Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

Jack could you expound on the "liver and draw" system?

It stands for 'Deliver and draw' Dwight. The smaller cutlers were commissioned by the large firms to make the knives. Depending on their size, they might be issued with a tang-stamp and pattern tools, or they might be issued with stamped blades, and even other parts of the knife. When the knives were made, the small cutlers delivered them to the large firm, and drew their pay. The piece-work rates were terrible, knives might be rejected, and from the mid 18th century onwards, the big firms demanded 13 knives (and later 14) to the dozen. I remember a young cutler, still working, who told me how he remembered, as a child, his mother and father, who I also knew, dragging boxes of knives (in parts) through the snow on Christmas Eve, and they were happy to get the work. That was in Sheffield, in the 1980's.
 
Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays this knifenut from the swift completion of his appointed check of the days mail!" I"ll be back!
Only a couple of inches today...cold 13 degrees F. Preston
IMG_0890.JPG
 
It stands for 'Deliver and draw' Dwight. The smaller cutlers were commissioned by the large firms to make the knives. Depending on their size, they might be issued with a tang-stamp and pattern tools, or they might be issued with stamped blades, and even other parts of the knife. When the knives were made, the small cutlers delivered them to the large firm, and drew their pay. The piece-work rates were terrible, knives might be rejected, and from the mid 18th century onwards, the big firms demanded 13 knives (and later 14) to the dozen. I remember a young cutler, still working, who told me how he remembered, as a child, his mother and father, who I also knew, dragging boxes of knives (in parts) through the snow on Christmas Eve, and they were happy to get the work. That was in Sheffield, in the 1980's.
Thanks for the explanation, Jack. So, if I were to buy a knife stamped "______ Cutlery Co, Sheffield" It could have been made by any number of small shop subcontractors? It seems like there would be a lot of inconsistency in the quality. I mean, even if there is quality control as to the cutlery company accepting or rejecting knives, having them made by different cutlers, using different equipment it seems like there would be a lot of variety in the end result.
 
Thank you Jack for the descriptive response. Very interesting and poignant as well.

You're very welcome Dwight :thumbsup:

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays this knifenut from the swift completion of his appointed check of the days mail!" I"ll be back!
Only a couple of inches today...cold 13 degrees F. Preston
IMG_0890.JPG

Stay warm Preston, nice pic there :thumbsup:

Thanks for the explanation, Jack. So, if I were to buy a knife stamped "______ Cutlery Co, Sheffield" It could have been made by any number of small shop subcontractors? It seems like there would be a lot of inconsistency in the quality. I mean, even if there is quality control as to the cutlery company accepting or rejecting knives, having them made by different cutlers, using different equipment it seems like there would be a lot of variety in the end result.

Yes, it could have been made by any number of men or small firms, and even with some quality control at the receiving factory, the style and quality of manufacture will vary depending on the maker (or more likely, makers). The tang-stamps might also vary, because some of the same small firms worked for the larger firms for years. That's one of the reasons dating Sheffield knives can be so difficult. I have to say that I've never seen a copy of Goins, but from the references that turn up on here, I wouldn't spend the cost of lunch on a copy. The names of different Sheffield firms have passed from owner to owner, with several names often being run in tandem. Even a newer company like Wright's (dating from only 1947) has had lots of different owners, at least two different factories, many different cutlers, and lots of changes in the style of production. Furthermore, like all the other Sheffield firms, they've always made lots of knives for numerous other Sheffield firms, as well as supplying blades; John Petty, Joseph Rodgers, Needham, Slater, TEW, to name just a few.

I carry a lambsfoot because — I’ve done my jury duty! (I had to go to the courthouse with empty pockets.)
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A well-earned carry my friend :thumbsup:


Fantastic pic Taylor, you've really captured the wood nicely :thumbsup:

Nope not here today...tomorrow, tomorrow;)

Sorry to hear that Preston, I figured we'd see a few more arriving today :( Hope that's the case tomorrow :thumbsup:
 
A watched mailbox never delivers :( BUT - Jack Black DOES, on this you can depend and never worry (or so I've heard :D). All good things - blah blah blah. ;) There have been some beauties revealed here in the last few days :thumbsup:

Ray

Cheers Ray! :D :thumbsup:
 
I checked my tracking this morning! :cool: Oh boy! :D My package was at my local Post Office at 5:29am. I’m not home so I won’t get to see my knives until Saturday. I was going to have Pam take a photo of the package so I could post that here. Well, that ain’t happening! :eek: My package arrived in Tallahassee Florida at 12:36pm! :( Go figure! o_O Now just maybe I’ll get to see the new Ironwood on Saturday! :rolleyes:
 
Yes, it could have been made by any number of men or small firms, and even with some quality control at the receiving factory, the style and quality of manufacture will vary depending on the maker (or more likely, makers). The tang-stamps might also vary, because some of the same small firms worked for the larger firms for years. That's one of the reasons dating Sheffield knives can be so difficult. I have to say that I've never seen a copy of Goins, but from the references that turn up on here, I wouldn't spend the cost of lunch on a copy. The names of different Sheffield firms have passed from owner to owner, with several names often being run in tandem. Even a newer company like Wright's (dating from only 1947) has had lots of different owners, at least two different factories, many different cutlers, and lots of changes in the style of production. Furthermore, like all the other Sheffield firms, they've always made lots of knives for numerous other Sheffield firms, as well as supplying blades; John Petty, Joseph Rodgers, Needham, Slater, TEW, to name just a few.
That's quite interesting, Jack. Very different than the American style of manufacturing.
I have a copy of Goins, and it can be helpful, but I've learned not to depend on it when it comes to English marks.

I guess I should only check the P.O. box every other day, so I don't have to do the empty-box-sad-walk out the door so many times this week. :(
 
A watched mailbox never delivers :( BUT - Jack Black DOES, on this you can depend and never worry (or so I've heard :D). All good things - blah blah blah. ;) There have been some beauties revealed here in the last few days :thumbsup:

Ray
Thanks, Ray, those sayings were going though my head, well, except for the Jack Black one. You're right about those that we have seen.
Stay warm Preston, nice pic there :thumbsup:
Sorry to hear that Preston, I figured we'd see a few more arriving today :( Hope that's the case tomorrow :thumbsup:
Thanks Jack, I know you did you're very best to get them in the system as quick as you could...

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I guess I should only check the P.O. box every other day, so I don't have to do the empty-box-sad-walk out the door so many times this week. :(
I told myself that I was just going to wait and when it arrived that would be it...but, I'm weak and gave in.:rolleyes: Preston
 
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