Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

[Fodderwing]

Ditto! Speedy healing and here's to a bionic shoulder that never aches!

Dwight, I'm sure there will be many thoughts and prayers heading your way may peace and a quick recovery be with you

Good luck with your surgery my friend .That should keep you out of trouble for a little while Dwight

Thank you my friends for the kind words and wishes.

 

[rockman0]

I hope it's not that bad Dave, I had a knife shipped from France a year or more back and it got here in 7 or 8 days. I'm hoping it's enroute and they just didn't update tracking.

 

[Half/Stop]

Shoulder surgery coming up here in a few days.

Good luck on your surgery and a speedy recovery Dwight!

 

[Prester John]

For Tuesday:

 

[5K Qs]

Good Sunday to all you Guardians! My Rosewood Bigun!

...
But the swayback will always be my choice. View attachment 1049181

I will join Dwight and Ron today with the big Red
View attachment 1049215

Impressive wood lambsfoots, Ron & Dwight & Dave! I think my rosewood model is still my favorite.

...
I was in a quandary as to the wood. Then I was thinking that maybe I had purchased that knife off of the exchange and maybe it was @mrknife who sold it to me. But then I wasn't certain if it was ironwood or something else. As I am contemplating all of this I prepare to post and lo and behold - The very last post I am staring at - see above post (it is quoted down below). How's that for coincidence?

I wish you well with the procedure Gary.

Pretty amazing coincidence, or is it simply Grand Design???
Thanks for the well wishes, Dwight, and same to you for the shoulder surgery!

"Read regularly, post sporadically - but prodigiously"! Your posts are always enjoyable my friend Does your wife think you're listening?!
...
Thanks GT, they're never far from my thoughts Interesting thought GT, the 'ergomomics' links in the thread archive are worth referring to, particularly as some of the finer posts are written by @Cambertree - Chin The Left-Handed

That is a great shot of Black Jack GT, I almost never take pile side pics, but you seem to take quite a few

Gary, the very best of luck with the surgery my friend, I'm sure that all your fellow Guardians will have you in their hearts
...

Thanks for the editorial comment on my "forum style", Jack.
Good suggestion about checking the index for "ergonomics". For me, I like the swayback on a lambsfoot because I do almost exclusively pull cuts, and the bulge behind the direction I'm moving my hand gives me a more secure feel using the knife.
I try to take both mark and pile side shots, both closed and open. I like to have at least those 4 photos of each of my knives "on file."
Thanks for the kind words about Guardians support for my eye procedures!

...
Best wishes for a successful surgery.

My dad is 88, too!
Mom is 85, and still carries groceries up her 4th floor walk-up loft. (old people are like sharks...have to keep moving )
I hope everyone is having a pleasant weekend. It was 37 degrees yesterday morning, and got up to 76 by late afternoon. Mom's coming to visit next week, and when she asked what weather to pack for, I told her, "Wear layers."

I think an ironwood lambsfoot would be a nice addition to my set.

Thanks for the medical good wishes, Rachel. Congrats to your aging parents for making it that far; 20 more years for me to reach high 80s seems a daunting task!
I like your trio of lambsfoots very much!

5K Qs Gary best of luck with your cataract surgery! I had both of mine done November 2016. It was a life changer for me!
...

Thanks for the encouraging words, Ron! I may send you a PM asking some questions about your experiences if I'm "computer capable" later this week.

...
I like that saying GT. However I try to avoid all bad company (I often try to avoid just all company ) so I wouldn't know if it was good for the soul or not .
My camera is a small point and shoot Nikon A10. 16.1MP. It's not that good but does the job I want it for. For those shots I focus on the knife, half depress the shutter then keeping the shutter half depressed point the camera at whatever background feature I want, then take the picture. My older Kodak had the same function so maybe it's a standard feature on all digi cameras?
Good look with the cataract surgery . You may see a change in your vision. when I had my cataract done everything looked a lot whiter, and the sky was 'extra-blue'

Avoiding ALL company seems an extreme approach to staying away from bad company, David!
Thanks for the photo hint; I'll have to see if my point&shoot has similar capabilities.
Thanks also for the surgery good wishes!

He took it like a champ. Cardboard is no match for RALF. I think he even showed off a little!

Good to hear, Jeff!

Betty is feeling like she's back at home in Sheffield, with the weather like it is.

Bam-ba-Lamb!!

They seem to have changed the name from southern to summer tanager. My Guide to American Wildlife is pretty old. I read in something that the sumtans range as far as southern WI, so I don't see why they couldn't get to southern MI. Anyway, my mystery bird seems to have left the premises.

I lived in Sendai for a while, the main city of Miyagi prefecture in the northeast of the main island. The imperishability of the local miso was a bit of a local boast. Foreigners speculated that the perceived local fondness for salt might have explained the imperishability of the local miso.
Not a very interesting story, I guess.

Sorry to hear about your cataract. I've got one started that I'm going to try to reverse by decreasing alcohol and increasing grapefruit and avocados.

And of course the lambsfoot was the blade of choice among early motorists in the Tohoku region.

Thanks for the interesting info about terminology changes for tanagers, for the background info about the miso post, for the cataract info, and for including some knife content!

Lambsfoot for me this week is Cracker Jack. Here he is:


- GT

 

[Fodderwing]

Good luck on your surgery and a speedy recovery Dwight

Thank you Ron.

Thanks for the well wishes, Dwight, and same to you for the shoulder surgery!

Thank you Gary and Cracker Jack is looking hale.

 

[Half/Stop]

Impressive wood lambsfoots, Ron & Dwight & Dave! I think my rosewood model is still my favorite.

Thanks Gary!

 

[flatblackcapo]

Sunshine is always welcome Kevin, especially bouncing off a well-loved Lambsfoot

The sun decided to peek out for a couple minutes today and went right back to hiding behind the clouds. The forecast says more rain tomorrow too. I know, I know, a bit like telling Dave dc50 that it's cold when it is 40*F haha

Bam-ba-Lamb!!

 

[dc50]

The sun decided to peek out for a couple minutes today and went right back to hiding behind the clouds. The forecast says more rain tomorrow too. I know, I know, a bit like telling Dave dc50 that it's cold when it is 40*F haha

haha, 40°F and rain Kevin I saved a Canada Dry for you, notice no rain.

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks, Jack, quite the place lots and lots of history right there. Must be a high crime area with the razor wire on the roof as well as bars on the windows.

That's just to keep Ashley from running off and getting a better paid job Dave!

I know my attendance has been spotty, but so far, my most carried knife in 2019 is my 2018 Guardians Lambsfoot.
View attachment 1050171 View attachment 1050173

View attachment 1050174 View attachment 1050175 View attachment 1050172

Good to see you here Mike, and with a great bunch of pics Nice to hear that knife stuck in your pocket

Thanks Jack, for this fantastic picture!!!

Thanks for the picture Jack. I've read a few times that Mr. Ablett made quality knives that could punch above their price range. A massive loss to not only Sheffield but the knife community as a whole and it is a sad disservice that many are aware of him. However, like a true artist, his passion kept him going until the very end. It is a fate that I'm sure most would not mind at the very least.

A pleasure gents, Trevor went very quickly after that photo was taken, he worked almost until the end

For Tuesday:

Looking good, as ever, Vince

Thanks for the editorial comment on my "forum style", Jack.
Good suggestion about checking the index for "ergonomics". For me, I like the swayback on a lambsfoot because I do almost exclusively pull cuts, and the bulge behind the direction I'm moving my hand gives me a more secure feel using the knife.
I try to take both mark and pile side shots, both closed and open. I like to have at least those 4 photos of each of my knives "on file."
Thanks for the kind words about Guardians support for my eye procedures!

...

Lambsfoot for me this week is Cracker Jack. Here he is:
View attachment 1050242

I think the the thread index Greg @WhittlinAway set up is a great asset, I do hope we're going to see a little more of him in 2019 I rarely take pile-side shots, and should try and correct that. Cracking pic of Cracker Jack GT

The sun decided to peek out for a couple minutes today and went right back to hiding behind the clouds. The forecast says more rain tomorrow too. I know, I know, a bit like telling Dave dc50 that it's cold when it is 40*F haha

Hope you get some sunshine soon pal

Morning folks, insomnia had me up at 4.30am, so I thought I might as well start my day. Got these two into my pockets. Good luck with your surgery Fodderwing , got to get you right for the 2019 Guardians Lambsfoot! Have a great day folks

 

[dc50]

That's just to keep Ashley from running off and getting a better paid job Dave!

Poor kid, if he likes the job, then great! I think if you like who you are working for and enjoy your job then be wary of greener pastures.

 

[SIG96]

Poor kid, if he likes the job, then great! I think if you like who you are working for and enjoy your job then be wary of greener pastures.

Aye, words to remember when the green monster comes knocking.

 

[Jack Black]

Poor kid, if he likes the job, then great! I think if you like who you are working for and enjoy your job then be wary of greener pastures.

He does like the job, and it's nice to see his enthusiasm, and the pride he takes in doing a good job They have a nice set-up at Wright's, a small firm, but everyone seems to get on very well. Ashley's dad, Michael, is a great guy too

 

[dc50]

He does like the job, and it's nice to see his enthusiasm, and the pride he takes in doing a good job They have a nice set-up at Wright's, a small firm, but everyone seems to get on very well. Ashley's dad, Michael, is a great guy too

Awesome! When I was a young Meat dept Manager I was working for a great family in an independent grocery store loved the job and the folks. Alas, a corporate
chain came and offered them a fair dollar to sell out. If they didn't sell to them they threatened to build up the street.
Needless to say, myself and most of the staff were eventually let go by head office.

 

[Jack Black]

Oldest US-made Lambsfoot or Forgery?

In the calm waters between Christmas and New Year, I enjoyed a very interesting private conversation with two of our fellow Guardians, flatblackcapo and @Leslie Tomville , who had both contacted me, separately, regarding a certain knife which was listed on the bay (that's the one near the Big River @donn ). The sale was still going on at the time, so we couldn't bring the conversation here then, but with the permission of Kevin and Leslie, I thought some of you folks might be interested in this

I was first contacted by Kevin via PM, who sent me a link to the listing of a 'Vintage Winchester Lambsfoot'. Here are the seller's pics:

Now, we've spent a lot of time looking for a US-made Lambsfoot, so this was potentially big news, but my immediate reaction was that the knife had in fact been made by Joseph Rodgers & Sons of Sheffield. I initially assumed the covers were synthetic, placing it in the 60's or 70's, but if they're horn covers, they'd be earlier, and fit better with the blade etches, so maybe 30's, like the seller described. I was still thinking of the latter period though, when Sheffield had more than one dubious visitor associated with sharp practice in the Transatlantic cutlery trade.

I had used a Rodgers catalogue as a back-ground for a pic posted just a few weeks earlier, and have a lot of Rodgers knives.

Another Rodgers knife previously owned by @glennbad:

Here's the 'Hand Forged' etch on the 'Winchester' knife compared to the one on another Rodgers knife I own:

I know little about Winchester knives, but this really didn't look like any of their knives I'd seen before, and of course it was decidedly odd that they'd use a Lambsfoot pattern, particularly as one of these knives hadn't turned up before. I checked the 2860 pattern number, and it appeared to relate to a 3 1/4" inch Sleeveboard pattern with stag covers. Furthermore, it looked like that number had been cold-stamped on the ebay knife blade. Unfortunately, it was hard to see if the Winchester stamps had been stamped in similar fashion, though they're certainly high enough on the tangs to have been added later without disassembling the original knife.

Kevin found it strange the knife was marked 'Made in the USA', and also wondered if it was a 'parts knife'. I didn't think it was, apart from the Winchester markings, it looks exactly like a stock Rodgers pattern. While I didn't think the knife was valuable, it certainly had curiosity value, and I'd have loved a closer look at those tang-stamps.

The Winchester brand certainly has a convoluted history, and I noted that Bernard Levine said that, long after Winchester ceased to produce their own knives, their German and French distribution agents had Winchester-branded knives made up under contract for distribution within their domestic markets. Rodgers certainly did work for other cutlers, but why would a genuine Winchester agent want to put their mark on a knife, which was so obviously a Rodgers pattern, and a Lambsfoot at that. Presumably, they would have had existing Winchester patterns produced - and they'd have got the pattern number right!

I speculated on why anyone would want to fake this knife. Presumably, any Winchester collector would have spotted it immediately, as would anyone with only a passing knowledge of Sheffield knives, and apart from its interest-value as a fake, it's really a pretty ordinary knife. I wondered if the forger had originally had other plans for the knife, was practicing their technique, or thought they could get a higher price for a Winchester than a Rodgers from that period? But having Winchester stamps made up seems a lot of trouble to go to, unless this knife was simply one of many cheap knives stamped up by the same forger. Have any similar forgeries previously come to light?

While me and Kevin were speculating about the knife, and the ebay price was climing to the $84 it eventually went for, Leslie got in touch to also let me know about the 'Winchester' Lambsfoot, and I recounted my conversation with Kevin. Leslie also did some research about the German-made Winchesters, and opined that this could perhaps be the source of the knife. There was also the possibility that Rodgers paid to use the Winchester name, and made the knife on license. I doubt that though, particularly without the involvement of a third party, they were well in their decline by that point, and a short-minded, skin-flinted company, but they did have an excellent name, both in Europe and America. If Winchester's European agents commissioned the knife, why cold-stamp the pattern number - possibly it was a sample, but why is the pattern number wrong, and why is the knife not better made?

Leslie asked if I thought Joseph Rodgers would have stamped the knife with the Winchester marks, including 'Made in the USA', or if I thought that this was done after manufacture. While I believe this knife is a fake, I certainly do not discount the possibility that Sheffield cutlers were involved, fake stamps have been put on knives and razors in Sheffield for hundreds of years, and during the 1970's, when Rodgers were owned by Imperial, they assembled parts, made in the US by Camillus, and stamped the knives 'Made in England'. So, I don't think it would have been a 'moral' issue, but that still doesn't mean Rodgers were involved of course, nor even any of their out-workers. I further doubt whether anyone in Sheffield would have had the knowledge or wherewithal to start faking Winchester knives, on their own, but it's certainly the case that, even today, you can easily get tang-stamps made up inexpensively, with whatever you want on them, in Sheffield. A travelling American cutlery enthusiast of the type that used to visit Sheffield in the 70's could perhaps have accomplished it, or a British collector with some knowledge of the Winchester mark. However, why select a pattern Winchester were not associated with, and err further with a false pattern number? If these were faked in Sheffield in this way, presumably a few of them would have been made, but none seem to have turned up apart from this one. Could it be that someone had got hold of a Winchester stamp, perhaps in Europe, and just used it on whatever inexpensive knives they could find? But this knife could have been faked anywhere.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone we know ever comes across this knife, it'd be great to have a proper look at those tang-stamps. Lots of speculation, so what do you think folks? Thanks to Kevin and Leslie for bringing this knife to my attention, and for the great chat

Edit - I have to say, looking at those Winchester stamps again, I do think they look suspicious.

 

[Jack Black]

Awesome! When I was a young Meat dept Manager I was working for a great family in an independent grocery store loved the job and the folks. Alas, a corporate
chain came and offered them a fair dollar to sell out. If they didn't sell to them they threatened to build up the street.
Needless to say, myself and most of the staff were eventually let go by head office.

That's rotten Who you work for, and with, makes a huge difference doesn't it? I work for a right miserable old git, but he doesn't work me too hard these days

 

[Jack Black]

I received this yesterday, hot off the Lulu press, the newly published companion volume to Geoff Tweedale's classic reference work on the Sheffield cutlery manufacturers. Geoff has been working on this work on the Sheffield tool manufacturers for a few years now, and it is equally well-researched - more than 600 pages and thousands of illustrations and photographs. I'm looking forward to reading it, and am sure it'll be an invaluable reference work

 

[Half/Stop]

Oldest US-made Lambsfoot or Forgery?

In the calm waters between Christmas and New Year, I enjoyed a very interesting private conversation with two of our fellow Guardians, flatblackcapo and @Leslie Tomville , who had both contacted me, separately, regarding a certain knife which was listed on the bay (that's the one near the Big River @donn ). The sale was still going on at the time, so we couldn't bring the conversation here then, but with the permission of Kevin and Leslie, I thought some of you folks might be interested in this

I was first contacted by Kevin via PM, who sent me a link to the listing of a 'Vintage Winchester Lambsfoot'. Here are the seller's pics:

Now, we've spent a lot of time looking for a US-made Lambsfoot, so this was potentially big news, but my immediate reaction was that the knife had in fact been made by Joseph Rodgers & Sons of Sheffield. I initially assumed the covers were synthetic, placing it in the 60's or 70's, but if they're horn covers, they'd be earlier, and fit better with the blade etches, so maybe 30's, like the seller described. I was still thinking of the latter period though, when Sheffield had more than one dubious visitor associated with sharp practice in the Transatlantic cutlery trade.

I had used a Rodgers catalogue as a back-ground for a pic posted just a few weeks earlier, and have a lot of Rodgers knives.

Another Rodgers knife previously owned by @glennbad:

Here's the 'Hand Forged' etch on the 'Winchester' knife compared to the one on another Rodgers knife I own:

I know little about Winchester knives, but this really didn't look like any of their knives I'd seen before, and of course it was decidedly odd that they'd use a Lambsfoot pattern, particularly as one of these knives hadn't turned up before. I checked the 2860 pattern number, and it appeared to relate to a 3 1/4" inch Sleeveboard pattern with stag covers. Furthermore, it looked like that number had been cold-stamped on the ebay knife blade. Unfortunately, it was hard to see if the Winchester stamps had been stamped in similar fashion, though they're certainly high enough on the tangs to have been added later without disassembling the original knife.

Kevin found it strange the knife was marked 'Made in the USA', and also wondered if it was a 'parts knife'. I didn't think it was, apart from the Winchester markings, it looks exactly like a stock Rodgers pattern. While I didn't think the knife was valuable, it certainly had curiosity value, and I'd have loved a closer look at those tang-stamps.

The Winchester brand certainly has a convoluted history, and I noted that Bernard Levine said that, long after Winchester ceased to produce their own knives, their German and French distribution agents had Winchester-branded knives made up under contract for distribution within their domestic markets. Rodgers certainly did work for other cutlers, but why would a genuine Winchester agent want to put their mark on a knife, which was so obviously a Rodgers pattern, and a Lambsfoot at that. Presumably, they would have had existing Winchester patterns produced - and they'd have got the pattern number right!

I speculated on why anyone would want to fake this knife. Presumably, any Winchester collector would have spotted it immediately, as would anyone with only a passing knowledge of Sheffield knives, and apart from its interest-value as a fake, it's really a pretty ordinary knife. I wondered if the forger had originally had other plans for the knife, was practicing their technique, or thought they could get a higher price for a Winchester than a Rodgers from that period? But having Winchester stamps made up seems a lot of trouble to go to, unless this knife was simply one of many cheap knives stamped up by the same forger. Have any similar forgeries previously come to light?

While me and Kevin were speculating about the knife, and the ebay price was climing to the $84 it eventually went for, Leslie got in touch to also let me know about the 'Winchester' Lambsfoot, and I recounted my conversation with Kevin. Leslie also did some research about the German-made Winchesters, and opined that this could perhaps be the source of the knife. There was also the possibility that Rodgers paid to use the Winchester name, and made the knife on license. I doubt that though, particularly without the involvement of a third party, they were well in their decline by that point, and a short-minded, skin-flinted company, but they did have an excellent name, both in Europe and America. If Winchester's European agents commissioned the knife, why cold-stamp the pattern number - possibly it was a sample, but why is the pattern number wrong, and why is the knife not better made?

Leslie asked if I thought Joseph Rodgers would have stamped the knife with the Winchester marks, including 'Made in the USA', or if I thought that this was done after manufacture. While I believe this knife is a fake, I certainly do not discount the possibility that Sheffield cutlers were involved, fake stamps have been put on knives and razors in Sheffield for hundreds of years, and during the 1970's, when Rodgers were owned by Imperial, they assembled parts, made in the US by Camillus, and stamped the knives 'Made in England'. So, I don't think it would have been a 'moral' issue, but that still doesn't mean Rodgers were involved of course, nor even any of their out-workers. I further doubt whether anyone in Sheffield would have had the knowledge or wherewithal to start faking Winchester knives, on their own, but it's certainly the case that, even today, you can easily get tang-stamps made up inexpensively, with whatever you want on them, in Sheffield. A travelling American cutlery enthusiast of the type that used to visit Sheffield in the 70's could perhaps have accomplished it, or a British collector with some knowledge of the Winchester mark. However, why select a pattern Winchester were not associated with, and err further with a false pattern number? If these were faked in Sheffield in this way, presumably a few of them would have been made, but none seem to have turned up apart from this one. Could it be that someone had got hold of a Winchester stamp, perhaps in Europe, and just used it on whatever inexpensive knives they could find? But this knife could have been faked anywhere.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone we know ever comes across this knife, it'd be great to have a proper look at those tang-stamps. Lots of speculation, so what do you think folks? Thanks to Kevin and Leslie for bringing this knife to my attention, and for the great chat

Edit - I have to say, looking at those Winchester stamps again, I do think they look suspicious.

A very interesting discovery indeed! I have seen many Winchester Lambsfoot knives with the checkerboard covers on the big auction site. They are usual red or blue with white checkered covers. I assumed they were synthetic possibly even celluloid. I always assumed they were contracted from some English manufacturers. Looking at the tang stamps they do look suspicious. Hopefully someone here can come up with the true story on this knife.

Speaking of contract knives, I’m giving this one some pocket time today.

 

[Jack Black]

A very interesting discovery indeed! I have seen many Winchester Lambsfoot knives with the checkerboard covers on the big auction site. They are usual red or blue with white checkered covers. I assumed they were synthetic possibly even celluloid. I always assumed they were contracted from some English manufacturers. Looking at the tang stamps they do look suspicious. Hopefully someone here can come up with the true story on this knife.

Speaking of contract knives, I’m giving this one some pocket time today.

Really Ron, that's very interesting? I would love to see one, I wonder what the story is behind them, and if Jim Taylor ever used the Winchester mark?

I noticed you were having a change in the EDC thread my friend

 

[Half/Stop]

Double post!