Help me spend $1250

I bought two of the idler wheels from USAknifemaker (one for each of the platens), in addition to the one I bought from another board member (which serves as the main idler wheel). I don't have enough time in service to know how long they will last, but they work for now.

I will say I am glad I bought my contact wheels and the associated spindles (CWS) from Beaumont. Those spindles came with nuts that act as spacers for the wheels when mounted solo on a tooling bar, which I found quite handy. The spindles would not work on tubing, though, so since that's what you're using, don't order them.

- Greg
 
Gotcha.

Surely the cheaper wheels work ok, right?

Edited to add:

I'm going to have to sit down and do a cost/benefit analysis to determine if I want to use cheap wheels and have two platens with different sized wheels, or go with more expensive wheels, run a single platen and pick the two sizes I like the most.
 
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Not trying to rain on your parade or anything but how good are you a fabricating? I mean your budget would get you a basic KMG delivered to your door. If you get the motor used locally you could even get a 10" wheel instead of an 8" and maybe have one of the platen wheels replace by a 2" rubber one, and still have a little money left. If you are good at metal fab and already have tools, or just enjoy the whole thing as much as knifemaking then go for a home build for sure. But if you are like me it could mean a lot of time and aggravation.
Time away from actual knifemaking and aggravation well, with a new baby, you'll get plenty of that. ;)
 
Patrice, I actually have been looking at videos of home builts all morning. I'm siting here thinking, "I could easily build that.". I'd need a welder, but overall, I know I could do it cheaper. However, and this is a big however, how much cheaper? Then figure time (away from knifemaking, away from the family, and troubleshooting), general aggravation, and in the end not knowing if it will even work well, I'm not sure I'd come out ahead.

Something I hadn't thought about before; my drill press will not drill 1/2" steel. No way no how. Just ain't gonna happen.

I was at $1100 shipped for a GIB with a small wheel attachment, platen with 2 & 6" wheels, platen with 3 & & 8" wheels, and single speed 1.5 hp motor. That includes none of Greg's contrarian ( see Greg, I pay attention. ;) ) incidentals like nuts and bolts, handles, taps, tool arms or anything else I might need. It really could end up running +$200 easy. And I still don't have an adequate drill press set up. I would have to fab something to hold the fittings while I drill them. Also, it would be $100+ and more time to fab a pulley setup for three speed motor. That's ~$1400 before a bigger drill press and a press vise. And if incidentals and time to gather them up run higher, it could be as high as ~$1500+ and still only three speed!

WHEW!!

I just got off the phone with Jose (pheer327). Very nice guy. Put up with all of my dumb questions, which says a lot. Lol.

I'm looking at ~$1200 shipped with a 3"x8" flipping wheel platen, 1.5 hp 220V NEMA 12 (dust proof, water resistant) VFD, tool rest, plus about $200 for a small wheel attachment and platen liner from USAknifemaker. And it's ready to plug in and make knives in a few minutes. All the wheels are from USAknifemaker, poly coated. He'll even throw in an extra tool arm already drilled and ready to have a small wheel attachment bolted on. Total ~$1400 shipped to my door ready to rock.

Now, that of course is at the top of my new budget, but is a hell of a lot less frustration and TIME. It almost is the same money too. I wouldn't have a 2", 4", or 6" wheel like on the GIB specs I ran, but do I really need them? A 3/4, 1, 1 1/4, 3, and 8 should do about everything right? Also, if I find myself needing one later, I can order a 2" small wheel attachable wheel from USAknifemaker for $75. Maybe I should ask what a 3x10" flipping platen would run?

Dang this is confusing, but I'm starting to lean to the pheer327 pretty hard, just based on the numbers, time factor, and having that VFD.
 
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Now, that of course is at the top of my new budget, but is a hell of a lot less frustration and time. I wouldn't have a 2", 4", or 6" wheel like on the GIB specs I ran, but do I really need them? A 3/4, 1, 1 1/4, 3, and 8 should do about everything right? Also, if I find myself needing one later, I can order a 2" small wheel attachable wheel from USAknifemaker for $75.
Click to expand...

Those wheel sizes will get you pretty far. And, once you have the grinder you can always add tooling bit by bit. Don't over analyze to the point where you are immobile...

FWIW, that does sound like a great price for a variable 1.5 hp grinder with a lot of options. Variable puts most belt grinders into the stratosphere in pricing.
 
Remember that you don't NEED all those wheels. I have a 3/4 small wheel. 2" and 10", along with a flat platen, and there are very few things that I cannot do. The stuff that I can't do I can probably do with a bit of elbow grease. Also, I made my own small wheel attachment (it was pretty easy) from scrap metal, so it only cost me $55 for the small wheel. As I said, I have a little under $1000 total into my GIB, which includes a 2hp DC motor and a NEMA 4 speed control. And I also had to buy a bunch of taps and other tools. As far as drill presses go - I have a $75 HF special, and it did fine with the steel - I just had to go slowly, and use some tapping fluid to keep things relatively cool.

But then an additional $200 gets you most of what I have, but you don't have to build it. BTW, it only took about 6 ~ 8 hours for me to build my GIB. The part that took the longest was aligning everything so that I could also run a disc on the other side of the drive shaft.

Remember to keep some cash aside for belts as well.
 
I'm also going to try to price out a budget KMG like Patrice said earlier and see where that gets me.

The motor an VFD from Jose were $350, but I don't know if he'd go that price just buying the motor.

If he would, I think that would put a KMG very close to his price, with a considerably higher resale price if I ever wanted to sell it.
 
Well, if you're not rushed, wait a bit and I'll add one more to the sample size and give as complete a report as I can. If anyone has specific questions just let me know and I'll try to answer them once it arrives and I've got a little time on it. He's got about a five week wait time so you'd be looking at the end of April or beginning of May to get yours if you wait till mine gets reviewed. I plan to take all the questions and concerns folks mentioned in the threads about these and try to address them as well as I can. I won't have all the tooling options folks might want to check out, but things like the tension arm length/position, tracking, power, weight/stability... That I can photograph, demonstrate and test. I'll have a friend get some digital video for the stuff that works best in motion. So, think up what you want me to show and message me a list.
Don't forget a glass platen from USAKnifemaker, cheap but still needs to be included in the budget. I still need to order mine, just waiting till I am ordering some other stuff.
You're basically where I was about a month ago. Cash in hand, looking at all the options and trying to factor in the time and headaches. Unfortunately, I can't tell you how my decision worked out yet.
 
Well Remy, let me ask you, why didn't you chose a base KMG? What turned you on about the Pheer?

Edited to add: KMG is too expensive, even going cheap. I still like the Pheer. Ted's comment about a 3/4, 2, & 10 being enough has me thinking. How did you make the small wheel attachment anyway?
 
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Final price. As you found, trying to get a KMG on the bench RUNNING costs a fair bit more than the Pheer. Honestly, I have nothing against the KMG, I am just not convinced it's worth that much more money, at least for me. If someone offered me either machine, with equivalent setups, for the price of the Pheer, I'd most likely go with the KMG. Short of finding a used one in good shape, that's not happening. If money wasn't a real concern, I'd probably have gone with the KMG just for potential resale value and larger market share. I know that if I post with a "my kmg is doing xyz, what should I do?" there will be twenty guys offering advice based on their almost identical grinders. With the Pheer, at least so far, I'm not sure we've seen two machines particularly close in terms of configuration. I have faith that over time the situation will change for the Pheer machine, but it's not there yet.

Basically, my budget for the grinder was $950 MAX. I had about $1100 to spend on the project and needed to at least get some starter belts and the glass platen. I'm building an enclosure for my VFD, but I don't include that in the budget since I'll probably use materials already on hand. I'm doing an under bench setup for that so it's a bit of an odd config. There is NO WAY I'd have gotten a KMG running within that budget unless I found one used and the seller was incredibly generous. I also had to go light on the motor, with a meager 1hp. I know it's small, but it's still going to be a big boost over my current machine and I have plans for the smaller motor if I feel like it's not enough and upgrade, so no waste there if it's not sufficient for me. I am not a real hard pressure grinder so we'll just have to see what happens.

ETA - Best way I can show it:
My final cost for the Pheer, shipped, $845
Costs related to a KMG with a similar setup
$750 (base price)
$896 (Their smallest VFD motor package, hell, even at 300, assuming I buy one from pheer we're already well over my final price)
$115 (base plate so it all mounts properly and lines up, remember, I don't want to be making my own parts here, I want it to go together properly and work, not require me to build it myself)
$75-100 (various pulleys, belt, bracket...)
----Final price, without shipping - $1240 if I use the lowest numbers. $1860 if I just go with everything from Beaumont. I'm assuming there's no markup if I want a rubber 2" contact wheel on my KMG platen instead of the metal wheel, the prices seemed like it might actually be cheaper but I expect they'd just swap it out and leave the price as is to compensate for the work, fair enough.
 
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Med, or is it Evans? How serious is knifemaking for you? I mean is this something you MIGHT will like or is there a good chance that it will be a lifelong thing? Asking cause if it's a long term thing like for many of us already infected by the disease well let me tell you that eventually, even the 500$ that you may be saving now will look like chump change. I can't talk about other grinders and the KMG MIGHT be overbuilt but personally I'll take a little overbuilt (ok a lot if I can ;)) anytime over "enough to do the job". Again not putting others down, just love my KMG and 110% satisfied. You'll be happy you started with a solid base in the future.
Anyway, I'll stop rambling, I wish you good luck which ever way you go.
 
Patrice, knife and razor making is going to be my only hobby for as far out as I can see. I love creating, but can't draw, so I use metal and wood and horn.

As far as the extra $500 goes, you're right, I probably should go with the KMG. I know it's an awesome machine, but I just don't have the extra $500 and it would take me YEARS to save enough away from the family to get it. Years I could be perfecting my grinding on another 2x72 machine.

If I can get the GIB down to decent levels including tooling to build it, I may go with it. It seems built sturdier.

A 1.5 hp motor and VFD from Pheer will be $400 shipped. I need to price out the GIB with the one multi platen, 2x10" wheels, Pheer motor and VFD, and one or two small wheels.
 
Just curious, how is the GiB setup sturdier? They look fairly similar in that regard to me, assuming you properly secure the grinder to the bench of course.
 
Sorry, I did not know enough about your financial situation. It was presumptuous for me to assume that money for hobbies is easily available to everybody. It is not of course and I apologize.
 
Ahhh, ok, I see what you mean. But looking at weakest links, it seems like it's mounting hardware for wheels, the arms... The frame is certainly a beast though. :)
 
Patrice, no harm done and certainly no offense taken. I'll tell you what I tell everyone; if I were single, we'd not be having this conversation. I'd have already bought and had put together a GIB with a 3 hp VFD and have three knives made already. Lol. Again, no offense taken. I chose to have five kids, and I wouldn't change it for the world.

Remy, I'm with Greg on this one. 1/2" steel plate seems much much sturdier than 1/8" wall 1 1/4" square tube. The only big concern I have is how the tension arm connects. Seems week to have a bolt through two pieces of tubing like I understand it to be.



On another note, I may just start off with a 1 or 1.5 hp single speed, with 2" and 8" contact wheels. I can upgrade to a VFD later. Greg, input from you or anyone else with a single speed grinder is appreciated.
 
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I'm not questioning that the frame itself is stronger, I'm just wondering whether that matters one bit when there are far weaker failure points on both machines. Are we really stressing the frames on these things? Serious question, I don't own one and the couple times I messed with one I wasn't analyzing it's engineering. :) It seems like most of the force involved is the spinning wheels, which should have very little actual effect on the frame, and us pressing on the belt in whatever position we're grinding. At that point, to me, the failure point is related to the arm, the platen, wheel, whatever, not the frames. The super beefy frame can't hurt, but unless the frame is your failure point or helps the failure along it isn't part of the equation. It's like a fishing pole with super beefy grip areas and a pistol grip hold and titanium and stainless steel reel mount... when you snap the end of it off in the car door none of that mattered.

The parts that seem like the weakest links in all of these are pretty similar across units. In many cases they're entirely interchangeable even. The heavier frame on the gib might help dampen vibration, and in that sense it certainly might help reduce the wear vibration can cause. The motor mount sure looks solid as hell too, another point where it never hurts to add strength. My only question is whether any of that really makes a difference or just makes us feel better? :) I don't think someone can go wrong with any of these machines, unless you get one that just isn't right, or have build issues. I'm just always interested in WHY for the various decisions and engineering.
 
Well, having never experienced a variable speed motor, I live in blissful ignorance. I like my fixed speed 1HP... never bogs down, even when I was hogging the 1.5" bar stock I used as a D-guard bending form.

Maybe some day I'll upgrade to variable speed... but for now, I don't need it.
 
Oh, and Remy... the spindles on the GIB are 1/2" bolts... big thick suckers. I don't consider them a weak spot at all.
 
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