Has an axis lock failed on anyone?

Keep using that M16, and I bet it starts developing vertical play. Now that the liner can't wedge in any further, any further wear will result in less pressure against the blade tang, and hence, play.

The best liner lock designs don't have angled tangs, they have a concave tang. That way, the amount of wear required to move further right increases exponentially as the knife wears. I'm sure the same principle could be applied to a Compression Lock.
 
Joe Dirt said:
Am I wrong in thinking that with wear the compression lock will get more play?
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It's not supposed to develop play as it wears. As the locking insert wears, it moves further over to the right, and up the tang ramp, just like a liner lock does. My only worry is that, with wear, the locking insert will lose contact area, due to the fact the further over the locking insert is seated, and the more the bend in the locking liner, the shorter the length of the liner becomes. I'm worried that if the bend in the liner is increased (if the locking insert works it's way over to the right scale of the handle), the locking insert might eventually lose contact with the anvil pin (stop pin). Does that make any sense???

Best wishes,
3Guardsmen
 
It can't wear any further ever. It's reached the end of the road. It'd have to go through the aluminum handle.

I flicked it hard maybe 50 times a day for the first month I had it. Very tough knife.
 
Artfully Martial said:
It can't wear any further ever. It's reached the end of the road. It'd have to go through the aluminum handle.
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I disagree: everytime the end of the liner rubs over the back of the tang on opening, it'll wear a bit more. The fact that it can't move any farther right doesn't really matter.
 
Gryffin said:
Keep using that M16, and I bet it starts developing vertical play. Now that the liner can't wedge in any further, any further wear will result in less pressure against the blade tang, and hence, play.

The best liner lock designs don't have angled tangs, they have a concave tang. That way, the amount of wear required to move further right increases exponentially as the knife wears. I'm sure the same principle could be applied to a Compression Lock.
Click to expand...

And Benchmade uses concave tangs with their liner locks. :) At leat the 910 and the 880 that I've seen had them.
 
BM patented the concave locking surface, I believe.

How much up and down movement is the lockbar of the compression lock capable of? The tang surface is angled to compensate for wear, but the pin isn't. If the top of the lock bar wears at all, it needs to move upward to maintain contact; while if the bottom wears, it has to move sideways deeper into the angled tang face.
 
All I can say about the M16 is that it's the most play resistant knife I've ever used, period. That thing has really been abused. I don't imagine it'll ever develop play, just because I think the stuff I've done with it would have brought that out by now.
 
WadeF,

If you'd like, I can loan one of my compression-locked knives to you. Send an e-mail tbrogan1 at netzero dot com with your address.
 
hardheart said:
How much up and down movement is the lockbar of the compression lock capable of? The tang surface is angled to compensate for wear, but the pin isn't. If the top of the lock bar wears at all, it needs to move upward to maintain contact; while if the bottom wears, it has to move sideways deeper into the angled tang face.
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That's a really interesting question. It might even explain the reported vertical blade play in compression lock knives.

If the locking tab wears at the bottom, or if the blade tang wears at the locking surface, the locking tab will just move a bit further to the right.

However, if the top of the locking tab, or the stop pin, wears, the locking tab might wedge against the blade tang, but not against the stop pin; in that case, the blade would be free to move slightly, flexing the locking tab up to meet the stop pin.

I'd love to hear Sal Glesser's take on this...
 
Interesting idea, but as far as I know, a para has never developed vertical play--it just ships on virtually all of them. If anything, the play has actually been reduced since new. It distinctly seems to be smaller, but that could definitely all be in my head.
 
I have to ask why would virtually all Para's ship with veritical play? Is this really true?
 
Huh... maybe it's a fitting problem, then? The locking tab might not be contacting the stop pin.
 
As best I can surmise from other people's posts, most paras have off centered blades, sort of messed up edges on the thumb ramp and slight vertical play.

I thought it might be the stop pin thing too, but I held the crosslock forward (towards the front of the knife) so that it would alter thet play if it were going back and hitting the stop pin, but it didn't feel any different when moving the tip. Also, I've carefully watched the crosslock to see where it goes, and no movement is evident. Very tricky.
 
Funny how this thread started by asking about the Axis lock, and has basically turned into a review of Spyderco's compression lock as well. Hmmm...

Anyway, as I mentioned, I recently sent back my Para due to the forward back blade play. It would now appear that it is not an uncommon thing. It should be interesting to see what Spyderco says about it.
 
It may be a while because Sale would not have a reason to come into this thread because it's not in the Spyderco forum nor does the title say anything about Spyderco.

Maybe someone should throw a link to this thread over there. Is that allowed?
 
You can just send him a message. I'm not sure why QC stuff plagues the Para, especially given its massive popularity, you'd think everything would be figured out by now.

I have, however, began to determine that MOST of the para's defects are the result of the compression lock--looking at pictures of other compression lock knives (outside of the para, obviously), I'm noticing a lot of off centered blades. How much you want to bet they have slight vertical play?

It does quite bother me, for a 115 dollar knife....but otherwise, the knife is so good I don't notice. I still think it's worth it, but really, this long into production, there's no good reason to still have this sort of thing going on.

The para is probably my favorite all around EDC, for whatever difference it makes to potential para buyers. Once you get over the off centered blade aesthetics (it doesn't rub in any case I've heard of) and when you've used the lock, you definitely have faith in it...so the slight (and I do mean very slight) vertical play doesn't bother you as much...kind of a compromise....
 
The compression lock on the Para Military and the Yojimbo among others are made to be self correcting much like a liner or frame lock is. As the lock wears it will move farther over on the blade where the two mate together so it always remains tight. Based on my own observations when there is play that develops in a liner or compression lock just taking the knife apart and bending the lock a little more so it forces itself to move out and over the blade farther fixes any play experienced.

As far as reliabilty. Both locks are good but fewer moving parts is always a plus. The compression wins here.

On strength. It would take a great deal of force to compress either lock to failure. I venture to say the stop pin would give out from the handles buckling before either lock would fail. They are both very strong and very reliable locks.

As for ease of use. To me the axis lock is easier to use. The compression is harder to get to for me and I can't say it is my favorite lock because I find it awkward but neither is the axis my peronal fave.

The axis locks can get crud in them and pocket lint can jam the spring from working. Pocket lint can also jam a compression or liner or screw with a lock back though. But of all these the liner and compression seem to fair better against the dreaded pocket lint build up issue. Personally these kind of problems are few and far between and have little bearing on my reason for purchasing one lock over another though.

These kind of 'my dog is better than your dog' threads are always amusing. Thanks for the laughs guys.

STR
 
STR said:
These kind of 'my dog is better than your dog' threads are always amusing. Thanks for the laughs guys.
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For the record, my dog is better than your dog. ;)
 
It was suggested that I look into this thread. I'm at your service.

The Compression lock is fairly new. We began making them about 2k. As we learn more about the lock, we refine. We've shipped thousands of compression lock knives with no complaints and no play. occasionally we'll get play, but that an angle issue, or a reaming issue.

The ball bearing lock is newer still and is likewise being refined. I'm confident that both locks will get better and better.

The new ball bearing holder/plunger permits a smaller ball and easier unlocking. The first model using this is our P'kal folder. This is an example of the way we continually refine.

Spyderco makes lock-backs, linerlocks, integral linerlocks, compression locks, integral compression locks, ball bearing locks, (also with ball bearing holder), our most recent patent is on the "stop-lock" which is not yet in a production model.

The Compression lock, ball bearing lock and stop-lock are Spyderco inventions.

All locks have advantages and disadvantages. Quality is more of an issue than design in most cases. They are all difficult to make well. Wear is result of the material being used. Strength is usually based on the materials as well.

sal
 
Thank you for answering. It's actually kind of unbelieveable to hear from the actual owner of a knife company (Spyderco). That's pretty cool sir.
 
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