Handle Grain Orientation

[Twindog]

I could deliver the axe head to target with a rope. The speed and weight of the head/grind etc. does the work.

When the bit sinks into the log, bit geometry along with lateral force is required to "pop the chip free".

I would say that muscle and technique provide the energy, while the geometry and weight of the head focus that energy to accomplish a specific task.

A long, slender handle can convert the energy provided by muscle and technique into axe-head speed, and from there the weight and geometry of the head do the work. The point of proper wood selection, grain orientation and shaping is to ensure that that haft has the strength to transfer energy into work without breaking.

 

[quinton]

I would say that muscle and technique provide the energy, while the geometry and weight of the head focus that energy to accomplish a specific task.

A long, slender handle can convert the energy provided by muscle and technique into axe-head speed, and from there the weight and geometry of the head do the work. The point of proper wood selection, grain orientation and shaping is to ensure that that haft has the strength to transfer energy into work without breaking.

I've watched old, skilled men split wood with a maul, and I have watched big, burly, showoff teenagers split wood with a maul. There really ain't much strength required, but, you wouldn't know that by watching the teenager!

 

[rjdankert]

. . . a spokeshave is of little or no value when working with the wood. Even on riven, straight grained hickory, tear out is WAY more common than curls.

"Tear-out is ugly, but how does it happen? Ground-breaking research that began in the 1950s by Norman C. Franz showed how wood fails when you cut it with hand tools or power tools. Using a movie camera and a milling machine, Franz made amazing photos that pointed out how certain cuts produce torn grain. Franz defined three types of cuts, and only one type causes tearing. As you study the drawings below, the most important thing to remember about tear-out relates to the line that the cutter is traveling on. If the wood fails above this line, no tear-out happens. If it fails below the line, you get tear-out."

"A “Type I” Cut Against the Grain = Tear-out
A “Type I” cut occurs when the wood fails ahead of the tool’s cutting edge. If the tool is cutting against the grain of the board, then the cut goes deeper than intended when the shaving is levered upwards by the tool. Because the failure occurs below the line the cutter is traveling on, you get tear-out."

"A “Type I” Cut With the Grain = No Tear-out
When you have a “Type I” cut and are working with the grain of the board, the wood is levered up ahead of the tool’s cutting edge, but no tear-out occurs because the wood fails above the line the cutter is traveling on."

"A “Type II” Cut = No Tear-out
When you have a “Type II” cut (either with the grain or against it) the wood fails right at the cutting edge. And No tear-out occurs. You can encourage a “Type II” cut in a plane by using a sharp tool, a high angle of attack or a tight mouth aperture."

"A “Type III” Cut Can Cause a “Type I” Cut
A “Type III” cut occurs when the wood fibers are compressed mightily at the cutting edge by a very high angle of attack. This compressed wood can become a problem. It can compress to the point where it becomes a wedge and levers up the wood fibers ahead of the cutting edge, causing torn grain."

Above from
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/your-guide-to-tear-out

"An Analysis of Chip Formation in Wood Machining" by Norman C. Franz:
https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/6042/Analysis_Chip_ocr.pdf?sequence=1

My summary is that tear-out occurs with the presentation of the tool edge to the wood and has nothing to do with wood type.

Bob

P. S. Here is a post from this forum with some opinions included re tear-out:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1142682-How-do-you-handle-it

 

[Square_peg]

Everybody agrees runout is the problem. So you say "horizontal grain is really only an option in a handmade haft of select, riven hickory". Lets take a look at riven hickory in the curved S B handles you show us all the time. First, hickory grows very straight in the clear (no branches or knots) section of the tree. You can only rive to follow the grain. Anyone who has ever riven wood knows that. To get your riven curved horizontal grain haft you would have to find a stick with exactly the curve and size you need. Very very unlikley.

Yes, it would be next to impossible to make a curved haft without at least half of the grain running out. Straight hafts are an option. I select straight hafts for any tool which is two-sided such as an axe with a hardened poll, a double bit or a pulaski.

When I made my offset broad axe haft I selected a branch with the curve I wanted so that the grain could be continuous through the curve. But that's easier with an offset broadaxe haft than it is standard curved single bit haft because the broadaxe only requires one curve. Finding and riving a stave with the 'S' shape of a single bit haft would be a great challenge.

 

[quinton]

"Tear-out is ugly, but how does it happen? Ground-breaking research that began in the 1950s by Norman C. Franz showed how wood fails when you cut it with hand tools or power tools. Using a movie camera and a milling machine, Franz made amazing photos that pointed out how certain cuts produce torn grain. Franz defined three types of cuts, and only one type causes tearing. As you study the drawings below, the most important thing to remember about tear-out relates to the line that the cutter is traveling on. If the wood fails above this line, no tear-out happens. If it fails below the line, you get tear-out."

"A “Type I” Cut Against the Grain = Tear-out
A “Type I” cut occurs when the wood fails ahead of the tool’s cutting edge. If the tool is cutting against the grain of the board, then the cut goes deeper than intended when the shaving is levered upwards by the tool. Because the failure occurs below the line the cutter is traveling on, you get tear-out."

"A “Type I” Cut With the Grain = No Tear-out
When you have a “Type I” cut and are working with the grain of the board, the wood is levered up ahead of the tool’s cutting edge, but no tear-out occurs because the wood fails above the line the cutter is traveling on."

"A “Type II” Cut = No Tear-out
When you have a “Type II” cut (either with the grain or against it) the wood fails right at the cutting edge. And No tear-out occurs. You can encourage a “Type II” cut in a plane by using a sharp tool, a high angle of attack or a tight mouth aperture."

"A “Type III” Cut Can Cause a “Type I” Cut
A “Type III” cut occurs when the wood fibers are compressed mightily at the cutting edge by a very high angle of attack. This compressed wood can become a problem. It can compress to the point where it becomes a wedge and levers up the wood fibers ahead of the cutting edge, causing torn grain."

Above from
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/your-guide-to-tear-out

"An Analysis of Chip Formation in Wood Machining" by Norman C. Franz:
https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/6042/Analysis_Chip_ocr.pdf?sequence=1

My summary is that tear-out occurs with the presentation of the tool edge to the wood and has nothing to do with wood type.

Bob

P. S. Here is a post from this forum with some opinions included re tear-out:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1142682-How-do-you-handle-it

Believe me, Bob, I love to use a spokeshave, but it is quite frustrating using one on hickory, even when blades are kept sharp! I once had a hickory "tearout splinter" wrap around the cutter head of my planer and stop the motor before I could hit the kill switch! Here is a snippet and link on "pecan" workability, and another link from a forum discussing hickory workability. Thanks..

Workability: Difficult to work, with tearout being common during machining operations if cutting edges are not kept sharp; the wood tends to blunt cutting edges. Glues, stains, and finishes well. Responds well to steam bending.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/pecan/
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?84275-Workability-of-Hickory

 

[Lieblad]

......

 

[quinton]

Reduce tear out !
Dont shave against the grain..
Of course not always possible, but always strive for...

With hickory, you can get tearout going either direction, and only inches apart!

 

[rjdankert]

Believe me, Bob, I love to use a spokeshave, but it is quite frustrating using one on hickory, even when blades are kept sharp! I once had a hickory "tearout splinter" wrap around the cutter head of my planer and stop the motor before I could hit the kill switch! Here is a snippet and link on "pecan" workability, and another link from a forum discussing hickory workability. Thanks..

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/pecan/
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?84275-Workability-of-Hickory

Thanks for the reply. The workability description in the Wood Database for Pecan is exactly the same for the Hickory's and has the caveat "if cutting edges are not kept sharp". I believe your spokeshave is sharp so wouldn't be the problem. But as some of the posters on Sawmill Creek mentioned Hickory is hard and hard on tools. Some of the posters, I think most, didn't have a problem with using power tools on Hickory. But on to tear-out. Tear-out is when a splinter is levered out of a piece of wood and the tip of the splinter is broken off. To get the splinter started the edge of the tool goes below its intended line. The tool can only lift the splinter by going "against the grain". This is not possible going "with the grain".

With hickory, you can get tearout going either direction, and only inches apart!

This is true, but I believe that would be due to grain direction changing. I've planed boards that had tear-out on one end coming out of the planer. Lowered the cutter head, turned the board around and fed the board in the opposite direction only to find the first tear-out gone but now it has tear-out on the other end.

Bob

 

[quinton]

Thanks for the reply. The workability description in the Wood Database for Pecan is exactly the same for the Hickory's and has the caveat "if cutting edges are not kept sharp". I believe your spokeshave is sharp so wouldn't be the problem. But as some of the posters on Sawmill Creek mentioned Hickory is hard and hard on tools. Some of the posters, I think most, didn't have a problem with using power tools on Hickory. But on to tear-out. Tear-out is when a splinter is levered out of a piece of wood and the tip of the splinter is broken off. To get the splinter started the edge of the tool goes below its intended line. The tool can only lift the splinter by going "against the grain". This is not possible going "with the grain".



This is true, but I believe that would be due to grain direction changing. I've planed boards that had tear-out on one end coming out of the planer. Lowered the cutter head, turned the board around and fed the board in the opposite direction only to find the first tear-out gone but now it has tear-out on the other end.

Bob

I realize all of that, Bob. Hickory is just difficult to work with bladed hand tools because of the tearout. I know that one must go against the grain to get tearout, but what I said was true about getting tearout going both directions and only inches apart. It is where the grain is wavy where it "flows" around pin knots that were in the heartwood. If you haven't worked with it, you should to get an idea of what I'm talking about. Here is a quote from another guy on WoodWeb talking about the same problems I have mentioned.

From contributor D:
Ditto. If it has any defect or strange grain it will chip out (usually so bad you can't fix it), and if you feed it opposite direction, it takes another chunk.

 

[Curt Hal]

I cut my teeth on the Old Axeman's movies with the USDA Forerstry Service. I also have respect for his 40+ years as a forester. I don't know what your experience is, Quinton, so I won't comment on that. I have to go with Old Axeman on this one out of respect. I always look for grain that will run parallel to the wedge. 95% of broken axe handles without parallel grain seems convincing to me.

 

[rjdankert]

I realize all of that, Bob. Hickory is just difficult to work with bladed hand tools because of the tearout. I know that one must go against the grain to get tearout, but what I said was true about getting tearout going both directions and only inches apart. It is where the grain is wavy where it "flows" around pin knots that were in the heartwood. If you haven't worked with it, you should to get an idea of what I'm talking about. Here is a quote from another guy on WoodWeb talking about the same problems I have mentioned.

. . .



This is true. . .

Bob

 

[quinton]

Here is something else I've noticed over the years.. Homemade handles from riven white hickory just don't fail! I don't think I've ever seen one fail. I've seen them abused beyond belief, but never have "I" seen one in two separate pieces. I truly believe I could make a horizontal grained helve, and send you to the woods with orders to bring it back to me in 2 separate pieces, and without the help of tools, you could not do it!

Here's where I'm going with this; Of the helves I've seen failed for basically no reason, ALL were manufactured helves, and ALL were FIRE TEMPERED. Tempering hickory does work, it definitely makes the wood harder. I also tend to think that heating the wood can cause premature, or unexpected failure. This would be caused by the moisture content within the wood. When heated, the moisture turns to steam, and builds pressure within the helve that causes the grain to start separating. This would lead to helve failure.. Fire tempered helves are the only ones I have ever seen completely delaminate along the grain. I could tell you how to quickly create an experiment to support my theory, but, you're wife would ban you from using the microwave

I've been using, Google lately as a drunkard would use a lamppost (for support rather than illumination) on my theory that "heat" some how causes handle failure, rather than grain orientation. I have found several articles that address this very thing. Just like I said above, I have never seen a homemade riven handle fail regardless of grain direction!

I know, Bernie has witnessed a lot of haft failures in his career that he blames on bad grain. At this point I really feel like those failures are due to the runout, and kiln dried stock that basically all helves are made from these days. I have also read several articles on hickory wheel spokes(thanks, Twindog) that recommend the grain of hickory be oriented in the line of the load, or in an axe handle that would be horizontally for the flex that is desired, and talked about in vintage helves used for felling or bucking.

Here are some snips from the articles I have found. I have also came across the word "brash", that I heard the old timers use to describe bad hickory when it came to axe helves.. I haven't heard, or seen that word used for decades, and at one time thought it was a word they made up. Also discovered the word "brooming", which is used describe how good hickory breaks, as is seen in this pic I posted a few pages back.

At trial, MacPherson‘s attorney called upon experienced carriage and wheel makers for their opinions as to the wheels‘ appropriateness for road travel. Some of the experts had worked on both carriage and automobile wheels.102 Each had worked at least twenty years in the business; a couple had worked close to forty years.103 These tradesmen agreed that the spokes in the wheel were of inferior hickory wood. They explained that they could tell primarily because of the way the spokes snapped squarely off, rather than coming apart and leaving behind ―brooming.‖104 The witnesses surmised that the wood from which the spokes had been made had not been left to dry or ―season‖ naturally, in the open air.105 Some thought a kiln had been used, and they explained how kiln drying made the wood brittle and prone to snap.106 They also explained what they looked for in wood they used to make wheels, how they examined the grain on a spoke to tell its quality.107 The expert witnesses informed the court that the only way to examine a spoke‘s quality thoroughly would be to look at the ends and at the side, and that if the side were covered with paint, some would have to be scraped away to make a full examination.108 If, however, the spoke were coated only in oil, to protect it, it could still be examined.109

Why is air dried wood better?
More and more small-shop woodworkers are discovering that they prefer to work with well air dried hardwoods. This is, of course, contrary to the conventional wisdom promoted by the lumber industry for the last century.
Let’s not forget, however, that much of the world’s finest furniture was made before kiln drying technology was developed. Did those makers have secrets that we don’t know today? Not at all.
When we say well air dried lumber, what is involved? This is certainly not green lumber. In fact there is a considerable investment of time and science in the preparation of good air dried lumber. But the results are worth it. So then, just why is air dried wood superior?
⦁ There are no internal tensions “baked” into the wood. How many times have you ripped a board, only to have it clamp down on the sawblade, or twist off in some unexpected direction? Doesn’t happen with air-dried lumber.
⦁ Kiln dried wood is brittler and much more prone to chipping out when worked with hand tools or powered knife tools. A nice piece of air-dried cherry or walnut is a revelation to stroke with a hand plane or spokeshave.
⦁ Kiln dried wood has most often lost as much as 20% of its color. Even when not “steamed”, the high temperatures experienced kill some of the subtler color features of the grain.
⦁ Unless kiln dried lumber is kept in a fully climate-controlled building from the moment it comes out of the kiln, it will quickly re-absorb moisture from the ambient air, thus returning to the same moisture content as properly air-dried lumber. But the internal tensions, brittleness, and lack of color remain. How many lumber yards do you know of that keep their lumber in closed and air-conditioned buildings?
Typically, it is said that lumber must dry a year for every inch of thickness. My preferred formula is two summers for the first inch of thickness, then another year for each additional inch of thickness. Furthermore, planks thicker than 12/4 should season yet another year. Thus a 16/4 plank would take a minimum of 5 ½ years to be ready to use. All fine hardwood trees should be felled in the winter, when the sap is down, so that the first nominal year is usually more like a year and a half.

Kiln Drying Makes the Cookie Crumble
Now add to the mix a kiln dried wood. Kiln drying hardens the wood fibers just like most things harden when they are baked. Take a flour tortilla and put it in the oven. In a few minutes you have a crispy tortilla that will break when you try to bend it. This is what is happening in a lumber kiln to some extent. Kilns also use steam to lower this shock and keep the fibers more pliable. Take that same tortilla but wrap it in a wet paper towel then bake it. You will get a warm, but more flexible tortilla. Anybody getting hungry yet? Air dried wood does not rely on heat to force evaporation so the fibers do not harden and retain their natural pliability. The woods that are the most strong and handle dynamic forces best are ones that are air dried regardless of species.
http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/wood-strength-101/

Hickory makes a No 1 sledge hammer or ax handle while it would be worthless in a carriage wheel for a tire could not be set tight without warping the wheel out of shape Small second growth meadow hickory makes good handles but worthless spokes Pick handles are best made of stiff hickory but all small tool handles are best made of small second growth hickory I have purchased quite a good many handles from the south but they were very light and stiff many of them I broke short off I prefer to cancel orders than fill them with brash stock Hickory should be cut in Ohio in the intervening months of October and March Hickory sours in warm weather and when dry is brash Dry kiln hickory makes poor handles anyhow but kilndrying makes good hickory better for spokes in consequence of perfect seasoning which is necessary in making good wheels This process also stiffens hickory which is necessary in a spoke but damaging in handles of nearly all kinds

https://books.google.com/books?id=x...onepage&q=air dried hickory axe helve&f=false

 

[jblyttle]

I've been using, Google lately as a drunkard would use a lamppost (for support rather than illumination) on my theory that "heat" some how causes handle failure, rather than grain orientation. I have found several articles that address this very thing. Just like I said above, I have never seen a homemade riven handle fail regardless of grain direction!
Here are some snips from the articles I have found. I have also came across the word "brash", that I heard the old timers use to describe bad hickory when it

This is exactly why threads like this and questioning the prevailing wisdom is valid. It may be a long thought filled conversation that concludes with agreeing that the prevailing wisdom is correct, but at the very WORST it brings historical perspective to the surface and gives people at least a better understanding as to the WHY of any given topic.

 

[quinton]

This is exactly why threads like this and questioning the prevailing wisdom is valid. It may be a long thought filled conversation that concludes with agreeing that the prevailing wisdom is correct, but at the very WORST it brings historical perspective to the surface and gives people at least a better understanding as to the WHY of any given topic.

Thanks, JB.
"Cross grain" handles are considered BAD by most axe users. When a handle is described as cross grained, most envision a horizontally grained handle.. or, a handle with "horrible" grain orientation. But, back in the day, cross grain was "THE" term used to describe "run out". Just as runout is very bad in handles, it was also very bad in hickory spokes because of the most certain failure it represented. Could the term "cross grain" be the reason that horizontal grained helves got such a bad name??

The National Hickory Association an organization men interested in the manufacture of hickory spokes rims have devised a set of grading rules in with that recently outlined by the Forest Service of United States Department of Agriculture whose have been noted in the Crow Bar from time to These rules are of more vital interest to the of vehicles and materials than to the general but concern the latter inasmuch as they what promise to be the accepted standards of the future Heretofore the terms second growth and forest been so loosely applied that they have resulted in and have come to mean good and poor wood with total disregard to their original meaning There has been much discrimination in the trade defects such as knots and checks but little has been about cross grain The tests have continually shown in such material as spokes cross grain is one of the serious defects
The most useful result of the vehicle investigation is the placing of red hickoryiin its class The real worth of red hickory as shown by test and not by color is a point that should not be sight of Following are the rules to be adopted Spoke Rules
A Grade
A Grade is the first and highest grade Of all timber of very dense growth must be straight grain free from streaks stains and all defects
B Grade
B Grade is the second grade and must be straight grain of dense growth Of all white and of or part red and part white timber The red or part and part white must be equal to or better in quality the white in this grade All spokes in this grade must be free from all and no spokes shall be more than one quarter bastard
C Grade
C Grade is the third grade and must be of quality of either white red or white and red mixed timber This grade will admit of spokes of good quality timber admitted in the A and B Grades on account of cross and all slight blemishes such as iron streaks and stains but that are equal in strength to a clear spoke of grade Cross Grain The grain shall not run in the length the spoke at any place at a greater angle than one inch eighteen Short curves or dips in the grain not to be included this grade V
D Grade
D Grade is the fourth grade The timber in this although clear and straight grain of white or red or and red mixed is of a weight and quality not admitted the higher grades Also spokes of a high quality of timber equal in strength with the straight grain spokes in this grade but with blemishes such as iron streaks stains and defects such as knots and bird pecks that are sound also cross grain provided the grain shall not run in the length of the spoke at any place at a greater angle than one inch in twelve Short curves or dips in the grain shall not extend more than one third of the width or thickness of the spoke

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

When a straight double-bit handle has perfectly horizontal grain it does show the runout pretty clearly. Although to completely be rid of this you need a perfectly oriented grain.

 

[Square_peg]

Why is air dried wood better?

⦁ There are no internal tensions “baked” into the wood. How many times have you ripped a board, only to have it clamp down on the sawblade, or twist off in some unexpected direction? Doesn’t happen with air-dried lumber.

I will dispute that. Pinch still happens with air dried wood. Last couple years we've been air drying a lot of lumber. We still occasionally get pinch on the table saw.

 

[quinton]

I will dispute that. Pinch still happens with air dried wood. Last couple years we've been air drying a lot of lumber. We still occasionally get pinch on the table saw.

True, that occasional pinch would be caused by reaction wood, not stresses created by the kiln. "Most" trees will have some degree of reaction wood if the tree were leaning a little. That is why "handle trees" should be selected from level ground where they grow straight.

Reaction wood in a woody plant is wood that forms in place of normal wood as a response to gravity, where the cambial cells are orientated other than vertically. It is typically found on branches and leaning stems. It is an example of self optimisation and the axiom of uniform stress in trees.

 

[BG_Farmer]

quinton is at least right about one thing. I am not done with this. Everybody agrees runout is the problem. So you say "horizontal grain is really only an option in a handmade haft of select, riven hickory". Lets take a look at riven hickory in the curved S B handles you show us all the time. First, hickory grows very straight in the clear (no branches or knots) section of the tree. You can only rive to follow the grain. Anyone who has ever riven wood knows that. To get your riven curved horizontal grain haft you would have to find a stick with exactly the curve and size you need. Very very unlikley. Since this option is out you have to put a saw or a blade ( drawknife or spokeshave) to your riven stick. Do tell us how you can do that without making runout with horizontal grain. This is one of the reasons I put straight handles on S B axes. Now if you use vertical grain you could put a blade to the stick. If you used a straight, vertical grain handle (sound familiar) you can also put a slim profile so you get the flex you are always talking about. And dont tell us to steam the curves into the haft, it dosent work. What say you horizontal boys?

Thanks for coming back. I agree with most of what you say as far as horizontal grain may not be practical in some curved handles due to runout. In a straight handle, I think it can be argued that horizontal grain is possibly slightly more suitably and certainly no less suitable with hickory, sawn or riven. I'm basing this on the toughness measurement for hickory and on the results of testing wooden bats. And relatively limited experience hasn't shown me any breaks that did not exhibit that clean shear of runout. Realistically, I'm happy seeing any straight grain orientation in a straight handle and whatever can be used without much runout in a curved handle.

Anyway, I am sorry this discussion got so hot. My personal issue with that relatively small section of your manual is how it is used by others. I have seen reviewers pan and trash a handle with grain that is only a little off vertical, horizontal grain with no runout, etc., then in other cases hold up as example of perfection handles where the grain is perfectly vertical but runs out to the side. I think the problem is people with no experience with broken handles may not understand that what you say about straight grain is probably more important than orientation, added to the fact that checking for runout can be a little tricky, not rocket science, but harder than looking at the end grain.

Finally, this is a fairly esoteric discussion. Those of you who have experienced vertical grain breaking less are credible to me. Your preference won't hurt me.

PS. My comments apply to hickory. I will use vertical on ash handles for certain to avoid growth ring separation on overstrikes. This may be the big payoff for me as I have access currently to thousands of bd/ft of ash for free!

 

[rjdankert]

. . .Could the term "cross grain" be the reason that horizontal grained helves got such a bad name??

I could see how that could happen. Cross grain is a term describing how the grain runs through a piece of stock.

From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cross-grained :
"cross-grained (krôs′grānd′, krŏs′-)
adj.
1. Having an irregular, transverse, or diagonal grain, as opposed to a parallel grain."

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_grain :
"The two basic categories of grain are straight and cross grain. Straight grain runs parallel to the longitudinal axis of the piece. Cross grain deviates from the longitudinal axis in two ways, spiral grain or diagonal grain."

I have assumed the discussion is about STRAIGHT GRAINED handles in axe heads. Which is better, orientation #1 or #2?:

I could see how number two above might be called "cross grain" because the grain runs across the width of the head.

Bob

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Can't see the picture.