H1...chips and bends

I still say carbide scrapers are junk, I've NEVER seen a good edge as the result of using one. I would venture a guess that the sharp edge you are noticing is the massive burr left after the scraping was completed.
 
Carbide pull through sharpens degrade edges, even the ceramic ones can if after a lot of use and no cleaning. Sharpen it with a stone for practicality's sake, if nothing else it will keep you from wearing down knives as quickly. I hope you are satisfied with any assistance they can provide though, its pretty much unheard of for any other company to do testing on an item like this for a customer.
 
Im going to send it to Sal, per his invitation. I would like to get to the bottom of the problem. To assume they did anything but sharpen it and reprofile it without mentioning the problems does not imply that they checked the hardness, etc. I do applaud the company, and as I said, I have several excellent Sypderco knives, but I stand by what I posted (other than the nasty tone of my original post, which I edited after re-reading it). I sharpened 6 other knives I had at hand, with the sharpener I used, and had NO problems with it (in fact, it works pretty well). I have a better sharpener but I usually don't need to use it if I do quick touch ups.
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They fixed it to your satisfaction but you're going to send it back again? By the way, you may have other knives that do fine with that sharpener but you do have one that has proven to be incompatible. Are you saying you are still going to use the pull through rather than a proper sharpening device due to , for lack of a better word, inconvenience? I'm not wanting to put words in your mouth but that is sort of what it sounds like.

If it has proven that it will tear up this one blade why would you consider?

If they fix it and you tear it up more do you feel you should get a replacement? My guess is it was checked out by W&R when you sent it in, before they fixed it. They wouldn't have fixed an out of spec blade.

Just my opinion.

Joe
 
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.
 
I'm not expecting the same result. I will not re-damage the knife. What I want to find out is; 1. is this genuine? 2. Is there some problem with the steel (too soft?). Many have fixated on the inexpensive sharpener, but fail to mention the U shaped bend in the end of the knife. I have never owned a knife that bent like that at the tip from a small drop.
 
Jraptor said:
I'm not expecting the same result. I will not re-damage the knife. What I want to find out is; 1. is this genuine? 2. Is there some problem with the steel (too soft?). Many have fixated on the inexpensive sharpener, but fail to mention the U shaped bend in the end of the knife. I have never owned a knife that bent like that at the tip from a small drop.
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Jraptor,

- Not sure if your knife is genuine or not. Where did you buy it? If you purchased it from a trusted store then the chances are that yes, it is a real Spyderco.

- I'm not an expert on H1, but it is described work hardend steel. That is why you never see a full flat grind on those knives, it would boost the hardness to a fragile level from what I gather. It could very well be that you got a lemon, nothing in life is perfect.

-Fixation is a strong term, but many of us that are avid knife enthusiasts and use our knives know the damage that can result from using the "inexpensive sharpener". The reason you see a "fixation" type of thing is because many of us have seen first hand the results of using those sharpeners, and the results are always the same. They are junk, period. That's the reason why you don't see anyone here advocating their use over what has been proven to work (guided sharpeners, benchstones, paperwheels, belt sanders).

-As for the tip of your knife bending from a short fall onto cardboard...well, you did not provide any pictures of it. that knife does have a thin tip because of the upper swedge and the deep hollow grind. You did not even really explain it well enough for anyone to even say, "Yes, that is a possibility". You are asking for a lot of credibility and not even making an effort to provide 1 clear picture of the knife tip. Even the video you made, lacked any effort to show what happened to the tip. Last I checked, steel is harder than cardboard. You want people to take your word for something that not anyone that posted in this thread has experienced, just because? Come on now.

If you want to verify the hardness of your blade, I can give you the contact information of a place here in Arizona that does this professionally.
 
Spyderco does not work on knives made by others. While I cannot guarantee it, I would bet the price of the knife that it is genuine if, in fact, Spyderco fixed it for you. (if it were not genuine, they would not have worked on it)

As for the bent tip...I would not be very surprised. No offense, but dropping a knife (that is not designed for throwing) is an action that I would expect to result in damage. One aspect that makes H1 desirable to many is that it generally will bend instead of breaking when people get careless.
 
That is one reason I have never really been a fan of those swedges ground into the spine.
 
We've had a lot of details about what the knife looks like but nothing about the circumstances of the injury itself. No details on what sharpener was used and no details on the action that resulted in a bent tip. For all we know you dropped the knife tip first into thin cardboard resting on concrete floor.

Not saying you are being deliberately evasive but we can't provide advice (I'm presuming that's why you posted in the first place) unless you give us all the facts.
 
Jraptor said:
I'm not expecting the same result. I will not re-damage the knife. What I want to find out is; 1. is this genuine? 2. Is there some problem with the steel (too soft?). Many have fixated on the inexpensive sharpener, but fail to mention the U shaped bend in the end of the knife. I have never owned a knife that bent like that at the tip from a small drop.
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If you sent it in to spyderco and they sharpened it for you but didn't mention anything about it being a fake, I'm pretty certain that it's genuine.

Your problems with the edge may be related to the sharpener since your experience is not at all common to many users with may methods of sharpening. Whatever "success" you are having with that "sharpener" on other knives is not an indication that it will do well with your H1 knife. People here are not fixating on your pull-through but a lot of the replies are from people with a extensive experience with knives and sharpening and you can believe them when they say that a pull through trashes and edge. You may get a knife to cut a little bit after a session with a pull through but you can be sure you did not do your edge a favor with it.

That U-shaped bend is also not a common experience with A LOT of users, so it may have been something that was under the cardboard.
 
Hi Jraptor,

If we have already refurbished the knife, there is not much I am going to be able to tell. We have good microscopes, but they won't show what was there before it was repaired.

It is quite likely, as mentioned, that the sharpener is the culprit. There are many sharpneners that remove steel, indiscriminately, changing the thickness of the edge. They will often just "tear" off steel leavig chips and can make the tip so thin that it will not penetrate.

While I can't tell what happened to the knife, if will tell me the type of sharpener used, I can, with my 60 years of knife experience, perhaps formulate a thougt on what happened.

sal
 
I have a pretty good video where I sharpened some of my more expensive knives without problems. This little fella has been my touch up sharpener for years. If I need serious work up, not a touch up I use my slide sharpener from AG Russell. I have been collecting blades for decades and have not run into this problem. I am also pretty befuddled with the tip bending in a complete "U". I feel like I have been saying this over and over. I have 2 videos on YouTube under Jraptor59, my original, and my follow up up which both speak volumes about my methods and expectations, with demos. If you have the time I suggest you watch them; they are short. I certainly appreciate your offer and wish I had seen it sooner. Like I said , i'm not going to try and repeat the damages, I thought this knife was uber cool. I will accept your decision and resolution of the incident (and go on with my life).
The sharpener id a Smith's with a carbide side and a ceramic side. It looks simular to the gerber or benchmade handhead sharpeners (which I have had no problems with quick touch up eithers.
I would also like to personally apologize for the nasty tone of the original post. The information was accurate but the wordking and insults were inappropriate. (i was actually horrified). I appreciate your personal involvement in the problem and I hope you can figure out the bend and edge problems.
 
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Is this the sharpener you speak of?
SMI50032.jpg
 
I bet it's this one. Someone gave me one and to one not privy to the dark side, it does seem like a dull knife will cut better after a few strokes. Under a loupe is a different matter, however. Pressing hard and pulling on the carbide side will tear of metal.

ccks.jpg
 
Jraptor said:
I have a pretty good video where I sharpened some of my more expensive knives without problems. This little fella has been my touch up sharpener for years. If I need serious work up, not a touch up I use my slide sharpener from AG Russell. I have been collecting blades for decades and have not run into this problem. I am also pretty befuddled with the tip bending in a complete "U". I feel like I have been saying this over and over. I have 2 videos on YouTube under Jraptor59, my original, and my follow up up which both speak volumes about my methods and expectations, with demos. If you have the time I suggest you watch them; they are short. I certainly appreciate your offer and wish I had seen it sooner. Like I said , i'm not going to try and repeat the damages, I thought this knife was uber cool. I will accept your decision and resolution of the incident (and go on with my life).
The sharpener id a Smith's with a carbide side and a ceramic side. It looks simular to the gerber or benchmade handhead sharpeners (which I have had no problems with quick touch up eithers.
I would also like to personally apologize for the nasty tone of the original post. The information was accurate but the wordking and insults were inappropriate. (i was actually horrified). I appreciate your personal involvement in the problem and I hope you can figure out the bend and edge problems.
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I'm not trying to give you a hard time, really. I'm only trying to understand what's going on here. Yes, the video speaks volumes, but you did not show the knife edge all chipped out, no pictures of the U tip, you only showed the knife for a couple seconds, not even an effort to focus in on the edge. You said you "stuck the knife into a cardboard box/ Did you stab the knife into something that may have been inside the box??":confused:

It's really hard to say what happened to the knife tip. You say it bent like "U" type shape, but again, there was no pictures or anything to show the kind of damage.Was therea steel box under the cardboard? :confused:

If the knife has gone to Spyderco and come back to you, as many folks have already said then it's a real Spyderco. Even Sal mentioned that they use microscopes to check them out. :confused:
 
jRaptor, It's the bent tip that has me concerned. Was it a very small bend, or a fairly large one? If it was pretty small that I can see it getting past you for a second or two and seeming like it happened when it fell into the cardboard. Unless there was something in the cardboard, and it was thinner than a needle it's pretty much impossible that cardboard would bend it from the force of dropping a knife a few feet.

I'm not even attempting to question your integrity. We don't know each other. I just have my over 40 years of working with knives, modifying them, even making a few. Salt knives in H1 are pretty tough and I can see them bending before breaking in some cases but bending back into a U from dropping on cardboard doesn't seem possible. I'll not pretend to be a physics teacher and run the equations but I just don't see it.

The sharpening I can see from the method used. All companies I know warn against that technique somewhere in their paperwork or on their website as it's known for it's destructiveness to steel edges. There are even company(ies) that warn against it that make one in their product line . :rolleyes: but Spyderco at least isn't one of these.

Good luck getting confidence in your knife back as that's even more important than getting a fixed knife back.

Joe
 
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