GSM Outdoors acquires SOG Knives

[Bob Denman]

I guess that in the future: we may have to refer to "Pre-", and "Post-" GSM knives...

 

[Joshua J.]

Name one single thing they did to "improve" Cold Steel ?

There is nothing that could be done to improve Cold Steel because they've always been one of the highest quality knife manufacturers in the world.
That's the point, if the people working on Cold Steel designs suddenly have input on SOG, then SOG will improve in quality.
If the two companies are kept totally separate then nothing will change.

 

[WValtakis]

There is nothing that could be done to improve Cold Steel because they've always been one of the highest quality knife manufacturers in the world.
That's the point, if the people working on Cold Steel designs suddenly have input on SOG, then SOG will improve in quality.
If the two companies are kept totally separate then nothing will change.

You're missing the point, Cold Steel has been completely gutted and the customer service is basically non-existent since the purchase by GSM.

 

[Joshua J.]

You're missing the point, Cold Steel has been completely gutted and the customer service is basically non-existent since the purchase by GSM.

As a consumer it sucks if customer service is poor, but that has nothing to do with the quality of knives.

As long as they keep placing orders with the same factories the products will remain exactly the same.
My biggest concern is they don't have a high profile designer in house anymore, but that's more a question of potential than current value.
Pre-2012 Cold Steel had become stagnant, then Demko refreshed everything and now they're one of my favorite companies, from the 3V Warcraft to the AUS-10 Voyager, there are very few Cold Steel products I can find fault with, and to that point it's hard to imagine how anyone could make meaningful improvements over the current lineup so it's a good question how important new designs are to the future of the company.
Spyderco uses sprint runs and collaborations to attract attention, but they still have perennial models like the Civilian or steel handle Police being in production for 25+ years, if GSM wants to just keep selling what Cold Steel has on offer right now that's fine by me.

 

[kreole]

As a consumer it sucks if customer service is poor, but that has nothing to do with the quality of knives.

As long as they keep placing orders with the same factories the products will remain exactly the same.
My biggest concern is they don't have a high profile designer in house anymore, but that's more a question of potential than current value.
Pre-2012 Cold Steel had become stagnant, then Demko refreshed everything and now they're one of my favorite companies, from the 3V Warcraft to the AUS-10 Voyager, there are very few Cold Steel products I can find fault with, and to that point it's hard to imagine how anyone could make meaningful improvements over the current lineup so it's a good question how important new designs are to the future of the company.
Spyderco uses sprint runs and collaborations to attract attention, but they still have perennial models like the Civilian or steel handle Police being in production for 25+ years, if GSM wants to just keep selling what Cold Steel has on offer right now that's fine by me.

It's pretty optimistic to think none of that will change when they came in, immediately moved the HQ, turned over most of the employees including designers, and sent the CS to hell. I agree it's not a huge loss if the models continue as is though.

 

[JeremiahWeaver09]

gsm brought back a couple discontinued cold steel models which was nice, i hope they continue to do that and re-release some pre-demko cold steels like the older voyager/vaqueros, the scimitar, ultra lock ak47 and recon

 

[rycen]

I’m sure that was already well underway before the sale.

 

[NorthernSouthpaw]

According to the completely clueless customer service rep I spoke to, it's $15 plus shipping for an "ambidextrous" clip that used to come free in the box?!?!?
Hey GSM!..... GFY!!!!

 

[DocJD]

There is nothing that could be done to improve Cold Steel because they've always been one of the highest quality knife manufacturers in the world.
That's the point, if the people working on Cold Steel designs suddenly have input on SOG, then SOG will improve in quality.
If the two companies are kept totally separate then nothing will change.

Probably the single most vigorous (and in the recent past,) productive designer for Cold Steel was Andrew Demko ,IMO .

My understanding is that Demko has split cleanly from GSM Outdoors . And may have taken a hit monetarily to do so ?

But the fact that AD bailed out speaks volumes .

I'm fairly sure that LCT , AD and probably everyone else involved had to sign binding non-discloser agreements , because their public statements have been muted at best .

I've seen very little from GSM to convince me that they care for anything but short term profits .

I hope I'm wrong !

 

[Blackfish775]

There is nothing that could be done to improve Cold Steel because they've always been one of the highest quality knife manufacturers in the world.

Nothing?! There's no room for improvement?

Even taking the "one of the highest quality knife manufacturers" thing as true, isn't the hallmark of a quality manufacturer one that constantly works to improve, incorporating new designs and technologies?

 

[DocJD]

the products will remain exactly the same.

I don't think it's that simple .

QC is ultimately the responsibility of the name brand seller , not the vendors .

 

[DocJD]

just keep selling what Cold Steel has on offer right now that's fine by me.

I agree it's not a huge loss if the models continue as is though.

Totally disagree !

The greatest strength of the Old Cold Steel was the continuing innovation over many years .

Unique, bold and often just plain weird creations , but at least different from most everything else on the market .

If that high level of creatively stops flowing , CS will become static .

It might survive , but definitely , NOT at all the same type of company .

I remember , eagerly awaiting the new CS catalog to see what they'd think of next .

That excitement is already gone , IMO . The newest stuff is greatly disappointing , IMO .

 

[Joshua J.]

Totally disagree !

The greatest strength of the Old Cold Steel was the continuing innovation over many years .

Unique, bold and often just plain weird creations , but at least different from most everything else on the market .

If that high level of creatively stops flowing , CS will become static .

It might survive , but definitely , NOT at all the same type of company .

I remember , eagerly awaiting the new CS catalog to see what they'd think of next .

That excitement is already gone , IMO . The newest stuff is greatly disappointing , IMO .

At this point the flagship Tanto series is over 30 years old and the design remains untouched, they've updated the blade steel, but you could pull any two polished Cold Steel tantos off the shelf from any decade in the history of the company and you would be hard pressed to say which knife is from what era.
Is that a problem?
No.

How long has the Buck 110 been in production?
Do Buck enthusiasts want the design changed?
HELL NO!

The Voyager line remained unchanged for nearly 20 years, and I do think that those designs had become stagnant by the late 2000's but that is relative to the rest of the industry moving to new innovative lock designs, and then in 2009 Lynn found Demko and his new lock.

Now that the Voyager and various other models have been updated, I believe the Tri-Ad lock has put many of the current Cold Steel designs into the same category of knife as the Buck 110.


I love seeing the latest stabby devices as much as anyone, but that's not what the bulk of this conversation is about, people are primarily concerned that base knife quality will drop, and I don't see any reason to think that would happen any time soon.

 

[DocJD]

reason to think that would happen any time soon.

So , you think the big move to 4034 steel on even their big choppers doesn't represent a "drop in base knife quality " ?

 

[strategy9]

Who's next? Buck was my first thought as well, they are going through some changes of their own that make it not so far-fetched.

Yeah, it is really disheartening to see more and more "Buck" knives made in China. Least they could've done as an iconic American brand, is create a subsidiary brand with a new name & logo for their China line. (ie. ZT vs. Kershaw)...
The S&K email I recieved, regarding shutting their doors after Buck said they will no longer deal with them in small batch exclusives, really sealed the deal for me though, as I will cherish the Bucks I own, but will no longer be purchasing any new ones, unless they change their current business model...

 

[Joshua J.]

So , you think the big move to 4034 steel on even their big choppers doesn't represent a "drop in base knife quality " ?

As long as they maintain the 3V series I don't think it matters what they put in the step down blades.
A lot of people will want the cheaper stainless option, and you don't want high carbon stainless in a large blade.
4034 "instead of" A1 is not good, but the existence of a 4034 variant is warranted.
The alloy is appropriate and it's not chinese steel, this is far from the worst option.

If people want inexpensive carbon steel we just got the 1090 Facon and 1055 Woodsman's Sax and Viking Sax, the Woodsman's Sax in particular is one of the best looking large blades I've ever seen, I'd take the Sax over a Trailmaster any day.

 

[GIRLYmann]

 

[DocJD]

3V series

The problem with the new 3V stuff is that it is ridiculously expensive , very unlike the Old CS high value .

This is nothing like the Old CS , which was always high value / performance for price level .

Edit : Also , much of the new 3V seems to be mostly unavailable "vaporware" and /or not competitively priced .

One of the most important hallmarks of the Old CS was the high value / low cost for a given level of performance .

That is largely GONE now .

 

[DocJD]

you don't want high carbon

Oh , YES I do ! I really don't want a stainless at all in a large , long blade chopper , machete , or sword .

I want maximum toughness at a reasonable cost , that does NOT usually equate to anything stainless , IMO and experience .

I could be wrong , I'm no expert on metallurgy . I have only my own experience to go by .

 

[Coloradoknifenut]

Name one single thing they did to "improve" Cold Steel ?

Keeping things in stick lol