Gunting modified (Suspect Gunting!)

[Eric Blair]

Okay, okay,...I finally broke down and got a Gunting. It arrived yesterday. Overall fit and finish is quite impressive. Tolerances are very tight. I spent last evening handling it....and considering a few modifications in order to make it more aesthetic to this Usual Suspect.
Before all of you flame me to death, please understand that I think the Gunting is a very fine knife. But I'm not wild about tip-down carry, nor am I wild about oversized handle to blade ratio. This is why they created Dremel Tools.

I began by heavily modifying the butt of the grip to suit my tastes. I ending up knocking 5/8" or so off of the butt with the Dremel, shaped it to a V-skullcrusher, and finished it with a few files and some sandpaper.

I then dumped the Spyderco spoon-shaped clip in favor of an Emerson Commander clip, which I satin finished and installed for tip-up and LOW inside of the pocket carry.
Here's the preliminary results:

Now I'm quite happy with this new Gunting. It carries beautifully AND waves open on the draw as easily as my Commanders. Blade to handle ratio is now more to my liking. Go figure.

The only other things that I want to do to this Gunting is to high polish the blade flats (leaving the bevels satin), and also to re-contour the old clip indentation on the G10 so that it's a suitable finger groove of sorts. I'll fill the 3 clip screw holes with black epoxy before sanding. This will be my weekend project. I'll post pics of the final results here if anyone is interested.

Alright, let the flames fly if you must, but I think that it turned out pretty decent, and it's very user friendly now.

Thanks for your time, guys, and thanks for any forthcoming critique/comments.

 

[Eric Blair]

By the way, here's a pic of an unmodified Gunting for comparison purposes, from my friend Larry Brahms site www.bladeart.com . I should've taken "before" pics, but I was too eager to begin the mods.

 

[ThinkOfTheChildren]

Bram is gonna S**T himself but I like it Cool work!

 

[misque]

YIKES!

I like it!

It actually looks like a better fit for your hand too. Very nice job dude!

 

[BRAM]

No I have no reason to get mad.
You bought it..you do as you see fit..
If you wanted it to wave open, an Emerson trademark..you should have stuck with an Emerson.
Form follows function and you ended its form..hmm I guess function followed it down the tubes...
I know someone who bought a SALEEN Cobra..decided it needed to be made better...its certainly different..its no longer a SALEEN nor does it do as SALEEN designed it too.
But as with men and their toys..you spend your money..you do as you want..

No you didn't make it better. no you didn;t fix any shortcomings..
You obviously have a full cup and filling it more only causes it to run over.
no problem..
Enjoy your "bastardized" Gunting...If it fits your needs as you say it does far be it for me to disagree with it as a personal tool for you..
Is it a GUNTING? nope. It stopped being that when you showed you don't understand the GUNTING..
Is it a Spyderco knife that will do some cool things? yup..I'm sure it is..

again..you bought it..you can do as you please.

 

[Blades]

Nice.


Blades

 

[Colinz]

This is exactly what I have been discussing with 2Sharp. I took away the clip and tried to contact a custommaker here in Sweden that could do a couple of new G-10 scales and change it to a tip-up carry. It´s great to see other people thinking in the same direction. Are you going to do anything about that ugly hole where the old clip was?

Nice work with the dremel too. Never thought of that. I was thinking of changing to a longer blade but at about 200 bucks it felt a bit too much money for me right now.

Very cool.

/Colinz

 

[cpirtle]

I have always liked the Gunting but because I will not use it for it's intended purpose, I've avoided one.

I like what you did and since I have also been known to "Dremelize" a knife or two, I may consider similar action in the future on one.

I would take the opposite stance from Bram and suggest that you saw a great knife and modified it a little to suit your needs.

Good work

 

[Colinz]

I was a bit fast on the trigger. Reread your post and saw what you were going to do with the old clip holes and indention. Just a quick question, did you take apart the knife befor you used the dremel?. I´m going to do this as soon as I get hold of a dremel tool. I´ll try to post some pic´s when I´m finished. It will probably take a couple of weeks from now.

/Colinz

 

[DJ _Wolf]

I must admit I am a little taken back by Mr. Bram's comments.

I do not know the man, nor do I own a Gunting, I do know a tiny fraction of blade defensive skills. The Gunting from what I have seen and read about seems to be a highly effective tool for both lethal and non-lethal force.

I do not know of anyone who is met with negative feedback when they take a firearm and modify it to suit their needs. The firearm came from the factory able to perform it's intended task, I am sure, but just about everyone who gets one, does something to make it personal, or to do things more to their taste.

Why should it be any different with knives? I defy anyone to prove that the knife will not achieve it's intended task to Mr. Blairs satisfaction. The knife is still a Gunting. A few tweeks and modifications do nothing to change that. It is still capable of doing what only a Gunting can do.

Enjoy your knife, Eric.

 

[callahwj]

Originally posted by DJ _Wolf
I must admit I am a little taken back by Mr. Bram's comments.

Agreed. I respect Bram's efort in designing this knife and a system for using it, but I think his post was sarcastic and insulting. My computer doesn't stop being a dell if I add a microsoft mouse, or switch out the hard drives, and I wouldn't expect to be told that I obviously don't understand my computer if I did such a thing. Nobody is trying to step on your toes here Bram, with all due respect, lighten up.

 

[Brandon -B-]

I am a newbie to the Spyderco forums and i do not know Bram or Mr Blair but I would like to find out about them here. I am also unfamilliar with the Guntings use and hopefully Bram can clear that up for me as well. It seem that Mr Blair has transformed a useful Weapon into his vision of a more useful Weapon.

Bram. did you design the Gunting? from your comments I would say that you either designed it, or you are a Master of its intended use. Unfortunately I don't see anything in you post that seems to back up your opinions. I call them opinions because they seem more like sarcastic "know it all" comments and "sour grapes" rantings. ( I know I'm not the only one who read it like that am I?). You did seem to make a good arguement (perhaps unintentionally) for modifying the Gunting.

I know someone who bought a SALEEN Cobra..decided it needed to be made better...its certainly different..its no longer a SALEEN nor does it do as SALEEN designed it too.

A guy takes a cookie cutter Mustang and decides that it isn't fast,quick,nimble,bad a**, etc...enough. so he modifies it how he sees fit and ends up with a car that is no longer a cookie cutter but a definately more bad a**. he shows some people then they want one like it and he sells them and gets a reputation for taking an ordinary cool car and transforming it into a superior machine.

Mr Blair this should sound familliar to you. um... hey... Isn't that what you did?

Form follows function and you ended its form..hmm I guess function followed it down the tubes

Bram. I would like to know what function the form of the Gunting performs. I am ignorant and request a small lesson from you, along with an explination of why Mr. Blair's "Saleen Gunting" won't perform those tasks. From the pictures I can tell that the Knife formerly known as Gunting still cuts so feel free to take it from there.

Bram

No you didn't make it better. no you didn;t fix any shortcomings..

Eric Blair shortcomings.

please understand that I think the Gunting is a very fine knife. But I'm not wild about tip-down carry, nor am I wild about oversized handle to blade ratio.

Eric Blair soloutions to make it better

I ending up knocking 5/8" or so off of the butt with the Dremel, shaped it to a V-skullcrusher,

I then dumped the Spyderco spoon-shaped clip in favor of an Emerson Commander clip, which I satin finished and installed for tip-up and LOW inside of the pocket carry

MISQUE

It actually looks like a better fit for your hand too

Bram it seems like someone agrees that this was a reasonable soloution to a problem but i'll let you explain why it isn't.

Bram the rest of the post is just useless to making a point.

If you wanted it to wave open, an Emerson trademark..you should have stuck with an Emerson

But as with men and their toys..you spend your money..you do as you want

You obviously have a full cup and filling it more only causes it to run over. No problem..

Enjoy your "bastardized" Gunting...If it fits your needs as you say it does far be it for me to disagree with it as a personal tool for you..

again..you bought it..you can do as you please

Bram come on this is how old women talk and does nothing to help you make your point. It does everything to make you sound like an Intolerant know it all unable to comprehend why a "youngster" would want to "soup up" a gift from God like the Gunting or a Mustang.

In closing (Arent those the words that made your ears perk up when you heard the Pastor say them when you were a kid) I would like to say that i didn't come here to make enemies with anyone but i did write this to support someone that is enthusiastic about knives and the Gunting in particular and saw he could do something cool with it. I did not post this to belittle Bram but to give him a chance to think about his words next time and let us know why Mr Blair's newly modified Self Defense Tool will not perform as well as a Gunting. If Mr Blair deserves the sarcastic comments let us know why Bram. and back it up with a fact or two. I invite you to take me and my post. Kick our A** for being wrong. show us the right way to be and tell us why. then after I dust off my pants and wipe the blood from my face, I'll shake your hand and give you the respect that you probably deserve. until then, all I can do is commend Eric Blair on the fine looking mods he has performed on an already fine looking knife.

Brandon Bedient

 

[Brandon -B-]

dad gummit i spelled some words wrong... sorry guys

 

[Aphthartos]

First off, I like Eric's modifications.

BUT secondly. Bram DID design the gunting, it's his baby, built with certain ideas in mind. Eric has modified that design VERY MUCH. Bram has every right to be a little ticked, he's obviously proud of his design and, in my opinion with good reason--it's a great design. He's also the only person who can claim the right to decide whether a certain design can be labeled "gunting". His criticism might have been harsh, but most of it was also valid, and he had every right to do it.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Brandon. DJ, welcome to the spyderco forum.

Eric, nice work. It certainly is a lot of work to do with a Dremel. We can appreciate the time it takes. Though Bram may not agree with the changes, I must think that it is now your knife the way you want it. I used to get upset when people would take the clips off of Clipits ( I invented the clothing clip that you see on most tactical knives today), but at I matured and learned, no one size fits all and everyone has their own ideas about what is right for them (and that is as it should be).

Thanx for the sharing and the pics.

sal

 

[NCBlades]

First off, I want to say that Bram created a super knife when he came up with the Gunting. I have three (trainer, plainedge, and the serrated) versions and I love them all. I don't use or carry them because I am afraid that I will cut myself but I do take them out and look at them alot. I have met Bram and have talked to him several times via email. He is a master at what he does and he put alot of work into the Gunting. I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley . I can understand him being upset a little but sometimes we say things that we wish we didn't. By the way Eric, I love the skull crusher. Keep up the good work and show us some more pics. Maybe you could add some carbon fiber scales. That would be cool!
michael

 

[DJ _Wolf]

Originally posted by Sal Glesser
Hi Brandon. DJ, welcome to the spyderco forum.
sal

Hello Sal, thanks for the welcome. Please understand that I did not come here looking to pick a fight, I just had some questions, and asked them.

I own several Spyderco knives, and my wifes EDC is a delica,. I have nothing but respect for you and the company.

DJ Wolf

 

[FullerH]

First, let me say that my Gunting is my EDC as a utility blade, not as a martial arts device. But the Gunting was designed by Bram as a martial arts device and every single facet of the design is there for a purpose. Let's take the two of the things that Eric has changed as examples. The spoon-shaped clip and finger detente on the opposite side are there to allow you to index your fingers and then to flip the *closed* knife around in your hand so that you can reverse ends. That is so that you can use it as a yarawa stick and a closed martial arts device. By removing them, Eric has lessened its utility in its closed form as a martial arts device because it will make it less secure when trying to flip it in your hand. The reason for the length of the hilt, which is one of the main reasons that I bought the knife, is to allow it to project from a closed fist so that it can be used as a striking device in its closed form. By shortening it, Eric has lessened it effectiveness in that area. Also, by sharpening the "skull-crusher" point on the pommel, he has made it more likely to do serious damage when hitting someone. My impression, and Bram can correct me if I am wrong, is that he left the pommel rounded so that it would not do so much damage, while still being an effective weapon. At this point, what Eric has could well be lethal if it hit the wrong place.

As you can see from just these two examples, Eric's changes have significantly changed the philosophy of Bram's design. As Bram said, it is Eric's knife to do with as he pleases, but it is no longer the knife that Bram so carefully designed, and I don't blame Bram for disclaiming responsibility for it. I am particularly alarmed with his conversion to "tip-up" carry. As one who has carried a Gunting nearly every day for almost eight months, I am here to tell you that the over-sized ramp that allows kinetic opennings also tends to catch on pocket linings and it seems to me that a tip-up carry is just asking to have the blade stabbed into your leg in a fast draw situation. I can only advise Eric to be EXTREMELY careful when he draws his modified knife, especially since he is also carrying it deeper in his pocket.

 

[Brian_Turner]

Coupla things -

First, if you want to know the Gunting's specific functions, Bram has a nice series of video tapes or a seminar you can attend where he'll demonstrate and teach all of the specific functions of the knife, and why every single detail was designed the way he genuinely believed it should be. As the knife is a labor of love, I understand his feeling that the knife is no longer "his". But as he said, it's now Eric's knife. He's free to develop a defensive system based around it's new characteristics, rather than taking advantage of Bram's expertise and thoughtful experimentation - and to enjoy the heck out of doing it!

I plead guilty to having my Starmate modified, so I certainly would never begrudge a user making a knife their own!

Second, mirror polish 440V!?! Hope you've got a lot of time this weekend, and some serious finger and forearm muscles! There's a reason you never see it done...

 

[BRAM]

Well thanks Hugh!!!
nice explaination..
I said I wasn't mad..why should I be?
Sarcastic? give me a break..those of you that can't read a reply WITHOUT putting in your own imaginged feelings should stay off the net..
I state up front I have no irratation with it..the modification..
I CAn state that obviously the intent of a GUNTING is not understood..
so no problemo..you cut off what you can't deal with..
You bought it..you do as you want...
ROFL...
and no its not the same as I designed..
its not what it was designed to be//so its not a Gunting..Its a cool spyderco I guess if your primary concern is to try to imitate Ernies wave function and open on the draw..
Since the GUNTING is the ONLY edged tool designed to do impact tool things..be utilized CLOSED to go from non lethal, to less than lethal to lethal..it needs all the nice little bits n pieces you think nothing of and cut off..

of course it can't come up as a "tomahawk" anymore..its in a tip up.a position I personally find to be less than optimum..of course I don't do the old Eric Remmen dig my fingers into my pocket to index the knives I carry either..But thats personal..Mike Janich a very good friend of mine LOVES tip up..but again its personal!
BUT the function of a Gunting is impaired and you do the very thing I designed it NOT to do..The very thing I made sure was an option..
IMPACT..Non lethal usage upon contact..
your version is a copy of an Emerson wave..
you just lost what GUNS & WEAPONS for Law Enforcement called the best less than lethal tool ever designed..
You just lost the very attributes that Mas Ayoob called a "historic design for the Guntings ability to flow through the force continuum"
You just cut out the attributes and abilities that the SOKESHIP COUNCIL Martial Arts Hall of Fame awarded to the GUNTING as Most Innovative Martial Arts Tool of the Milleniumn...


as for how Gunting works...
You guys can EASILY research all the old archives on HOW the Gunting works..Why it was designed..I'm sure SPARK has them all somewhere.

Personally I think Ernies Commander is a super tool if you want a swoosh hey I'm open..lets cut upon impact type of knife..

sooooooooo Take it as words guys..no attitude at all behind it..
again..as I said..thanks for buying a Gunting..youbought it..you can do as you please..But it s not a Gunting..
A Gunting is a full force contiunuum tool..What you have is a tip up Escalator style knife on steroids..
ROFL..
bye..