Heat Treatment - Crystal Weaving Foundation

[Revolverrodger]

Last night, I thinned out the original Enlan and did head-to-head tests video. Shot a long video but only first 3-4 minutes were clear, rest is fog/fuzz-in :grumpy:. Time to get rid of this new camera.

Original 0.014"BET/15dps, CWF HT 0.011"BET/15dps.

15 minutes cutting costco food grade cardboard boxes - both still smoothly slice phonebook paper. Orig is noisy after 5 minutes and stay that way.

Quick resharpened & ~100 whittle cuts black bamboo (bamboo is much more consistent than cardboard, guessing - this bamboo skin has about 3% of silica).

Orig: reflect light. Under 22x - apex width about 3x wider than cwf ht
cwf ht: Under 22x - apex is barely visible.

Chop into buloke wood: orig has visible smushed-in (folded over roll).
Whittle aluminum rod: orig has visible roll. cwf ht has loupe roll (not visible w/o magnification).
Whittle 16d nail: orig has large roll. cwf ht has visible small ripples.

edit (how could I forgot): Press cut paper clip (hardened steel - I think) on wood backing
orig: edge smushed down with shape of the paper clip radius
cwf ht: edge rippled - half as deep as orig. Can't push any harder than leaned my weigh on palm on blade spine.
* neither cut through the clip. cwf ht made deeper cut.

Love this type of testing...
Can you re-heat treat some of my knives?
I would love to do some comparison videos as well

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

What type of steels and target tasks & hardness are you looking for? (if folders, I only want naked blades - don't want disassembly & loose small parts)

btw - will use pm when communication goes beyond exploratory.

Love this type of testing...
Can you re-heat treat some of my knives?
I would love to do some comparison videos as well

 

[Revolverrodger]

PM sent !

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

I am still in catching up mode but got some knife related stuff done. Defibring this thread...

3V
https://youtu.be/pfhTHv0LAcA

CTS-XHP
https://youtu.be/lhMf4G7KJAA

CPM-M4
https://youtu.be/1lqntaBCWEE

CWF HT is busy digging

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

My freehand sharpening became more lopsided, e.g. 17/13, 18/12 dps bevel. Today, I dug out my EdgePro Apex to assist with apex symmetry.

Sharpen freehand is 3x faster for me. Well, now I need to make sure freehand asymmetry lean other way instead (favor toward chisel bevel).

Let whittle pork rib bone with this cwf ht 64rc aebl kitchen util knife

Thanks for watching & comments.
[video=youtube_share;vxR3LgmH2X0]http://youtu.be/vxR3LgmH2X0[/video]

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Luong,

I think it's better to retrain to be symmetrical.

Edit to add:
Watched the video, the AEBL is AWESOME as expected from you :thumbup:
Add 2:
The hunter design is nice, but the nail whittling made me cringe.

 

[pubert]

I don't have a frame of reference for AEBL, so can't really judge this type of testing. Does anyone know of any other comparisons which show a thin AEBL blade cutting into bone? Maybe it is just a component of the steel to handle the task well?

Just curious as a noob...

 

[Cobalt]

I don't have a frame of reference for AEBL, so can't really judge this type of testing. Does anyone know of any other comparisons which show a thin AEBL blade cutting into bone? Maybe it is just a component of the steel to handle the task well?

Just curious as a noob...

Very good point. How would another custom HT'd piece of AEB-L do with the same hardness or close on the same bone?

 

[chiral.grolim]

Very good point. How would another custom HT'd piece of AEB-L do with the same hardness or close on the same bone?

If bluntcut is interested (has the time/inclination), I'd be willing to send an AEB-L blade with similar edge-geometry from another maker to compare, HT'd by Peter's to 60 Rc. However, general experience is that whittling bone demands a thicker edge than 15-20 dps to avoid damage. A thin apex-angle can result in a bite that binds and then is steered aside by the strong(hard) structure as the user tries to continue the cut = edge roll/chip. Thickening the apex-angle strengthens the edge against such steering, but it can also reduce cutting efficiency in softer materials.

 

[Cobalt]

He would have to grind the same edge on it to be comparable. Interesting to see what a 4 pt difference in Rc makes.

 

[chiral.grolim]

He would have to grind the same edge on it to be comparable. Interesting to see what a 4 pt difference in Rc makes.

Last time i checked it, mine was ~0.011 behind-the-edge just like his, so all it needs is to have the angle matched :thumbup: All damage is being confined to the edge bevel, so differences beyond that are immaterial. But yeah, makes more sense to have him match and test them than for me to perform a similar test here without both knives in hand and angle-matched.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

A good question :thumbup:

I have a reference/baseline 6.5" petty knife but lamo-me lost log to be sure whether it's aebl or 14C28N at 62rc. This knife was heat treated using mfg/std ht procedure (aust, quench, cryo, temper). It resides in my kitchen knife block rarely use because it's too easy to ripple & chip. How did its edge after similar bone test (made ~20 cuts).

Per Chiral's post about dps

I don't have a frame of reference for AEBL, so can't really judge this type of testing. Does anyone know of any other comparisons which show a thin AEBL blade cutting into bone? Maybe it is just a component of the steel to handle the task well?

Just curious as a noob...

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Thanks Chiral but edge at lower hardness will ripple & roll. Here is Mora (Carbon) 58-59rc 15/17dps edge after whittle pork rib bone. As you can see, even at 17dps micro (ok, it looks like a macro 17dps -- heheh, this blade is quite convex, so my 15dps sharpening actually didn't apexed)

If bluntcut is interested (has the time/inclination), I'd be willing to send an AEB-L blade with similar edge-geometry from another maker to compare, HT'd by Peter's to 60 Rc. However, general experience is that whittling bone demands a thicker edge than 15-20 dps to avoid damage. A thin apex-angle can result in a bite that binds and then is steered aside by the strong(hard) structure as the user tries to continue the cut = edge roll/chip. Thickening the apex-angle strengthens the edge against such steering, but it can also reduce cutting efficiency in softer materials.
...

 

[chiral.grolim]

I have a reference/baseline 6.5" petty knife but lamo-me lost log to be sure whether it's aebl or 14C28N at 62rc. This knife was heat treated using mfg/std ht procedure (aust, quench, cryo, temper). It resides in my kitchen knife block rarely use because it's too easy to ripple & chip. How did its edge after similar bone test (made ~20 cuts).

Yowza! Now I'm really hesitant to try it myself...

 

[Revolverrodger]

Very interesting video

 

[pubert]

That comparison is impressive, and the type of testing I was curious about.

Have you come across any detrimental effects of this HT? I imagine the steel is more difficult to hone since it is harder, but anything else? With the AEBL, does it have less corrosion resistance?

I also imagine this would baton really well.

 

[Revolverrodger]

Bluntcut, I would love to see real world testing of your knife for survival use (chopping, battoning, feather sticks, prying the tip etc...)

I would also like to see how they perform in harsh sub zero conditions (chopping frizen wood, chopping frozen bone)

I have done all these tasks with Busse knives (INFI) and it passed with flying colors

If you are interested I could test one for you in the harsh Canadian winter !

 

[bodog]

Bluntcut, I would love to see real world testing of your knife for survival use (chopping, battoning, feather sticks, prying the tip etc...)

I would also like to see how they perform in harsh sub zero conditions (chopping frizen wood, chopping frozen bone)

I have done all these tasks with Busse knives (INFI) and it passed with flying colors

If you are interested I could test one for you in the harsh Canadian winter !

From what I understand this is a little bit of a different heat treatment but here's a knife from Luong:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...alworks)-52100-Hard-Use?highlight=bodog+luong

 

[Revolverrodger]

Thanks bodig fir the excellent link
The reason I ask is that I have had knives perform well at room temperature but fail catastrophically in sub zero temperatures
This is especially true when the knives are brought from a warm place (inside hot tent) to outside (-20to-39oC)
I have even seen a wetterling axe shatter !

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

That comparison is impressive, and the type of testing I was curious about.

Have you come across any detrimental effects of this HT?

There is inconsistent (not consider detrimental) hardness for thick blades (large thermal mass, e.g. 3/16+") - thinner edge harden accordingly but mid_blade & spine are at higher hrc than target.

I imagine the steel is more difficult to hone since it is harder, but anything else?

Yes, higher strength prevent abrasive from digging deeper so shaping (grind metal away) would be slower. Edge forming/sharpening actually easier because less burr/wire.

With the AEBL, does it have less corrosion resistance?

No

I also imagine this would baton really well.

Ht improvement is linear while baton demands large volume strength, so thicker edge & blade geometry can satisfy this requirement at cubic/square (edge/blade) rate.