Help me spend $1250

Brian,

I have a GIB. Instead of trying to address 5 pages of thoughts I'll throw a few things out.

If you buy the GIB,
You can have your Dad weld the upright, AND, With the TIG, most the rest of the grinder too.... talk about solid!

I have USAknifemaker wheels. I pressed out the bearings on my 2" contact wheels and added a spacer between the bearings. The reason I would not buy them again is when you tighten the nuts to hold the wheels in place they sideload the bearings and cause drag. Beaumont's wheels cone with a small spacer inside the wheels that prevents that problem.
Another issue with using this wheels for me.
My 56c motor only has a 5/8"x1-7/8" shaft. I ran my drive wheel out as far as possible and was still on the edge of getting my wheels aligned because I had to use a 1/2" nut on each side of the wheels to lock them in place. If I used Beaumont wheels it would've save me 1/2" of adjustment.

I had my tracking wheel mount slip in the drill press vise when I was drilling. A C Richards milled me a new one and it was all the difference for my tracking. Even drilled straight, I'd consider small spacers to prevent slop. Chuck modified mine when he made it to eliminate the slop. (I'll add pics if you want when I'm on my laptop.)

I bought an 8" and 4" wheel from USAKnifemaker and because of the spacer issue struggled with alignment.

***NOTE •••••Jamie at Polar Bear told me the main reason for recommending solid tool arms was not strength. He said it cuts down vibration and makes the grinder run smoother*** I have 1/4" wall heavy tubing and find my GIB runs super smooth as is though....

I'm running an 1725RPM motor with a KBAC VFD. I run it with a jumper inside the VFD set at 2x speed. Wayne Coe recommend the 1725 motors run that way with the VFD as they are better built motors...

I love my GIB. I would buy it all over again. Get the multi platen with a 3" and a 8"-10" wheel and the small wheel attachement, then sell knives to buy more parts.

You'll need a piece of 2"x3" angle for the flat platen.

If you do run a pillow block pulley set up, do like Tendati and I believe AVigil and get a long shaft and add a 9" disc to the end.

The most important part of a GIB build is drilling and tapping all your holes straight n square.

Feel free to e-mail me or PM if you want I'll give you my number to answer any other questions. Hope this helps.
 
Brian, did you use the large machine washers Tracy sells on each side of the cheaper contact wheels? I wonder if they decrease side load?
 
medicevans said:
Brian, did you use the large machine washers Tracy sells on each side of the cheaper contact wheels? I wonder if they decrease side load?
Click to expand...
I did. I bought 2 packs from the beginning. I eventually bought 2 Redhead 1/2" concrete anchors and used the sleeve as an inside bushing. That reduced the sideload plenty.
The biggest problem is the alignment issues I had when trying to lock the wheels in place with a nut. If you use a pillow block set up you can use a longer shaft and no problem.

I honestly could be over thinking all this as a total noob.

My only Point of reference is my friends Bader wheels. They spin forever with zero slop side to side whereas my wheels spin for 1 second when tightened to eliminate all slop.
Well, the idler tracking wheel from USAKnifemaker has an inside sleeve, and spins forever too.

The alignment problem with the 8" is easily solved by putting it on the tool arm without the platen. But, it doesn't allow you to adjust the wheels height with the platen to your particular desire for hollow grinding.

It's in large part a time vs money thing. I spent 3-4 hours or more looking for bushings. Sleeves. Washers.
I'd have spent a few extra bucks to save me some of the time.
 
Thanks Brian. Lots to take in for sure. How much real difference does the load on the bearings make? Meaning, does it matter that they dint spin as long under no load?


Has anyone used a 2" and a 3" wheel together on a GIB standard platen?
 
Here's a break down of what I'm thinking.
Standard Platen and Separate contact wheel arm
Kit 260
Motor and VFD 500
Drive wheel 56
2 2" contact wheels 90
Idler wheel 62
Incidentals 75
8" contact wheel 105
Total: $1148

-or-

Multiplaten
Kit 260
motor and VFD 500
Drive wheel 56
2" contact wheel 45
Idler wheel 62
8" contact 104
Incidentals 75
Total: $1102

-or-

One of the two options as single speed with a small contact wheel setup. That would save me approximately $100. Going with single speed and the wheel holder and only a single small wheel (3/4"?) would save an additional $50.

If I do VFD, I will have about $200-250 to spend on belts. Single speed, $350-400 on belts and other stuff.


So, opinions?? Another $500 would make a big difference.

And to make my mental game even worse, I came down further than I really wanted to on my bike because I had no offers on it and had a guy there with cash. Now today, I get another person interested. I can't help by wonder if I should have waited and tried for another $200? Lol. See how I am?
 
medicevans said:
Thanks Brian. Lots to take in for sure. How much real difference does the load on the bearings make? Meaning, does it matter that they dint spin as long under no load?


Has anyone used a 2" and a 3" wheel together on a GIB standard platen?
Click to expand...

Real world difference? Not much? I asked on here when I built mine and got no responses from people with budget wheels.

The 3" will work fine. With 2"x3" angle for your platen you have enough adjustment to kick it out to get both ends of the platen the same distance past the wheels. I honestly wish I had done that as I'be been told the 3" wheel is a nice option when shaping handles.

I'd love to hear what others think about the budget wheels? Any opinions from people who have em?
 
I have the budget wheels, and they are holding up fine (then again, I've only had them for a few months). I didn't really see the need to spend that much more on wheels. I've tightened them up snugly enough to still spin freely with very little slop. So far so good. I do have a long drive axle though, so it did help out with the alignment.

Medicevans, I don't think the 8" whee will work on the standard platen. I have it on the multi-platen, with a pyroceram-lined flat platen (2" x 3" angle, likew what you'll be using) attached to the multi-platen. I also bought the flat platen attachment, but with the set-up I have , I really haven't even thought abou tusing it. So option 2 would be my choice for you. Spend the extra $100 on a VFD - it is absolutely worth it, IMHO.
 
Brian Ayres said:
The 3" will work fine. With 2"x3" angle for your platen you have enough adjustment to kick it out to get both ends of the platen the same distance past the wheels. I honestly wish I had done that as I'be been told the 3" wheel is a nice option when shaping handles.
Click to expand...
Will the 2" work with the 8", or just the 3"? I just wonder because you can always sand a large radius with a small wheel, but you can't go the other way.
 
tedinatl said:
I have the budget wheels, and they are holding up fine (then again, I've only had them for a few months). I didn't really see the need to spend that much more on wheels. I've tightened them up snugly enough to still spin freely with very little slop. So far so good. I do have a long drive axle though, so it did help out with the alignment.

Medicevans, I don't think the 8" whee will work on the standard platen. I have it on the multi-platen, with a pyroceram-lined flat platen (2" x 3" angle, likew what you'll be using) attached to the multi-platen. I also bought the flat platen attachment, but with the set-up I have , I really haven't even thought abou tusing it. So option 2 would be my choice for you. Spend the extra $100 on a VFD - it is absolutely worth it, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's what I was looking to get opinions on. I think the VFD is worth it too, but I am afraid I'm just tired of burning off tips of knives on my craftsman.

The standard platen option was for a dual 2" or a 2/3" setup and a separate 8" tooling arm. I'd rather use the multiplaten so I can have a slackbelt, both radius wheels, and flat platen.
 
You won't get much slack belt on the multi platen unless you get it so it can rotate 180 degrees. I can't remember if mine will do that as it's been FOREVER since I ground on a blade....

I have the KBAC VFD and can say I love it! Another benefit to a VFD is that you can buy another 3ph motor, an $80 9" disc and voila!!! A variable speed reversing 9" disc for $250-300!!!!


***please don't take my thoughts opinions about the budget wheels as a negative opinion of USAKnifemaker... I've bought other stuff from Tracy and have been perfectly happy. They are "budget" wheels after all.***

I say in conclusion,

Buy a GIB with the multi platen, with a VFD and 3ph motor. Get a 2HP if possible. I have a 1.5 and can bog it slightly while hogging....
You can run a smaller 1-1.5hp disc motor off the same VFD.
I'm happy with the 1-1/2" heavy wall for tool arms, and work rest. I bought 10' and have plenty to make multiple arms in the future.
You can just use bolts for your tool arm and work rest adjustment knobs, then weld a handle on for cheap.
Welding most of the frame will save cost on bolts, and look awesome.

Btw, the holes on the platen are laser cut to over 1/2" OD. You need to have a nut either side of the platen to lock the wheel shafts in place. If your dad or you welded threaded sleeves(I forget what they are called) it might give you more alignment options. Or, you can drill new holes adjacent to the pre-cut holes and tap for 1/2" threads.

Lot's of fun coming your way!
 
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Medicevans, my multi platen is set up like (I think) you want yours set up - 2" and 10" wheel (I know you said you're thinking of the 8", which will also work) with the flat platen in-between. I can easily rotate it 180 degrees to get slack belt, or I can just remove the flat platen, which is a bit more PITA.

I also did the disc sander on the other end of the dive shaft. Here are a few pics:

photo1.jpg


photo2.jpg


photo3.jpg


photo4.jpg
 
That is exactly what I needed to see! That is sharp!

Are you guys saying weld all the joints on the entire unit?
 
medicevans said:
That is exactly what I needed to see! That is sharp!

Are you guys saying weld all the joints on the entire unit?
Click to expand...

Welding is not needed, except in my opinion, welding the base to the main upright is better than tapping a couple holes into the upright....
That being said, I'd weld the tool arm receiver and work rest receiver with a TIG if I could, but it's not needed by any means....... It'd just look nice. But, you'd still have all the bolt holes to fill.....or leave open.
I think a clean option is grade 8 allenhead bolts to hold the receivers together. Maybe a few tack welds and you can paint it with out bolts in place? I didn't paint mine... Not likely to either....

I like tedinatl's set up, but I would prefer a seperate disc grinder running off a seprate motor on one VFD if possible.
I also like/prefer the GIB's direct drive with a 56c motor. Less parts to wear and adjust.

You can find a new 56c http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...max-56c-footed-230-460v-3ph-2hp-3600rpm-motor
for $148
A Teco TM-50 for $150... http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.196/.f?sc=2&category=32

The Teco VFD's are either loved or hated....It should be mounted in a protective enclosure, or moved to another room with remote wiring. Salem Straub uses one to control 3?-4? grinders.....

I have a KBAC-27D. It's around $400 with shipping.... but, in a NEMA 4 enclosure... dust, waterproof...It's a pretty much universally loved, but expensive.

I have the Elektrimax motor.... It's a budget motor to be sure, but haven't had any issues....Wayne Coe sells them and also hasn't had problems from what he said to me.

This is the VFD I have....
http://www.walkeremd.com/KB-Electronics-KBAC-Adjustable-Frequency-Drive-p/kb-ac.htm
 
Thanks for that Brian. I'm thinking I'm going to go with a TB Woods 3hp NEMA 12 enclosed VFD from dealerselectric. They are $200. Plus $150 for that electrimax motor. If I can get both to my door for under $400, that might be a better option.
 
Brian, thanks again for the motor tip. I can indeed get the motor to my door for $175.45, and the VFD to me for about $225, which is about where I wanted to be! I'm going to buy the motor last, as I'm still working on finding one locally for cheaper, but that VFD is being purchased this week!
 
Evan--I've been staying silent letting the more experienced folks walk you through and getting an education myself on how to improve my GIB, but Brian's posts alone have sent my mind wheeling down completely new venues on how to just improve my GIB. with everything else everyone supplied as far as links, parts, and recommendations...welcome to the GIB Koolaid.

Brian--Brilliant, you summarized all the issues I've had, and been contemplating trying to fix. I agree with everything you said, and you hit every little frustration I had along the way. I really should do the bearing space adjustment and make a new tracking wheel block. It took me *sigh* 3 hours to tap the tracking wheel mounting block--I cut the through hole no problem, but threading the 3/8" proved a most difficult task--I'd swear, even though it's A36, the steel around the edges of the laser cut seemed hardened. Even working with a 10" tap handle, and then resorting to a 2' stilson wrench with a 4' cheater pipe, it just. did. not. want. to. cut.
As to bolts for the wheels...So help me guys, if I can ever get my hands on a real lathe and do it right, I'd make shoulder bolts specifically for contact wheels.
 
Ed Braun said:
Evan--I've been staying silent letting the more experienced folks walk you through and getting an education myself on how to improve my GIB, but Brian's posts alone have sent my mind wheeling down completely new venues on how to just improve my GIB. with everything else everyone supplied as far as links, parts, and recommendations...welcome to the GIB Koolaid.

Brian--Brilliant, you summarized all the issues I've had, and been contemplating trying to fix. I agree with everything you said, and you hit every little frustration I had along the way. I really should do the bearing space adjustment and make a new tracking wheel block. It took me *sigh* 3 hours to tap the tracking wheel mounting block--I cut the through hole no problem, but threading the 3/8" proved a most difficult task--I'd swear, even though it's A36, the steel around the edges of the laser cut seemed hardened. Even working with a 10" tap handle, and then resorting to a 2' stilson wrench with a 4' cheater pipe, it just. did. not. want. to. cut.
As to bolts for the wheels...So help me guys, if I can ever get my hands on a real lathe and do it right, I'd make shoulder bolts specifically for contact wheels.
Click to expand...

PolyWHeel2.jpg

Here is one option I tried. I got some bronze spacers for inside the bearings, but they were too hard to align trying to get the bolt through as I pressed the bearing in first.(doh)...


Here is my tracking part Chuck Richards made for me... It really helped improve the tracking.

I'm contemplating reworking the tracking arm like Ed Caffrey did. He redrills the pivot to the back, then changes the spring to a KMG type spring. He's ground a "few" more blades than I have so it seems like it would work.
I-Phone237.jpg


Yup. That laser cut steel is pretty hard. Maybe we should just make knives from laser cut mild steel? :eek:

I went to the store and bought shouldered 1/2" bolts in many lengths. I was able to get enough lengths that the ones I used had a full shoulder all through the wheels to help limit "wobble" like you get with threaded bolts..

If I ever get a few hours shop time I'll share my horizontal conversion I figured out for my GIB..... :D
 
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