gun - not to be heard

iBlade said:
You have to be joking right, the old air rifle i used to shoot would MAYBE knock over tin can at 20 feet, IF it was not windy, and you are talking about killing things with it?
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I'm not sure the old air rifle you used to shoot are the same as the one's in production today. You can watch youtube video's of people taking out rabbits and squirrels with them from some distance.

I was just curious is there are 22lr that are quite as well.
 
I'll tell ya what, I will challenge ANYBODY to a match for accuracy between a .22 powder burner shooting through a soda bottle vs. a current, high accuracy .22 pellet rifle at 50 yards.

And the Pellet rifle will not need any trees around to be quiet.

ANYBODY.

Any takers?
 
PrimitiveMan said:
I'll tell ya what, I will challenge ANYBODY to a match for accuracy between a .22 powder burner shooting through a soda bottle vs. a current, high accuracy .22 pellet rifle at 50 yards.

And the Pellet rifle will not need any trees around to be quiet.

ANYBODY.

Any takers?
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Tell you what - we;ll do it at 100 yards and we'll see who hears what first - open field - you in?:D
 
I bought a gamo big cat 1200 fps .177 - but I think the speed will be a little less. I'm going to shoot it tomorrow. I've had it for about a week now but haven't been able to shoot it yet.

Here's the review's on it (it can also be purchased at walmart)

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/gamo-big-cat-1200-air-rifle.shtml#readReviews

BUT I've also been looking at a Savage 22lr at Walmart. It's only $117. Seems like a good deal.

I really only want one of the two guns. Been debating on if I should take the gamo back and get the savage. I do want a gun that will work in the scenario I presented. At least after tomorrow I'll know how the air rifle shoots.
 
One thing I was also thinking in regard to an air gun is they probably need zero to little cleaning.
 
Personally I use a crossbow and it is quiet and basically it is like shooting a rifle, which is good if you are not a skilled archer.
 
newknife said:
New Scenario:
Now here's a different option. Say you wanted a gun which could help you get food but keep you from being heard. In essence, you don't want to give away your location but want to be able to hunt and eat.
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My only question is what type of scenario are you planning on being in that you need to keep from being heard?

I know in a realistic survival situation I think I would want a gun that could be heard. That way I could use it to hunt for food as well as signal with to any search parties that are looking for me.

So unless you've watched Red Dawn too many times and think Russia (or what's left of it) might really invade the USA I think the only SBDs (silent but deadlies) you should really worry about are the ones that come from your posterior.
 
Primitiveman,

Now you've got me curious. I have a RWS Mod. 54, a Browning Mod. 52, and a soda bottle for the latter. Both are quality rifles in .22. Do you think they would make for a fair 50 yd comparison, as you described? If so, I may give it a try next time I have an appropriate location.

DancesWithKnives
 
Guys, any fixed silencer on a firearm is highly illegal unless you go through the paper drill and pay the fees to have the ATF bless one particular gun, usually a rifle, for silencing. I recently ordered a lever action in 45 Colt for some hunters who got a contract to thin down Coyotes on a nearby Air Base. The 45 Colt silences easily because it is a sub sonic round and also has a relatively short range since they didn't want to take any chances with long range overshoots or ricochets. Notice the term 'sub sonic.' It is much easier to silence such a round which translates to 22 short, most 9mm ammo, 38 spl, and 45. The hotter rounds, handgun or rifle, which break the sound barrier add that miniature sonic boom or a 'crack!' in this case, to the sound suppression problem. Military silencers on rifles like a 308 are big mothers with up to an 18 inch or more long, quite large 'muffler' attached to try and quiet the round. Some rifles like that have a sleeve along the entire barrel with a series of holes to leak gas along the way and have the bullet sub sonic before it leaves the muzzle. It is a problem with supersonic rounds.

For a 22 short, a bunch of kid's balloons from the dime store do a fair job but you need one or two taped tight over the muzzle for each shot. As far as I know, there's no law against this sort of one time 'silencer' but I could be wrong.

It is legal to silence air rifles and I have a Gamo break barrel air rifle with integral silencer of the muffler type. It cuts the sound about 50% or so but you can still hear a fair bang, mostly the sound of the big spring doing its thing.

My recommendations for silent hunting are, first choice, a really good blowgun; second choice, a small cross bow. The Cold Steel .625 inch (or caliber) blow guns are excellent and the gun, with its crutch tip on the end, makes a good walking staff or even a fighting staff in a pinch. I have completely impaled rabbits and prairie dogs with mine using both the steel and bamboo darts provided with it. It's also deadly accurate out to 20 plus yards. I shoot mine at that range routinely and I have to space my darts or I'll ruin them by hitting one dart with another and thus ruin the plastic funnel device on the rear. In a sure nuff survival situation, my darts or bolts would be tipped with one of several fast acting poisons real quick since I don't like chasing wounded prey.

It's also easy to make a good blowgun with a five or six foot long length of electrical conduit of about one-half inch ID. I make my darts from 8 penny nails, plastic from notebook inserts, and Scotch tape. These are wicked too.
 
Good points. I've used blowguns in Arizona but here in CA, I don't believe they are legal. If I move to a jurisdiction where they are legal, I'm getting one because you are right about their accuracy. I got fairly good after just a weekend.

I've also got a crossbow and I must admit that if I haven't practiced traditional archery in a while, the crossbow is easier to pick up and shoot accurately.

DancesWithKnives
 
Here you go:

http://www.gem-tech.com/legal.html

After going to the page, click on the top most radio button on the left side to look at the products they have.

Note they do a pretty good explanation of the ability to get the silencer being hinged on a class three license, including all fees and background checks.

And of course, I am sure in this day and age any policeman would welcome you shooting game with a silencer. Yeah, right.

If you are bent on doing this, it is easy enough to build a very effective silencer. 25 years ago I went through a "tactical stage" where I thought a silenced rifle was on the must have and "need" list to be prepared when the USA finally collapsed on itself.

Once installed on a .22 bolt action, it sounded like someone coughing when we were using long rifles in the gun.

Plans abound on the net. NOTE: ANY silencer you build is illegal. I am not saying it is a good idea, or even suggest that you do it. It is a felony federal offense to own a silencer without the proper licenses and other attached paperwork granting permission.

It sounds like you are shooting where you shouldn't be, or where you don't have permission. I wouldn't do anything too dumb; they take these things a lot more seriously than they did 25 years ago.

Robert
 
There might be situations in our near future where hunting quietly would be to an advantage and I don't think Russia needs to invade to create them. We seem to be doing quite well moving in that direction all on our own.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
I'll tell ya what, I will challenge ANYBODY to a match for accuracy between a .22 powder burner shooting through a soda bottle vs. a current, high accuracy .22 pellet rifle at 50 yards.

And the Pellet rifle will not need any trees around to be quiet.

ANYBODY.

Any takers?
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I'm your huckleberry!:D


RUGER001.jpg
 
Id be willing to guarantee that my Gamo is louder than a .22.. That spring in that sucker is LOUD.. Anyone near Denver can check it out whenever you want.. ITs accurate as all hell, but its f'n loud..
 
Since I don't think this has been mentioned yet, how about a blowgun? A nice Cold Steel 0.625 caliber hunting blowgun. Not good for long distances, but very effective with razor heads at short distances. Can definitely take small game with head or good body shots.
Two benefits of this - can be made to look like a walking staff? And can also be made out of simple PVC pipe (if you prefer a cheaper option or your own handcrafted weapon).
Just an idea.
 
I'm a bit out of touch with air rifles but I used to be heavily involved with them, and the first thing I'd say is that the power isn't the aspect I'd be focusing on where noise is concerned.

Legal restrictions of air rifle power vary, and on that I can only go with what is considered high power here. 12 ft/lbs is the top limit on energy you can have here before you need an FAC. Although I've played with several air rifles much more powerful than this I think it is safe to assume that is commonly regarded as high power.

Here's the thing: The engagement range of the target species never changed much whether I was shooting 12 ft/lbs or 18/20 ft/lbs. The kill area didn't change size. I can't be certain of grouping my shots on a ping-pong ball size area with an air rifle beyond 50 yards under real world conditions. The way I see it, that is what I need to do to ensure a clean kill of the species I'm after. If I can't do that then I have no business shooting at animals at that range. 12 ft/lbs on the sweet spot at that range kills just as good as 18/20 /lbs. But hey, 50 yrds is fairly extraordinary with an air rifle. Much more common to me was to take rabbits and stuff at around 30 / 40 paces. On that, you can quite easily get an off the shelf air rifle that avoids all the power band crack and will do the job. The differences in sound these tools will produce can be great. Spring guns are noisy. It is in their nature. But there are more ways to build a sporting air rifle than a spring gun and many of these are very quiet indeed. A true poachers friend.

Frankly, I get quite sickened when I hear of extreme feats with high power air rifles. I've taken bets from people with great claims of prowess at 50yards that couldn't take all ten ping-pong balls I put up at 50 paces with ten shots. Good. It's nice to humiliate a 'tard in front of his friends. And it's even nicer to know that you may well have saved a bunch of wildlife from wounding by an idiot. I've even had a salesman in a gun shop trying to sell me off the shelf with the blessing “this will kill a fox at 50 yards”. I wanted to beat him with the blunt end of it. Then there's the 'tards that go on about the power of these new miracle air rifles as if I had no understanding of the antique shop air-canes, or ever killed a whole bunch of stuff in the wild, or competitively shot bell target. Aarrgghhh; keep it simple and honest. An off the shelf 12 ft/lbs air gun is plenty for taking the types of things you ought to be using it on [save crows, sh1t they're tough], out to about the range you are accurate with it. In sum, it's a very quiet cheap to run solution for getting small critters. Winding in another 10 ft/lbs is not going to magically make you more accurate, or change the size of what you are trying to hit, or even the species you are hitting. On that, it is easy with a air rifle to throttle it to produce extremely low noise levels without impediment to the size of your bag.

That said, if I could use one here without fuss I would also have a Ruger M77. I'd go the Tactical Operation suppressed version going by the name of Green Hornet. This to me is clear.
 
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