Hatred of AO knives

[firebert]

Yeah it's a really easy fix. It's just something I wouldn't want to rely on in an emergency. I guess that's what my ZT 0500 is for.

 

[Absintheur]

Could it be your AO eyesight isn't quite 20/20 then? lol.

I've said this plenty of times before, let's not get caught up on this "speed" subject. I use one everyday, it opens quickly, with one hand, it obviously cuts...I seem to find purpose??

Although I'm unsure how you measure this, AO was not developed to be the "fastest" on the planet.

Perhaps you could explain to me it's purpose, I really don't know what makes it advantageous. I am being serious here. I have seen groups of guys standing around just flicking their AO's open over and over, and I know in my shop if a guy had one it was sure to be opened in front of me for any reason at all, even if it was just to clean a finger nail. I know not all AO owners are like this but I seldom see guys doing this with non AO (or non flipper) knives.

I am not knocking AO...each to their own but with the way people in here constantly complain about how people around the react to their knives why would you want one so easily mistaken for a switchblade? There are numerous threads about this weekly. Just trying to understand...

 

[Halfneck]

I've long been a fan of Spyderco knives and their opening holes. As a kid my 1st 1-handed opening knife was either my Pacific Cutlery Bali-song or blade dropping my Sears 110 knock-off. The next move in opening technology (after Spyderco) I played with was an auto knife while in the Army. After leaning against a piece of equipment and having it fire in my pocket I was done with that.

When AO knives 1st started hitting the scene I pretty much disregarded them. Part of me was leery about extra parts to fail, and still a bit gun-shy from my Automatic accident.

Well the local hunting store has a guy working there who is a Kershaw fan. His EDC was a 1 of 500 Spec-Bump that he has used quite a bit and has nothing but praise for the knife. Lately I'd been looking at getting another knife to play with as a work EDC and was wanting a wharncliffe type blade. I was looking at the Spyderco Urban, but after playing around with a Kershaw Leek, I decided to order a D2 Composite Leek from 2 Brothers. This is my 1st Kershaw in years, and my 1st AO knife ever. I'm looking forward to the fun of watching the blade flick open and the interesting look of the composite blade. Not sure if I'll feel comfortable enough with an AO knife for it to replace my Strider GB or Emerson HD-7 as my usual EDC, but that is just me.

Is an AO prone to fail or more complicated than a standard 1-hander? I think as long as it's a quality AO, it's probably good to go.

Is the AO less safe than a standard 1-hander? I'd think in this day an age of frivolous lawsuits, that if that was the case, Kershaw's Legal Dept. would of stepped in and added disclaimers all over the box or made waivers to sign.

Is an AO faster to open than a standard 1-hander? I'd say it depends on the person opening the knife.

Is it interesting and fun? A big Yes. Hand any non-knife aficionado a standard 1-hand opening knife and an AO knife. I'll bet you money they end up opening the AO more than the standard 1-hander.

Nothing wrong with AO in my opinion, and it's fun to boot. The fun factor might also be the "Gateway Drug" that encourages a non-knife person to become a knife-nut.

 

[Thomas W]

Perhaps you could explain to me it's purpose, I really don't know what makes it advantageous. I am being serious here.

It's hard to believe that you are serious. I mean you're seemingly a knife guy, understands knives, yet you don't see purpose in an AO? Like you're saying that you don't see how it assists an ELU when actually opening the knife? There has been more than a few instances posted in just this thread alone on how SpeedSafe has purpose in their lives. Did you read those?

You don't see purpose in how AO can propel a blade to an open position with easy movement from a stud or flipper? Serious. No thinking, no hassle, just lending a helping...well (torsion bar) hand. Not sure what's not to understand?

To assisting and bringing a smile to the novice, to helping those with medical issues, AO assuredly has purpose, and it doesn't take too much to figure that out.

the way people in here constantly complain about how people around the react to their knives why would you want one so easily mistaken for a switchblade? There are numerous threads about this weekly. Just trying to understand...

People are complaining about this with knives in general not just AO's. Maybe we should just stop carrying our blades?

 

[firebert]

The fun factor might also be the "Gateway Drug" that encourages a non-knife person to become a knife-nut.

I believe this. My first AO models are what got me interested in knives.

 

[lpd10574]

Is this your position as a citizen, or as a LEO. Recently you said:



Just curious.

I think if someone wants an automatic knife and is an normal law abiding citizen then he/she should be allowed to posses one. I have never, as an LEO seen an instance where an automatic knife is any more of a benefit than a good manual opener.

I don't change that view for the sake of an AO knife. I don't like the design, but I would never suggest that someone should not be allowed to own one. Let people buy what they want.

As far as the law goes, I think we are just splitting hairs here when we differentiate between an AO and an auto. I personally believe you should be able to own both. One is not more advantageous than the other.

If I were going to buy a knife that, because of the particular blade design ( the ZT0300 comes to mind) does not lend itself to a thumbstud or a hole for opening, then I believe you should have a choice between AO or Auto.

I appreciate you asking though, nice to know someone reads my post

 

[3Guardsmen]

Why is it that, when a person (the OP in this instance) asks a question, and people give their opinions, people who feel oppositely come out and try to shut down the conversation? Can't people defend their positions without resorting to personal jabs and attempts to derail the discussion?

When I use a knife, I pay attention to what I'm doing I guess.

That's actually kind of funny, "I guess", because Thomas is pretty much saying that A.O. was created for people who don't really know what their doing when they open a knife. In my opinion, an A.O. knife, after an auto or wave-opening knife, is the last type of knife I'd feel safe having a "newb" try to open.

Buy what you like and leave what you don't like on the shelf.
No one is forcing anyone to buy any of the above mentioned over the other.
Why make such a big deal over it?

Why do you consider people's opinions to be a "such a big deal"? What harm are they causing you?

This thread is pretty much an exercise in futility.

Aren't all threads that involve differing views?

What is great about America, if you don't like something, shut up and don't buy it and vice versa.

Excuse me, did you just say, "shut up?" Since when are we, as Americans, known to keep our opinions to ourselves?:thumbup: Why would anyone want to have people "shut up" on a knife discussion board, unless of course it's because they can't intelligently defend their position?

Regards,
3G

 

[3Guardsmen]

I think if someone wants an automatic knife and is an normal law abiding citizen then he/she should be allowed to posses one. I have never, as an LEO seen an instance where an automatic knife is any more of a benefit than a good manual opener.

I don't change that view for the sake of an AO knife. I don't like the design, but I would never suggest that someone should not be allowed to own one. Let people buy what they want.

As far as the law goes, I think we are just splitting hairs here when we differentiate between an AO and an auto. I personally believe you should be able to own both. One is not more advantageous than the other.

If I were going to buy a knife that, because of the particular blade design ( the ZT0300 comes to mind) does not lend itself to a thumbstud or a hole for opening, then I believe you should have a choice between AO or Auto.

I appreciate you asking though, nice to know someone reads my post

Ditto to everything you just said!:thumbup:

Regards,
3G

 

[SPXTrader]

Not to start a rant or anything but in all my 10 years as a police officer I have never seen one instance where I was relieved a civilian had a manual opener rather than an auto. If a guy want to carry a more expensive knife that opens a half second quicker, who cares. I'm just saying, I have never understood the logic behind this. if anyone else can shed some light on this please enlighten the grasshopper.

I think if someone wants an automatic knife and is an normal law abiding citizen then he/she should be allowed to posses one. I have never, as an LEO seen an instance where an automatic knife is any more of a benefit than a good manual opener.

Sorry, I still see a contradiction here.

And the current laws on the books regarding AO and switchblades are fairly distinct - not "splitting hairs". As a LEO, I would have thought you would know the distinction between the two. They have been discussed at length here many times before.

And 3G, opposing opinions create discussion. I don't see anyone trying to shut down the conversation. After all, you have had and continue to exercise your freedom to let us hear your opinions!

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

I started this thread to get peoples opinions on AO knives. We don't need to fight, I wanted simple opinions, not elaborate stories trying to prove their side of the conflict. I guarantee that nobody here is going to be swayed by your stories. I want your opinion, not a justification of it and an attack at other members, relax people. Sorry, I just hate to see one of my post start a civil war between us since we are supposed to have common grounds (knives) and there is no reason to fight over petty things. Thank you.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Thomas, I did preface my post with a title stating, "In my opinion."

I would quite disagree 3G. We constantly get mail from our base thanking us for the benefits that AO's bring to their specific knife need situation.

I'm a part of your fan base, Thomas, and I have almost as many Kershaws as I do Spydercos, however, I've always hoped that more manuals (non-assisted openers) would be made by you guys, and you certainly have not let me down in that regard.:thumbup:

It works well in my world, and I own most every style of knife available.

I quite sure it does, it just doesn't work quite as well for me.

AO's are indeed a most successful category within the knife world, I don't think you get to be a category by being a gimmick.

I don't know about that. I'm sure TAD Gear thinks people would be unable to open their folding knives in the dark if it weren't for Tritium thumbstuds as well.

Wonder why that is, more AO offerings than ever before I mean? Maybe more popular and helpful than you might imagine?

I doubt it. It's most likely because the knife industry is fickle! At some point in time, I expect every folder will be an A.O. with a recurved, tiger-striped, S30V blade, and a grooved, 'tactical green' colored, G-10 handle. Not to mention, the knives will all have been designed by 'covert operators' from around the globe.

Not to disagree with everything you're saying 3G, but there is better vocabulary on the books concerning AO's now than there ever has been. Being in the middle of the TX. case, the situation is far from finished, let's talk once it's all over. It's knives in general that we all need to be concerned about, not just AO's.

Sounds good to me.:thumbup:

I'm just not feeling your words today 3G, as again, I don't find AO's any more difficult or dangerous than any other style out there.

As an employee of one of the knife companies that brought A.O. knives to the market, I certainly wouldn't expect that you'd be "feeling my words", today or any other.

You sure we're talking about the same kind of knives here?

Cute, Thomas, but yes, we're talking about the same knives.

Regards,
3G

 

[kneedeep]

One of the biggest arguments against AO seems to be the potential for failure of the mechanism. As I pointed out previously, Kershaw's SpeedSafe adds only one additional part in most models, two exceptions being the Offset (two torsion bars) and the Cyclone variants (adds parts to manually disable the torsion bar).

If the torsion bar fails, the knife is certainly easier to open than the average slipjoint with a nail notch, and it will still lock open.

I personally find AO quite useful, and have found myself in many situations where a one handed manual opening has been impractical, difficult, or ill advised. And no, I am not dependent on AO, I carry and use a SAK daily along with at least one auto or AO. I don't have a problem with opening the AO's discreetly, I just do the same thing I do with the SAK, use two hands, or I intentionally block the spine of the blade to slow it's opening.

 

[3Guardsmen]

And 3G, opposing opinions create discussion. I don't see anyone trying to shut down the conversation.

Look harder.

No one is forcing anyone to buy any of the above mentioned over the other.
Why make such a big deal over it?

if we didn't have folks who thought the sun sat and rose with their thoughts on any given subject

This thread is pretty much an exercise in futility.

if you don't like something, shut up and don't buy it

Regards,
3G

 

[SPXTrader]

Sorry 3G, I see opinions!

 

[3Guardsmen]

If the torsion bar fails, the knife is certainly easier to open than the average slipjoint with a nail notch, and it will still lock open.

But it will not stay closed (no detent), and I think that's probably a major point of contention.

Regards,
3G

 

[3Guardsmen]

Sorry 3G, I see opinions!

Yes, Sir. And it was my opinion that certain people who didn't like hearing that there were people who disliked A.O. were trying to shut them up.

Regards,
3G

 

[Thomas W]

I'm unsure how to respond to you tonight 3G .

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

But it will not stay closed (no detent), and I think that's probably a major point of contention.

Regards,
3G

There's this thing called a warranty. En.wikipedia.org/wiki/warranty
You might want to sit down for this one, it means they fix what breaks. Very novel concept. I wish knife makers offered it, wait, they do.

 

[lpd10574]

Sorry, I still see a contradiction here.

And the current laws on the books regarding AO and switchblades are fairly distinct - not "splitting hairs". As a LEO, I would have thought you would know the distinction between the two. They have been discussed at length here many times before.

And 3G, opposing opinions create discussion. I don't see anyone trying to shut down the conversation. After all, you have had and continue to exercise your freedom to let us hear your opinions!

I do see the difference in how the law is written, but I think you are misunderstanding what I was trying to get across. The law is written based on mechanics of what actually opens the knife, and how much help that knife requires to open it. opening a knife about 1/4 of the way so that it springs open should notbe any different than pressing a button to open it the full way. I disagree with it and say that making such a subtle difference is "splitting hairs" in what constitutes legal or not. I know what the law is, I don't like it and don't understand its original intent.

Secondly, what i meant by saying that I have never seen one instance where I was relieved a civilian had a manual opener rather than an auto, is that I believe that most people who carry a knife, that know something about them can probably open it and use it as fast as they could if that same knife was an Automatic. As an LEO I have never seen anyone who tried to use their manual opening knife against someone, and not been able to do so, where they could have if it had been an automatic.

Speed into action was my intent on the original post of mine, sorry about the confusion.

 

[Thomas W]

Easy now people, I don't want this thread to get out of hand.