Help me spend $1250

B

Brian.Evans

Registered Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
3,267
I sold my bike today, and my wife has said ok on me using that money on my shop.

Stuff I have:

1. Craftsman 2x42 with all the appropriate mods. (ceramic platen, manual tracking)
2. Craftsman 9" benchtop bandsaw for wood
3. HF bandsaw for metal.
4. Assorted files and handheld grinders, sandpaper, etc.
5. 4 speed HF benchtop drill press.


I have fallen head over heels for metal work. That being said, I want to do more than make knives. My interests run to pocket knives, steam engines, integral fixed blades, general metal working, hit and miss engines. That being said..........

My wish list:
1. Upgraded grinder, prob a GIB from Polar Bear Forge
2. Mill
3. Lathe
4. Better drill press
5. Lights for the shop
6. Wood for more and better benches.
7. Welder
8. Parts to complete my freon tank forge.

The first two are the big ones. I just don't know if I'd use the mill for much more than pocket knives. Mills are expensive to not use them a lot. If I want to do engines, I have to have a lathe and a mill.

Also something I'm spinning around in my head, is how much better are my knives going to look on an expensive grinder than a cheap grinder? Should I buy a mill, make some knives, then spend whatever I have left later plus some savings for a better grinder? Or should I not worry about a mill and making integrals, shadow patterns and other assorted fun metal working projects and just upgrade my grinder?

I know you guys like giving your opinions, and I need help from more experienced makers.

Thanks in advance guys.

If anyone wants to email instead of posting publicly, my email is medicevans at gmail dot com.
 
danknugs said:
What shop is complete without...

http://www.amazon.com/Northern-Black-Kegerator-Dispenser-Refrigerator/dp/B004WP3ZPG

Believe me, every real man needs one. You will wonder how you ever got along without it
Click to expand...

Nice. I don't drink, and have enough trouble grinding without being intoxicated. However, I guess if you drink enough, you wouldn't care how you grind, lol.

O'neil, that's not at all the order I figured people would go. Want to elaborate? I would like to know why you picked what you picked.
 
ONeill said:
#'s 4,1,5,7.2
Click to expand...

I actually kind of mirror his thoughts, but can elaborate at least on my perspective:

#4--I've stopped buying much else besides cartridges for my respirator and my nitrile gloves from Harbor Fright--yeah, you can get the HF press for 65-69 bucks, but after the poor castings, shoddy machining, and laughable factory assembly on previous purchases, forgetaboutit. 30 bucks will put you in line for a Delta or similar--forget Skil, my kids got me one three years ago and its failed to perform (undersized spindle for the load, wonky caste base, and the table refuses to stay level). CL is your best bet, I see full sized 12 or ore inch floor models sell for about 150 often.

#1--go with a GIB or a no-weld. I dropped the dime on the GIB after a couple months of using my own clone of the NWG--without a welder or experience to use one, I found that my tube steel assembly was nothing but a huge resonator and the vibration drove me nuts. Jamie's package, for the price, will definitely get you rolling--a motor from SurplusSupply, wheels from SunDevil or Contact Rubber, and the small wheel attachment kit from USAknifemaker to start--you can use 1.5" square tube like me as square stock is ridiculously over priced here. Later you can always move on to a bigger motor with VFD.

#5--First thing I would do is upgrade lighting. Over the course of the past year, lighting is one of those hindsight factors which has constantly bugged me. At this point I've 3 clamp lamps which are constantly being moved around to various stations because the two 4-bulb fluorescents I added originally just don't hack it for knife making--subdued is good when you're working at 10X for filing the hammer quarter cock bevel on a 1911, but terrible for catching scratch patterns.

#7--Whether tack welding a stack together or wanting to, say, build a grinder, I really need a welder. In this regard I might consider going with the el cheapo (scary) HF 90amp AT LEAST until I could afford a Lincoln. Welding is one of those skills I have yet had a chance to learn and find new ways constantly why I NEED to.

#8--A mill for the time being will help a lot more towards your work with knives and anything else you might want to pick up. Sureline and Taig both have affordable (500 range) benchtop mills, but would not recommend a combo mill/lathe--as friends in gun and paintball have found, they just don't have the torque capable for heavier tasks, like boring internal threads (an issue if you want to get into small engines). However, the bottom line is that, for your current endeavors as a knifemaker and would be machinist, a mill will pay for itself relatively quickly and enable you to shop around for a lathe.

Further notes:
On the HF saw, some people don't have a problem with them, but I for one do not like the legs on the HF bandsaws and would suggest you mount it on something more sturdy or reinforce the legs.

On Lathes, unlike Anvils, modern pieces, even imports like Jet, Grizzly, and so on, are decent machines, but, like anvils, the oldies are particularly desirable if they're a variety that have a consistent stream of replacement parts. Models like the Bridgeport Heavy 10 are great home-machinist lathes--rock solid, reliable, and can be easily retrofitted with modern contrivances, such as link belts to replace a leather flat belt. Geared models, like the Rivet 608, are workhorses, use common gears (so the spindle, wheel, and tooth ratio sizes are interchangeable with modern castings), and can define the word precision (if they've been well maintained). Several of our large machine shops have million dollar CNC cabinets the size of small semis--all the tooling is made on WWII era lathes.

Try to look up Russ Kepler--the man is a wizard with miniature and scale engine builds and refurbishes. This past Christmas he just built 1/10 scale train for their local Christmas fair to pull kids around. However, he is also one of the most gentlemanly sorts you could ever meet and would probably point you to info to get you well underway started on model engines. (BTW, The Little Machine Shop has got some great miniature steam and hit/miss engines kits).
 
medicevans said:
My wish list:
1. Upgraded grinder, prob a GIB from Polar Bear Forge
2. Mill
3. Lathe
4. Better drill press
5. Lights for the shop
6. Wood for more and better benches.
7. Welder
8. Parts to complete my freon tank forge.
Click to expand...

1. A good grinder is paramount, whether making knives or doing general metal work.

5. Good lighting can only make things (as in seeing your mistakes) better.

8. A good forge will allow you to manipulate metal, even if it is not knife related.

A Mill is one of those "Nice-to-Have" items, however, you can probably get by for a while without one. I have a Sherline Mini and use it only for slotting guards.

Again, a lathe would be nice, but not a "must-have" item for us old blade-makers.

A good drill press is always nice to have, but unless you are willing to spend mega-bucks, you can probably get by on what you have.

Welder..... I have a Lincoln SP-170T Wire Welder and rarely use it for knifemaking purposes.

Spend that money wisely. I have many trees around my place, but none of them seem to produce money.

Robert
 
With the money you have looks like you could do 1 or 2 or 3. Or you could do 4-7. I would put 5 on the top of the list. I can light up my workshop like an operating room. I also have magnetic and clamp on lamps for all my big tools. Lighting has been one of the best shop improvements I have made. I have 8 t-8 two tube fixtures on the ceiling of my 1-1/2 car garage plus one over each of two workbenches. I have lamps with fluorescent bulbs for my drill press, band saw and belt sander. I have one of those magnifing lenses with the round fluorescent tubes around it on an articulating arm on one of my benches that sees a lot of use. I call it my "old man eyes" lamp.

I use my workshop for knifemaking, woodworking, furniture repair, auto repair, boat repair, upholstery work and a bicycle shop among other things. All my major tools are on mobile bases and I can actuall park a car in, it but rarely do.

Greg
 
I'd second(fourth??) the suggestions already given, except that I am in love with my 220v MIG welder from HF. The band saw definitely is great, with crappy legs that should be replaced. A good drill press is so very useful, don't forget good clamps and vises for the press.
 
Robert and Ed, thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. I am really at a crossroads with my thoughts. I guess I need to decide if I want to make knives or engines. A mill would be nice, but not really necessary for knives. Engines, who knows, maybe a lathe.

I found a 1920s mill that had been completely refurbed in 1986 for $650, but that would leave me high and dry for a grinder, however leaving me enough money for lights, belts and some tooling.

Buying a grinder will mean a grinder and belts, and maybe a few lights.

The combos are driving me crazy. I have five kids, this chance to use the money is all I have. I need to use it where it will help me make more money.
 
Greg and Zaph, thank you as well.

That is what I had kind of figured; 1, 2, or 3, or 4-7. Which is why I asked everyone here, maybe another way of looking at it will be helpful.
 
If I could be so bold, I'd suggest the grinder and lights--you're already well into making blades and the dynamics of what you're learning now will come into play in model engines. Despite my day job, I was and still technically am a moonlight gunsmith and truth be told, for as little work as I found for custom arms, it was going to take me years to save up enough for a mill...now? Now if I wanted to, socked away most of what I earn making knives, I could probably afford one of those new low-end freestanding Grizzlys with DRO and modern digital by the end of the year--I won't, I've my own shopping list for knife making--such as a electric kiln, a bigger anvil, maybe a smaller portable forge, another grinder, and, oh yeah, MORE lights.
However, in due consideration, about two-thirds of my gunsmithing knowledge and experience have been the biggest aid in learning this trade. What I really think is that bladesmithing might just give you an eye for the work that will give you a certain defined character for your work--such as decorative filework around the mouth of a smoke stack. I hope that makes sense--good luck brother.
 
When I first saw this thread, my thoughts were grinder and mill. But, since you do not have a welder, and for a dedicated metalworker that's like a right arm, I'm gonna say get a GIB, find a good old 225 ampish stick welder in your local CL for around $100, and spend any you have left on lighting. Welding opens up huge areas of opportunity, like building many of your subsequent tools, such as a forge, other grinders, repairing many things, and the sheer fun of learning to weld as well.

You will be surprised at how much of a difference having a nice versatile grinder will make in your knives- contact wheels really change the game in shaping handles for instance, your work will look better quickly too. I say this without knowing hat your work looks like, as I feel it's pretty universally true.
 
Ed, thanks for being so bold. :)
Everything I've read, people always say a nice grinder is soooo much easier to work on and so much easier to make nice knives with.

I definitely need more lighting over my grinding station and just more lighting in general. My dad has looked at my shed and said it wouldn't be too hard to extend the lighting that is already there.

Salem, my grinding is better than it was, but still not close to selling anything yet. Maybe in a few knives I'll feel comfortable putting my name on something. My dad has a degree in welding, so he is a good person to ask about used welders. :)



It is beginning to look like a GIB, lights, see if I can buy a cheap welder and maybe an old floor drill press. If I can locally source the steel and waterjetting for the GIB parts and get a decently priced motor, I can probably do all four things. I'd really like to build a forge too, but that may have to wait until I sell a stock removal knife.
 
I think everyone has some great ideas.

I vote for a grinder and lighting upgrade plus at least $200 on belts to start. Good luck! :D
 
Here's what I'm going to do. Unless anyone has a better idea than a GIB, I'm going to sit down and put pen to paper and figure out an exact cost on the GIB with a motor and wheels, etc.

Then, I will figure out a good starting setup on belts for said grinder. I'd take suggestions on that too.

Then we will see where I'm at.
 
I'll save you the trouble:
Surplus Center (www.surpluscenter.com) 115V 1hp 3400 RPM single phase: 79 (101 with shipping)
From Usanifemaker: Knifedogs 8" contact wheel, 6" drive wheel, Tracking Idler wheel, and small wheel fork (with 3 wheels) kit: 548
Gib kit: 260
Beumont platen plate and wheels: 90 bucks
Bolts: 26
1.5" square tube: 9 bucks

In due retrospect, I'd have rather ordered a different motor, something enclosed as I can overheat this smaller one without a VFD.
 
Ed, I need to get you something nice for your birthday or something. Thank you!

Edit to add:
Can you explain your issue with overheating the motor? Is it just heavy use, or a crappy motor?
 
It tends to over work when doing some extreme hogging for stock removal, such as those shuriken I'm working on. I could do four or five before I'd shut her off to let her breathe. It's undersized for the job I'm asking as an open unit, but went with what fit the budget (I wanted to leave enough in the bank to stock up on belts).
And you don't have to get/send me anything, I know how daunting a 2x72 on a budget is as a beginner and just happy to help.
 
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