Gso-4.7

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Technically? I would call it a "prepayment build to order"... business system.. which is what it is..

I do this for some of my China and non established customers.. for regular return customers, I do a conventional PO net 30.. which is the most popular business payment system where you build t he customer's product first then bill them. But that's reserved for corporate to corporate accounts.. so we are not applicable..
 
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mlmcasual said:
Pre Ordering as per SK is a prepayment up front done so in a Specific Time window.. once that window closes, the up front money from the prepayment (pre purchases aka "preorders") is allotted towards buying the materials. Since at the end of the window, SK knows exactly how much sales it has it can know exactly how much to buy without going over or under demand. It's a really slick system actually. Normally im not a fan of up front money but considering it's a targeted build built to order, it's fair and good for a small company. Before SKs preorder system, SK had to wayyyy under produce a given model which led to an effective "lottery" system of random sales that sold out in minutes.. You think long wait times are frustrating? try a lottery system you could never win.. (been there done that).. Preorder is still the fairest system imo.
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just want to add my 2 cents here... The way I remember it happened is this.

First, there was the Starter Campaign. Everyone who participated had free upgrades plus a discount based on the amount of the order. When the Starter finished, many people still wanted to place orders, so Survive! kept the orders opened - this became the Preorder - still free upgrades but no other discount. Later on, there were a few models (i'm aware of the 4.7 in CPM154) that were offered at Presale - no free upgrades. The presale happened just before the model went into production (if I remember correctly). I'm currently patiently waiting on 3 orders: one Starter, one Preorder and one Presale :). I hope this info helps..

Later edit: oh yeah, and all three options required full payment at the time of the order...

Cheers,
C
 
mlmcasual said:
I have actually pondered a solution to the wait anxiety.... it is this,

Just order one of each model before pre-ordering closes.. Then once time catches up.. I will be getting a knife every month.. it will be like a knife of the month club..
:).
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This is truly genius!

CataD said:
just want to add my 2 cents here... The way I remember it happened is this.

First, there was the Starter Campaign. Everyone who participated had free upgrades plus a discount based on the amount of the order. When the Starter finished, many people still wanted to place orders, so Survive! kept the orders opened - this became the Preorder - still free upgrades but no other discount. Later on, there were a few models (i'm aware of the 4.7 in CPM154) that were offered at Presale - no free upgrades. The presale happened just before the model went into production (if I remember correctly). I'm currently patiently waiting on 3 orders: one Starter, one Preorder and one Presale :). I hope this info helps..

Cheers,
C
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That's how I remember it. Nice summary!
 
Thank you all for helping me understand their terminology in their chronological order :thumbup:
 
ElConquistador said:
For me the above quote with the preceding explanation is reasonable and something I could live with. The frustrating thing for me is that I have been led on for four months with, at best, overly optimistic ship dates. I get having a delay or two but in early December you guys said these would be out by Christmas. That's four months!!

At this point I feel like I've been jerked around. Fool me once...
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Firstly let me say that none of us are trying to fool you or jerk you around. If you've felt that way at all, then please accept my humblest apology. Secondly, you're right, those dates were obviously overly optimistic, best case scenario guesses. That is squarely my fault. A lot of these first new production models needed a lot of very time consuming hand work, something I hadn't anticipated. Setting up and getting the first runs of sheaths for each model so far also took a bit longer than I anticipated. I'm still learning to balance my ambitions and wanting to make people happy against what I can physically accomplish in a day. Ellie and I have talked about it at length and from here on out we won't list any type of estimates or rough guesses on production.
 
SURVIVE! said:
Firstly let me say that none of us are trying to fool you or jerk you around. If you've felt that way at all, then please accept my humblest apology. Secondly, you're right, those dates were obviously overly optimistic, best case scenario guesses. That is squarely my fault. A lot of these first new production models needed a lot of very time consuming hand work, something I hadn't anticipated. Setting up and getting the first runs of sheaths for each model so far also took a bit longer than I anticipated. I'm still learning to balance my ambitions and wanting to make people happy against what I can physically accomplish in a day. Ellie and I have talked about it at length and from here on out we won't list any type of estimates or rough guesses on production.
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Please make sure you balance the frustration that some people have with the number of people that are ridiculously pleased with what we're getting from you guys. In my opinion the starter program was genius. I had absolutely given up on getting the knives I wanted through the store before and was only looking on the secondary market. It's totally worth the wait for me to know that I will be getting the knives I want without having to obsessively check the website for availability. I think there were more than enough redundant statements that all timeframes were only estimates.

Personally, I'd love it if you guys would blow off this knife thing for a couple weeks and go on a honeymoon. We'd still be here when you got back, promise. The only thing that I could see damaging the way things are going is for you guys to get burned out.

Back to the 4.7... mostly I hope to get one soon so I don't slip up and start actually liking the choil on my 5.1!
 
Grogimus,
I agree 100% with your comment! It's as if you read my mind. I'm betting a large majority of us actually feel the exact way.
 
Standard78 said:
Grogimus,
I agree 100% with your comment! It's as if you read my mind. I'm betting a large majority of us actually feel the exact way.
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As if!

r5jZMIDl.jpg
 
Ellie shouldn't have to come here so much to defend her Self and Guy. Anger and anxiety are introspective choices and - both coincidentally and ironically - born from Being raised up through Existentialism. "Men are like steel. When they lose their temper, they lose their worth." - Chuck Norris

"I know that the wait can be hard, especially these days, in a world where the pace is always more and faster. I should have had the good sense to start my business in the 1800's." Well said, Guy, well said.
 
SURVIVE! said:
Firstly let me say that none of us are trying to fool you or jerk you around. If you've felt that way at all, then please accept my humblest apology. Secondly, you're right, those dates were obviously overly optimistic, best case scenario guesses. That is squarely my fault. A lot of these first new production models needed a lot of very time consuming hand work, something I hadn't anticipated. Setting up and getting the first runs of sheaths for each model so far also took a bit longer than I anticipated. I'm still learning to balance my ambitions and wanting to make people happy against what I can physically accomplish in a day. Ellie and I have talked about it at length and from here on out we won't list any type of estimates or rough guesses on production.
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Thank you for that explanation, it helps me understand your position. I'm not trying to be accusatory or cause you grief. From the beginning it was understood that there was not guaranteed delivery date but I do look forward to getting and using the 4.7. The repeated build up and let down is what had me frustrated.

I think that not offering estimates in the future is the way to go. Thanks again.
 
Really interesting discussion going on here...all centered around an excellent, popular product made by good, passionate people. I would make the following observations...rapidly scaling any company is difficult and challenges include: (1) getting the right people to produce/manage/interface with various constituents, (2) optimizing and evolving operational processes, (3) improving financial/management reporting (4) balancing the internal and external capital(equity/debt) to fund all of the preceding items.

If you look at some of the largest and fastest growing tech companies have had the same challenges and had to lean on external advisors and raise capital to get to where they wanted.

Much love and respect to all involved here. People wouldn't be commenting if they didn't care. [emoji846] Maybe we can get back to talking about knives and cutting stuff...




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Well said, Steve.

In the spirit of your final statement: I'm selfishly happy the team is taking a week off of Monday sales. I'm hoping many of us are not too far behind Lars in getting our 4.7's this month!
 
Steve in SoCal said:
Maybe we can get back to talking about knives and cutting stuff...




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Nailed it!
I actually stopped checking in as much around here because the constant questioning on orders and bickering about their business choices got old really quick.
 
I completely agree that far too much time is spent by Ellie and Guy defending their process. I'm over it, honestly. While I appreciate the customer service aspect, many of the questions have been asked/answered repeatedly... The answers are not hard to find.

In defense of Survive:

1) I think it is best for forecasts not to be made by Survive... Not even best guesses. It's pretty rare for a small company to hold true go their production quality and not cut corners. "You can have quality, speed, and cheap... Pick 2." That the product continues to improve and innovate is both remarkable and admirable. For this, I am grateful.

2) I do think any attention to selling seconds is premature until existing orders are filled. I'd personally like to see the starters/preorders go out before any more seconds... But that's not my call.

3) I think "Monday sales" of new models are premature as well. If the 4.7 starters and preorders are not filled, I hope we don't see any of them on the site.

That anyone expects to jump to the front of the line, as a newcomer, is presumptuous and laughable. Johnny Come Lately can wait his turn. Pay your dues, kid. Good things come to those who wait... And in the case of these knives, it's always worth the wait.

Cheers!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
forte_defense said:
I completely agree that far too much time is spent by Ellie and Guy defending their process. I'm over it, honestly. While I appreciate the customer service aspect, many of the questions have been asked/answered repeatedly... The answers are not hard to find.

In defense of Survive:

1) I think it is best for forecasts not to be made by Survive... Not even best guesses. It's pretty rare for a small company to hold true go their production quality and not cut corners. "You can have quality, speed, and cheap... Pick 2." That the product continues to improve and innovate is both remarkable and admirable. For this, I am grateful.

2) I do think any attention to selling seconds is premature until existing orders are filled. I'd personally like to see the starters/preorders go out before any more seconds... But that's not my call.

3) I think "Monday sales" of new models are premature as well. If the 4.7 starters and preorders are not filled, I hope we don't see any of them on the site.

That anyone expects to jump to the front of the line, as a newcomer, is presumptuous and laughable. Johnny Come Lately can wait his turn. Pay your dues, kid. Good things come to those who wait... And in the case of these knives, it's always worth the wait.

Cheers!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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This is all great from a buyers view. But, in order for Guy and Ellie to own a bit of their own market, they need to sell these seconds up front. Otherwise their own customers would flood the market and lower the value of the seconds that that need to be sold..IMO
I am a fan of their plan. Keep on working hard,Survive!
Thank You,
Al
 
F_D,

I am one of those Johnny Come (very) Lately types but I do agree with the majority of your sentiment.

However this is NOT what I agree with: "3) I think "Monday sales" of new models are premature as well. If the 4.7 starters and preorders are not filled, I hope we don't see any of them on the site."

Somehow they (Survive!) are ending up with blades that do not pass their very strict QC. For that reason, they best not sit on $$$$$ (I guess at least 5 figures) of idle inventory which can be turned into cash. After all, a steady cashflow is vital to their survival specially if the pre-production orders slow down (for a number of reasons)

As far as seconds go, perhaps Survive has one of the most honest policies when it comes to 2nds, but I very much doubt that they are selling perfect blades as 2nds just for the heck of it (not that you ever insinuated that) After all said and done, there are reasons as to why some of those blades are marked as 2nds and those who believe and trust in the fastidiousness of Guy and would like to receive 1sts as ordered, will NOT be happy with the blemished 2nds (as trivial as some of that blemish may be).

Just my 2Cs.
 
azwelke said:
This is all great from a buyers view. But, in order for Guy and Ellie to own a bit of their own market, they need to sell these seconds up front. Otherwise their own customers would flood the market and lower the value of the seconds that that need to be sold..IMO
I am a fan of their plan. Keep on working hard,Survive!
Thank You,
Al
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I agree with what you say with the exception that Survive!'s own customers are turning around and selling those 2nds for markups ranging from 25% up to 50% (and in some cases even more on eBay) As benevolent and blue collar as the Seiferd's may be, they will have to protect their own turf or else they will be committing business suicide. I wish that people who look at things from the demand side of the fence try to understand as to how the supply side of things looks too!
 
azwelke said:
This is all great from a buyers view. But, in order for Guy and Ellie to own a bit of their own market, they need to sell these seconds up front. Otherwise their own customers would flood the market and lower the value of the seconds that that need to be sold..IMO
I am a fan of their plan. Keep on working hard,Survive!
Thank You,
Al
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I agree. Honestly, the way that Guy and Ellie are doing thing now is working, although there have certainly been unexpected delays. I'm getting kind of tired of people getting on here to explain just how they think the people of SURVIVE! should run their company. Just a note, SURVIVE! is still a business that needs to make money. That means perhaps selling inventory rather than putting it on a shelf in order to mollify a few angry customers.
 
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