipping.

Sorry to hear of this type of situation. Been there and I can understand your frustration.

Good Luck,
Peter
Click to expand...

Thanks, Peter. :thumbup:

Visa advised me this morning in fact to return the knife via insured mail to PayPal in Omaha, NE which I just got back from doing a short while ago.

(They advised shipping to the designated person at PayPal since the seller in this instance made it quite clear that he had changed his mind and would not accept the knife back even though he was the one that suggested it initially.)

I have forwarded them copies of the letter accompanying the knife as well as images of the postal receipts and numbers.

Hopefully they will be able to rectify what should have been easily accomplished without their intervention.
 
And all of this probably could have been avoided with better communication on the other end.

But I don't blame you for getting rid of what is still probably a very nice knife. I'm sure every time you pick it up you're reminded of this whole thing.

Greged's silence here and attitude towards you in the email pretty much sums him up. :thumbdn:
 
I've been following this as well, and I'm sorry to see this, Elliott, especially with someonewho is well respected and reputable as you.

My experiences with Paypal have been pretty good in cases like this, and the last two items I disputed resulted in full refunds due to the items being not as described, and both were missing critical parts. Paypal allowed me to keep the items, and with a bit of expense to replace the missing items, I was good to go.

I mention this because I'm suprised that Paypal didn't act in your favor, especially since the knife was signifigantly not as described.

Sounds like you are on the road to a resolution. :thumbup:
 
Thanks, Mike, I appreciate the support.

I've never had occasion in the past to test PayPal's support so I was kind of surprised that when I escalated the matter to a dispute (or whatever their own terminology was) it was denied instantly (literally within seconds) without any kind of human intervention. Apparently, from the reply generated, they don't get involved in issues involving material differences, fraud etc, only whether you received something or not. (At least that's what it appeared to say. Seemed kinda bizarre.)

The fact is that I only disputed via PayPal because Visa advised doing so.

I'm much more heartened by the fact that Visa directed me to return the item to a person designated at PayPal so that Visa can initiate the process of reversing the charge (which has at least been temporarily suspended).

I suppose I should've known that something like this could happen but I'm happy to say that most all my dealings with people in the greater knife community (makers as well as users/collectors) have been positive with a few notable exceptions.

I appreciate all the kind support I've received here. It makes dealing with this b.s. a lot more palatable.
 
FWIW, here is the wording that PayPal uses in their canned reply regarding the claim not meeting their filing guidelines:

We have completed our investigation of this case. No further action is required by you at this time. We have denied this claim. As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal’s Buyer Complaint Policy only applies to the shipment of goods, not to disputes about the attributes or quality of the goods received. We have noted your claim in the seller's record. The seller's account privileges will be limited if excessive complaints are received.

So, as you can see, it's essentially worthless if someone happens to send you something materially different than the item you intended to purchase via the transaction.

My concerns about PayPal's "having my back" are what prompted me to pay for the purchase through Visa rather than another method.
 
So, as you can see, it's essentially worthless
Click to expand...

The same applies to ebay (which owns paypal). If you pay $20,000 for an antique San Francisco bowie and you get a Pakistani imitation worth $10, that's fine with ebay -- you paid for something and you got something, that's all they care about. Fortunately credit card companies look at it differently.
 
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