gun - not to be heard

[newknife]

But there are more ways to build a sporting air rifle than a spring gun and many of these are very quiet indeed.

What do you recommend for a quite off the shelf air rifle? Something with CO2?

I shot my gammo big cat today. I thought it was EXTREMELY loud for an air rilfe. I took it back. Maybe I just need a spring air gun that shoots a little slower (RWS .22 maybe?)

I did get a savage 22. I like it...though right now I'm a terrible shot with the iron sights. We'll see if the scope helps.

Oh yea.. the gamo big cat had way more recoil than the savage 22.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

You really need to check out some airgun hunting forums.

Most airgun shots are 30 yards or so, but there are countless stories of successfull kills at 50 and even 100 yards.

Not sure where you are from, I know many places in Europe have completely given up their rights and are now subject to not being allowed to shoot the kings game with anything but a red ryder bb gun. We are not limited to ft lbs of energy here. We can use the highest velocity available and the heaviest pellet available which translates to high ft lbs of energy and ethical kills at longer ranges.

A Sheridan Super streak pushes a 10 grain .177 at 930 FPS That's over 20 foot lbs at the muzzle

Some new rifles throw a 16 -18 grain .22 pellet at 1,000 fps which gives you just shy of 40 foot lbs at the muzzle

All of these are sub-sonic

They WILL be quieter than a .22 LR while being deadly to small game out to 100 yards.

 

[newknife]

You really need to check out some airgun hunting forums.

Most airgun shots are 30 yards or so, but there are countless stories of successfull kills at 50 and even 100 yards.

Not sure where you are from, I know many places in Europe have completely given up their rights and are now subject to not being allowed to shoot the kings game with anything but a red ryder bb gun. We are not limited to ft lbs of energy here. We can use the highest velocity available and the heaviest pellet available which translates to high ft lbs of energy and ethical kills at longer ranges.

A Sheridan Super streak pushes a 10 grain .177 at 930 FPS That's over 20 foot lbs at the muzzle

Some new rifles throw a 16 -18 grain .22 pellet at 1,000 fps which gives you just shy of 40 foot lbs at the muzzle

All of these are sub-sonic

They WILL be quieter than a .22 LR while being deadly to small game out to 100 yards.

What's the min. fps need for small game under 50 yrds?

 

[PrimitiveMan]

Depends on a few factors

What is the game?

what is the distance?

I REGULARLY kill squirrels at 10 yards with my daisy 747 target pistol (.177)and it is only about 390 FPS However I ONLY take head shots with pointed pellets.

For a rifle that will take game (Rabbits, squirrels, birds) ethically at ranges to 30-40 yards or so, I would say about 800 FPS in .177 and 700 FPS or so in .22

If you want to extend your range, you need to get some more velocity behind the lead.

 

[Sid Post]

Keep in mind that sound reflects off berms, trees, walls, etc. so, even a "quiet" firearm is fairly loud when shot in cover. In a house, you better have good hearing protection or a silencer and some ear plugs.

I'm a huge fan of silencers (the legal ones ). On 22lr semi-auto's, you can keep velocity at 1000FPS and reduce sound to the point you hear the bolt moving back and forth. On a 9mm handgun, 147 grain ammo is certainly hearing safe. When buying a silencer, keep in mind that some are quiet at the shooters ear and some are made to be more quiet down range.

For a SHTF type situations, a 22lr silencer like an SWR Spectre is a great tool to have in your bug out bag.

Air rifles are a great option too. The good European models can rival a suppressed 22lr but, the energy is generally less because the projectile weight is less. And, like a 22lr you get noise when you launch a pellet at 1000FPS or more.

Pellet rifles are nice because they are small and lightweight and 500 pellets fit easily into a pocket. You also don't have to go through the Form 4 process to take ownership like you would with a Machinegun, Short Barrel Shotgun, Silencer, or Destructive device.

 

[stevomiller]

Some new rifles throw a 16 -18 grain .22 pellet at 1,000 fps which gives you just shy of 40 foot lbs at the muzzle

All of these are sub-sonic

They WILL be quieter than a .22 LR while being deadly to small game out to 100 yards.

I don't want to start a war, but I totally disagree with this. What do you base your information on other than internet air gun forums? Shooting small game (not song birds) at a 100 yards with an air rifle of this power range is unethical. Most high power air rifles are springers, and a high power springer can be a beast to shoot accurately ~ and accuracy is the name of the game to killing with an air rifle.

A .22 short shooting a 29 grain bullet (with better BC and SD)@ 830 fps has 44 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle ~ is not up to the task of humane kills on a consistent basis.

 

[Kiah]

New Scenario:

Airgun or .22lr


Now here's a different option. Say you wanted a gun which could help you get food but keep you from being heard. In essence, you don't want to give away your location but want to be able to hunt and eat. I know that no gun will absolutely accomplish this. So, how much louder is a 22lr than one of the higher powered air guns? Is there a way to have a low noise 22lr?

As stated, .22 bolt action long barrel with cb longs are about as quiet as it gets. Even from a 16.5" barrel they are pretty dang silent. Semi-autos lose a bit of that quietness and a pistol will still ring your ears a bit.

Shoot a person or a deer at short range, and they are gonna die too. Maybe not quickly, but they are gonna die.

This is silly. The only way your dropping a deer with a 22 pellet is a dead centered, straight to the brain eye shot at close range, maybe.

A .22 pellet at 1,000 FPS has way more Ft Lbs of energy than a .22 CB

Wrong on the "way more". It may have a small amount more energy at the muzzle, but it will also lose energy faster. The increased mass of the .22 bullet will also minimize through shots leading to more energy transferred to the target.

The new airguns are not the old "red ryders" we are used to. They are formidible weapons.

100 yard shots on game are not only possible, they are routine at this point.

I'll give you both of those, but not with a .22 air rifle. You need to go into much higher calibers for those statements to ring true.

Seriously, an airgun is quieter than a powder burner. No discussion needed.

A .22 air rifle delivering the same amount of force as a .22 BA with CB longs will also make more noise. A lot more noise.

One thing I was also thinking in regard to an air gun is they probably need zero to little cleaning.

Air rifles need cleaning, oiling, and other steps depending on type. Seals, springs, etc, need to be replaced periodically.

My only question is what type of scenario are you planning on being in that you need to keep from being heard?

I know in a realistic survival situation I think I would want a gun that could be heard. That way I could use it to hunt for food as well as signal with to any search parties that are looking for me.

:thumbup:

I don't want to start a war, but I totally disagree with this. What do you base your information on other than internet air gun forums? Shooting small game (not song birds) at a 100 yards with an air rifle of this power range is unethical. A .22 short, 29 grain bullet @ 830 fps has 44 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle ~ and it is not up to the task on a consistent basis.

:thumbup: again. Not to mention the ballistics of a .22 pellet at that range.

 

[Kiah]

One more point. To those "hinting" at improvised silencers, keep in mind that these are still illegal if used in this manner. Not that I'm an angel in this regard, but you might want to keep in mind that this is an open forum.

 

[akabu]

http://www.youtube.com/user/hobbexp
and the Air rifle, Right on with the 900 fps.plus you can get sabot Steel pellets
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=air+rifle+hunting&emb=0#

 

[kage]

Koyote recently did a great write-up on air rifles that convinced me to get a Crosman 1377 that I'll mod over time.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620240

 

[fishiker]

I went back and read the original post. It asked two questions.
- So, how much louder is a 22lr than one of the higher powered air guns?
- Is there a way to have a low noise 22lr?
The higher velocity air guns are not silent but they are much quieter than a standard 22lr. If you have a 22 rifle(something most of us do), you can have low noise by shooting CB longs. I'm sure that there are air rifles capable of taking game but I don't own one and none of my friends do. I can't think of any of my friends who don't own a 22 rifle. I don't know how much an air gun of the quality needed would cost but I did buy a box of 100 CB longs this week for $7.97.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

I just have one question for KIAHS:

Do I have to give back all the squirrels and rabbits I have killed with my airgun out to 60 yards or so? LOL

Because I have to have killed at least 100 at various ranges from 10 yards to 60ish yards over the years with a Daisy 120 and that only shoots at about 700FPS. My buddy has whacked quite a few bunnies this year with his new Gamo .177 (Shoots 1,200 FPS with PBA ammo, a bit less with hunting rounds) out to about 80 yards.

We have "Lost" very, very few over our careers.

I believe you may be misinformed.

There are COUNTLESS threads on the internet and verified accounts in hunting magazines of routine small game kills with airguns at 50, 75 and yes, even 100 yards. Not the ramblings of a 14 year old kid. This is objective evidence, not opinion.

I've been hunting for over 30 years, Shotgun, Bow, Rifle and airgun, so I have at least a little experience behind me.

You really should do a bit of research. It may be an eye opener.

 

[Kiah]

I just have one question for KIAHS:

Do I have to give back all the squirrels and rabbits I have killed with my airgun out to 60 yards or so? LOL

You can if ya want. Not sure who would take them.

Because I have to have killed at least 100 at various ranges from 10 yards to 60ish yards over the years with a Daisy 120 and that only shoots at about 700FPS. My buddy has whacked quite a few bunnies this year with his new Gamo .177 (Shoots 1,200 FPS with PBA ammo, a bit less with hunting rounds) out to about 80 yards.

We have "Lost" very, very few over our careers.

I believe you may be misinformed.

There are COUNTLESS threads on the internet and verified accounts in hunting magazines of routine small game kills with airguns at 50, 75 and yes, even 100 yards. Not the ramblings of a 14 year old kid. This is objective evidence, not opinion.

I've been hunting for over 30 years, Shotgun, Bow, Rifle and airgun, so I have at least a little experience behind me.

You really should do a bit of research. It may be an eye opener.

Speculating in 20 yard increments is not really making your case. With the ballistics of a .22 pellet, 60, 80, and 100 yards are leaps apart. I have no doubt that people have taken very small game with an air rifle at 100 yards, but I wouldn't call it routine. In a quick google search I couldn't find one instance, but I probably didn't look in the right places. One thing to keep in mind is that a squirrel and a rabbit take very different amounts of force to kill. A head shot that would drop a rabbit may not do anything but give a squirrel a headache.

I think you're taking exception to my reply to:

100 yard shots on game are not only possible, they are routine at this point.

Like I said, I'm sure people do take small game at that range. If you can make the shot, given the ballistics, then small birds, rabbits, etc. are possible. Heck a squirrel is possible too, even if not routine.

The concept of the .22 air rifle taking deer though is mind numbing.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

Quietmike,

That is the weirdest soda bottle I have ever seen. LOL Very cool. How does it shoot?

Maybe "Routine" is not my best choice of words. "Not uncommon" probably represents the truth. I personally have never taken any game with an air rifle at 100 yards or over, but I personally HAVE taken game at 50 with one.

As far as taking a deer with a .22 air rifle. I gave the caveat that it may die slowly. Certainly not your first choice as a hunting weapon by any means and certainly not ethical. I only meant to demonstrate that the new guns ARE capable of doing it. Some of the big bore airguns take large game such as deer, antelope and wild boar ethically.

In fact, a woman was killed last month in my state when her huband shot her in the back with a high power (.177) air rifle by "accident".

The point is, air guns are quiet, deadly to small game and certainly capable of hunting at longer yardages than most would expect (For sake of argument lets call it 50+ yards?)

As far as springers being tricky to hold/accuracy being affected and needing a lot of maintenance, I bet I have fired 2,000 rounds from mine and have done nothing to it. It still managed to take 10 squirrels last week alone. (No, none were at 100 yards)

 

[newknife]

Quietmike,

That is the weirdest soda bottle I have ever seen. LOL Very cool. How does it shoot?

Maybe "Routine" is not my best choice of words. "Not uncommon" probably represents the truth. I personally have never taken any game with an air rifle at 100 yards or over, but I personally HAVE taken game at 50 with one.

As far as taking a deer with a .22 air rifle. I gave the caveat that it may die slowly. Certainly not your first choice as a hunting weapon by any means and certainly not ethical. I only meant to demonstrate that the new guns ARE capable of doing it. Some of the big bore airguns take large game such as deer, antelope and wild boar ethically.

In fact, a woman was killed last month in my state when her huband shot her in the back with a high power (.177) air rifle by "accident".

The point is, air guns are quiet, deadly to small game and certainly capable of hunting at longer yardages than most would expect (For sake of argument lets call it 50+ yards?)

As far as springers being tricky to hold/accuracy being affected and needing a lot of maintenance, I bet I have fired 2,000 rounds from mine and have done nothing to it. It still managed to take 10 squirrels last week alone. (No, none were at 100 yards)

Sent you a pm

 

[Kismet]

ok..

not mentioned yet, but...the sound made by an airgun is much different than a gunshot...any gunshot. An airgun sound may not be recognized as a projectile weapon. There's also the factor of how far the sound carries...I'd suspect the sound of the airgun carries less far than a .22.


and while this is all speculative...Dude...don't break any laws. It will change your life, and not in a good way.


best wishes

 

[nemoaz]

There's quiet, then there's nearly silent. A S&W 6" revolver with CB caps (shorts I think) is hardly more noisy than an airgun. That's quiet enough for me. No, I can't shoot something a few yards away from something and expect that there will be NO noise, but in a pinch I can shoot things in the back yard and the neighbors probably won't notice, especially if I time the shot with other background noise like traffic driving by or an aircraft flying over. That's good enough for my needs.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

NewKnife,

I tried to e-mail but it looks like your address is not accepting my mail. Keeps getting rejected.

If you didn't get it, let me know, we will figure something out.

 

[Mountainman38]

You have to be joking right, the old air rifle i used to shoot would MAYBE knock over tin can at 20 feet, IF it was not windy, and you are talking about killing things with it?

Do some research -- there are air rifles capable of killing bison.

 

[Mountainman38]

A .22 pellet at 1,000 FPS has way more Ft Lbs of energy than a .22 CB

From this site, a .22 CB has around 33 lb-ft of energy. From this site, a .22 cal. pellet @ 14 grains, going 900 ft/s has 25 ft-lb of energy.

Napolean issued a doctrine that any enemy caught with an air rifle was to be put to death immediately.

Too silent. Too deadly

This sounded dubious, and a little research brought up this from Beemans website: "One of the most common myths is that Napoleon ordered the hanging of anyone in possession of an airgun. The late Arne Hoff, famed arms historian and curator of the Royal Danish Arsenal, and others, have commented that this story, told as the “eye witness” war experience of French General Mortier, has now been quite thoroughly refuted (Baer, 1973)."