Hatred of AO knives

[Dekz]

Ever wear heavy work gloves?

Skiing/snowboarding. Winter gloves.

I'm not sure that you guys know what "ill advised" means.

Yeah, does sound pretty unlikely, but it generally involved balancing on top of a ten foot ladder trying to hold something perfectly still, while having to cut something else. Being able to open the knife with a minimum of manipulation was a big plus. My arm moved considerably less when using my thumb to nudge the AO open than when my thumb swung in the arc necessary to open my Spyderco Cricket.

Try comparing the number of muscles that end up moving when opening a blade with a Spyderhole (not bashing Spyderco, I love my Crickets) to the muscles that move when you use you use your index finger on an AO flipper or nudging the thumbstud withyour thumb.

I think even you have to admit that this scenario is ridiculously specific, but you did come up with one and that's better than I thought you would do

However I would argue that when handling something delicate, I would rather gently open a manual knife than have an AO spring out. Some of them have quite a kick.

 

[enderwiggin]

Sorry 3G, I see opinions!

Telling someone to shut up because you don't like what they're saying is not an opinion.

It is, however, seen far too often on here.


The A/O feature, to me--in my opinion --is a good way of making small knives that would generally be harder to open without it easier to open.

It's not a necessary feature, but it is pretty neat, even if it tends to make people nervous.

It doesn't interest me as much as the hole opener, which I like better and compared to an A/O with a saftey, can get open quicker.

 

[kneedeep]

I think even you have to admit that this scenario is ridiculously specific, but you did come up with one and that's better than I thought you would do

LOL, Sorry, when I made the original comment, I was being specific to myself, and not generalizing.

I personally find AO quite useful, and have found myself in many situations where a one handed manual opening has been impractical, difficult, or ill advised.

Although I meant that I found myself in that same or similar situation many times.

 

[SOLEIL]

3G,

If I would ever attempt to shut down a thread I would do much more than just utter my opinions.
Know me, you do not.

 

[3Guardsmen]

3G,

If I would ever attempt to shut down a thread I would do much more than just utter my opinions.
Know me, you do not.

True enough, I don't know you. I just found your unwillingness to describe the actual merits of A.O. knives, instead choosing to dismiss the thread as "an exercise in futility" and criticizing those who personally felt A.O. was "unnecessary" (saying something is unnecessary, BTW, does not in any way mean it should not be available for those who enjoy it) as an attempt to limit the discussion, rather than participate in and expand it.

back at ya.

Regards,
3G

 

[3Guardsmen]

The A/O feature, to me--in my opinion --is a good way of making small knives that would generally be harder to open without it easier to open.

It's not a necessary feature, but it is pretty neat, even if it tends to make people nervous.

It doesn't interest me as much as the hole opener, which I like better and compared to an A/O with a saftey, can get open quicker.

My sentiments exactly, Enderwiggin, and now that you mention it, I never really minded the A.O. on my Mini-Mojo and Chive too badly, especially since the handles were so dang short.

Regards,
3G

 

[Artfully Martial]

I'm not sure why it needs rephrasing, but various members have once again returned to the idea that AO knives will not retain the blade if the torsion bar breaks. This is demonstrably false. Not only with knives with ball detents, and not only with cross-lock based designs. The mode of failure for a well designed AO knife, which as far as I can tell, includes the entire Kershaw line, is totally benign. This is empirically shown.

One argument given many times, so far, in justification of AO's presence, is that AO is very beneficial to so-called knife n00bz. I can see the logic of this claim.

But I find it odd that AO would be so omni-present on the very highest end of Kershaw knives. Now, I don't know this for certain, but in my experience, knife n00bz are less than willing to spend the big bucks on a top-o-the-line Kershaw like an Offset, Tyrade, Ti Bump or Whisper. It is my current belief that these knives are bought mainly by knife fans and collectors. Yet, all of them feature AO. This seems counterintuitive, if we suppose that one of the primary reasons to use AO is for people who are unfamiliar with opening a knife.

But let me depart from the debate thus far, and make a humble suggestion/request to Kershaw. Why should closing the blade load the torsion bar? It makes it quite difficult to close the knife, relative to say an axis lock or hawk lock (or AO-less studlock) where you can flick the knife closed (something I find quite convenient). Furthermore, it basically limits the knife to just the mode of AO, instead of having the manual option. It's been so long since I played with a Cyclone that I can't recall if switching off AO removed the requirement to load the torsion bar when you closed it. But in lieu of such a switch, some sort of other lever could be used to load the spring. However, ideally, a switch that allowed you to choose between manual and AO, without loading the torsion bar (when in manual mode) would be great.

 

[knivesandguns]

Good point, but I'd contend that a knife with an enlarged opening hole, a wave-opener, or even a non-assisted flipper knife could be opened just as easily under those circumstances.

Regards,
3G

I have tried all of the above, so far, the ZT 0300, ZT0610ST (that's an auto), and ZT 0500 MUDD work the best. It is quite difficult to get a good thumb hold on a hole, wave opener / flipper would work, until you try to close it with the gloves.

 

[JTR357]

My favorite AO knife of all time is the Kershaw Leek.I could live without AO on all the others.The Leek was the first decent knife I ever owned.So in a nutshell "I like AO on smaller knives vs larger ones"...mostly for reasons of my location.NJ for Cr!st sake!

 

[2brothers]

When I use a knife, I pay attention to what I'm doing I guess.

mike

That's actually kind of funny, "I guess", because Thomas is pretty much saying that A.O. was created for people who don't really know what their doing when they open a knife. In my opinion, an A.O. knife, after an auto or wave-opening knife, is the last type of knife I'd feel safe having a "newb" try to open.
Regards,
3G

Don't take partial quotes out of context to make your comparisons.



Here is the entire quote.

I don't understand the comment about your fingers getting in the way though.
I don't know of any knife where I place my fingers on the spine of the blade to open it.
I have almost every model from Kershaw, many models of Spyderco, BM, Buck, Case etc...and my fingers are never "in the way".
When I use a knife, I pay attention to what I'm doing I guess.

mike

And this is what I was referring to, just so we're clear.

I have a Kershaw Shallot and I don't like the AO one bit.
It makes opening the knife much slower because I have to check and make sure my fingers aren't in the way.

mike

 

[crom]

I've had it since 2001 and it has never failed after all this time. I carried it almost exclusively for 4 years and used it hard. I like the AO cause it can be opened with any finger whether the knife is upside down or in normal position. Forgive me if i don't get it but, what use does the wave feature have if the knife is not in a pants pocket when you need to open it quickly? I think the best compromise is a well designed flipper. I can open my Lahar many ways and i'm not limited by having to snag it on something to get it to deploy quickly, it's got a stud as well that I can use to propel just as fast as the flipper. And no, it needs no wrist action, it's fast as any AO knife.

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

Cute. And, of course, when I'm in the field and my knife breaks, the manufacturer will immediately come to my location with a replacement, right, cause that's when I'll need it?

If your torsion bar breaks, use two hands, or just some wrist action to open it. Assuming you don't live in BFE you would be able to get it shipped out and fixed within a week. So is it really that big of a deal? All knives can fail, I would go out on a limb and say that an axis lock could fail first because it has a lot more parts than a torsion bar. Judging by your ignorance you need a fixed blade because they can't break under normal use. Is your name Bear Grylls? You carry the same attitude and self fulfilling qualities he does in his shows.

 

[Vivi]

Ever wear heavy work gloves?

I have, and I find my Spyderco Military works well under these circumstances.

 

[Dekz]

Regarding wearing heavy gloves, etc.

I own one AO knife, a Kershaw Cyclone, and I admit that this is the knife I carry when I'm going to go out in the snow and I know I will be wearing big gloves.

Because it is a bit easier to open with big gloves on, but also because it's the only one of my knives that I wouldn't bother replacing if it got lost in a snowbank.

However, I find the entire argument for AO knives for people that wear big heavy gloves, or have arthritis to be pretty ridiculous. Because none of these knives have any features that make them easier to close. IMO using a liner/frame lock is pretty tricky with big gloves on, and I imagine the case would be the same with arthritis. Plus once you get the knife unlocked, it takes a lot more force to close the blade than a manual knife does.

 

[svrider3]

Buy what you like and leave what you don't like on the shelf.
No one is forcing anyone to buy any of the above mentioned over the other.
Why make such a big deal over it?

Why do you consider people's opinions to be a "such a big deal"? What harm are they causing you?

Regards,
3G

I asked a question. Was that "such a big deal"?
What harm did it cause you? It doesn't harm me in the least that we(knife knuts) have
such a large variety to choose from. :thumbup:

From someone that keeps jumping from one persons opinion to the next,
you yourself seem to be making "such a big deal" out of all of this.

You have yourself a wonderful day.

SV

 

[Gtscotty]

Echoing the "It makes more sense on small knives" sentiment. I think that love for AO knives is largely due to the cool or interesting factor of the mechanism, as opposed to some superior usability inherent to the system. Nothing wrong with AO systems, I just don't feel that they add anything that I want to most knives.

$.02

 

[3Guardsmen]

If your torsion bar breaks, use two hands, or just some wrist action to open it. Assuming you don't live in BFE you would be able to get it shipped out and fixed within a week. So is it really that big of a deal? All knives can fail, I would go out on a limb and say that an axis lock could fail first because it has a lot more parts than a torsion bar. Judging by your ignorance you need a fixed blade because they can't break under normal use. Is your name Bear Grylls? You carry the same attitude and self fulfilling qualities he does in his shows.

First of all, you started this thread, asking people why they disliked A.O. knives. People answered your question, gave you specifics, and now you make personal attacks? Your post has been reported.

3G

 

[440hard]

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

First of all, you started this thread, asking people why they disliked A.O. knives. People answered your question, gave you specifics, and now you make personal attacks? Your post has been reported.

3G

You smartmouthed Thomas and other people so if you're willing to report me I think that you should grow up. You need to realize that you come to this thread and act the way you did then people are going to have remarks. I said you are self fulfilling. I never attacked you. I didn't make any threats or attacks on you. You do possess arrogance, everybody can tell. Stop getting offended by smart remarks, you have made them to Thomas and me. Rethink your actions.

 

[3Guardsmen]

You smartmouthed Thomas and other people so if you're willing to report me I think that you should grow up. You need to realize that you come to this thread and act the way you did then people are going to have remarks. I said you are self fulfilling. I never attacked you. I didn't make any threats or attacks on you. You do possess arrogance, everybody can tell. Stop getting offended by smart remarks, you have made them to Thomas and me. Rethink your actions.

When one has to resort to personal attacks (you called me "ignorant"), one has lost the argument. I challenge you to find one personal attack I made, and by all means, please quote it.

Regards,
3G